Noctral

I did a test like this here: http://elitistjerks.com/showpost.php...postcount=1480

It was on test after the sword spec changes, but since it was a little over a week ago it's possible things have changed since then.

The other thing though that never made sense to me, the sword spec proc never procced any poison whatsoever, not from the mainhand or the offhand. So, a test with poisons may not be a good way to find out if your theory is correct. My guess from the results of the test is that either sword procs can't proc poisons, or for some reason sword procs from specials, or at least from shiv can't proc poisons.

 

• Aldriana

I saw that test, but you had wound poison on the OH - how could you tell if Sword Spec was refreshing it?

 

Andeh

If what you're saying is true, you should be able to get double Combat Potency procs off a Shiv that procs SS. The test Noctral is suggesting would be ideal for this, but the poisons aren't important. Face away enough so that you can still Shiv, but not get white hits. Leave a few sec in between Shivs to account for any log lag. It will probably take a long time, but this is a test where you only need 1 case to prove your theory correct. Unfortunately, you can't really disprove it.

 

• Aldriana

It's true, but you might as well test both at the same time, right? It's not like it costs you much to throw an IP on for the test.

 

Noctral

You don't need to see if wound poison is getting refreshed or not, it will always do the 66-67damage poison hit which is recorded by wws. I used wound over instant because it has a higher proc rate. There turned out to be exactly 782 wound poison hits, which was the same as the number of shivs. So, of the 42 sword spec procs I got, none could have procced a wound poison, plus the fact that a deadly poison never hit the mob means no mainhand poisons hit either.

 

• Aldriana

Ah, point. I forgot that wound poison also does damage.

Anyway, might still be doing the test to get confirmation on the combat potency side of things.

 

Duskmourn

Perceived Weakness does only appear to proc, at mimimum, every 30 seconds. Never seen it any closer in any of my testing. So 25% chance off specials, 30 second cooldown. and this is between procs, not between weakness buff timers. So you could possibly have Perceived Weakness up for 30 seconds/minute, but not likely. Warp Spring does appear to be much more attractive.
03:14:41 You gain Perceived Weakness.
03:15:13 You gain Perceived Weakness.
32 seconds was the best I could achieve.

So with the previous poster and me I think that reiterates the 30 second cooldown, and the thotbott for it shows 25% chance on abilities.

 

LiteSabre

So that gives it an approximately 25% uptime, right? For all intents and purposes, it now seems to be a 21HR 250 armor ignore trinket... so how does that stack up against things like the Tsunami Talisman, or even the Icon of Unyielding Courage?

 

Xizenta

Is surefooted adding more than ten hit at the moment for anyone else?

Friend's edgewalker longboots with this enchantment is adding 11 more hit than it should (yes, we counted the gems and socketbonus.)

 

Shakti

I currently have 243 hit rating, wearing Edgewalker Longboots with 2*4 Hit and 4 Agility gems and Surefoot enchant. They should totally give me 31 Hit rating but when I unequip them I just have 201 Hit rating. 11 more than I should loose, but if I inspect myself with SuperInspect (which doesn't count Surefoot enchant) I get 233 Hit Rating. I'm a bit confused now.

 

Sokkou

We need more data on this, could be major. However sadly, every rogue needs Cat Swiftness on Boots next patch, unless you have 2/2 in the Assassination talent. Thundering Skyfire >... =/

 

• Aldriana

For PvP, maybe. In PvE I'm not sure how essential run speed is. 8% run speed is certainly nice, but there are very few fights where it's going to make a dps difference... and if the choice is 6 agi and that run speed or 21 hit and some snare/root resist... it's going to be hard to argue against Surefooted, IMO.

 

Graecus

There was a debate on this a while ago pre TBC... run speed vs agi to boots.

After long consideration with our guild (who was on Thaddius at the time) I bought every rogue runspeed to boots, and it was by far a fav. Sure, you can go 100% in the direction of damage, but man did that help out. I don't believe anybody changed it out for quite some time. Sometimes you just need to get places quicker.

Precision in Paradise

 

Fluke

I can't imagine ever not having run speed in some form. Once you get used to it you can't go back.

