The data taken in the weapon skill thread, while not sufficient to get exact answers, strikes me as sufficient to say that Mace Spec, the talent, is underpowered in PvE. You're welcome to disagree, but the best estimate is that you're paying 5 talent points for something on the order of .5% crit, 1.5% hit, and -1% enemy dodge, which means, point for point, it's less than half as good as precision - aka, a bit on the weak side.

That's fine. I was referring to "Mace Spec" the talent, not "Mace Spec" the build. It's entirely possible that the itemization differences are sufficient for Combat Maces to compete, and I wasn't