 

derelictfrog

On the surefooted bug:

With edgewalker and surefooted - 270
Rapscalion (no hit) - 235
Shifiting sands (no hit)- 235

Which is right (my edgewalker with enchant and gems have 35 hit rating) , but when i un-equip edgewalker i get 220 hit, then once its at 220 i can put the other 2 back on (and swap them around etc) with it staying at 220, but put edgewalker back on and swap back to another pair and hit goes back to 235 o_0

So im not getting more.. just changing items around is giving me weird numbers...

Enjoy

 

Shakti

Well I did a bit of testing, and came to the conclusion that when i remove my Edgewalker Longboots i loose 11 more Hit in my Character Screen than i should. People inspecting me still get the correct Hit numbers from the rest of the gear. Now if i remove all of my gear I come out with -11 Hit rating in the Character Screen, but it goes back to 0 when I relog. Putting on all my equipment it sums up correctly to my total Hit value, but again if I unequip the boots i loose 11 more Hit than i should.

 

sp00n

Ayeee, back to Are stats in character window accurate?
Seems to be the same nasty bug here.

 

rj

Well, I did this for about 20 mins straight and I got neither a double potency proc nor a double offhand poison proc. Neither one.

http://savefile.info/file/995/Shiv-txt.html

Maybe I missed it, but like I said, I didn't see any double potency nor any double wounding.

SpiteBlade//Slicer combo, 16/45/0 spec, had dragonspine equipped thus the haste procs. Instant poison on mainhand and wounding on offhand.

 

Solmyr77

Sorry, but I found my mistake after posting this, the usual process..

However I might still name the error in cells e4 and g4 in the buffed dps sheet of version 2.2.4l. It shouldn't list the min Backstab damage as higher than both the average and the max damage.

 

mih

2.2.4n
http://www.savefile.com/files/740336

added
Hyjal/Black Temple items

changed
Swiftsteel Bludgeon

 

Opheliae

question for the damage sheet / combat mechanic gurus ...

Is a rupture's dot static, or will it react to changes in your AP mid duration? Watching mongoose procs and AP buffs timeout ultimately makes me question 'when' we should be applying the rupture. Is there hidden value in making sure you refresh that dot while all your buffs are still active?

 

tetracycloide

Unless rupture is different from other debuff effects the general rule of thumb is:

1. Buffs applied to yourself will effect rupture for it's entire duration based on what buffs are active when the rupture is applied. If they fade from you half way through the rupture damage will not change.

2. Debuffs applied to the mob will effect rupture only as long as they are up and will change the damage of your rupture ticks mid duration.

So the answer to your question is, yes rupture's dot is static in the sense that changes in your AP mid duration will not change the damage. Yes there is a 'hidden' value in trying to refresh rupture with as many temporary self buffs up as possible.

As far as raid situations go you will likely loose far more dps then you gain waiting for a mongoose proc, or any other proc for that matter, just to get a rupture off. However, this should change the way you deal with predictable self buffs such as find weakness (if you have it) and 'on use' trinkets.

 

Cel

The nature of Combo cycles are such that you can't really wait for procs and such. If you get to the point where you have a lot of FW downtime, or at the very worst, lost energy, it's likely not helping you at all. Use trinkets are about the extent of things you can control to boost your Rupture damage without saving up energy prior to using a finisher. In the end, I'm not sure if the damage lost from holding a finisher would make up for the damage gained from being able to tack a finisher on at the end of a FW buff.

"There is much pleasure to be gained from useless knowledge." - Bertrand Russell

Alpha is recruiting... go go.

 

Opheliae

thanks for the response, guys - appreciate it. static it is.

yeah, i agree there's no sense in holding off on on rupture as a rule (like waiting for mongoose); but since timers are organic, and trinkets can be used on demand - i can use the 'static rupture' info to help me lean towards a fuller AP rupture when it's available. thanks again.

 

jaske

Quick question. What was the conclusion of the Glad Slicer vs Latro's in 2.1 debate, which is better? I have the points for a mainhand (thus obviously an offhand) but i would like to save them for an easy season 2 weapon if its not going to be a big change in dps.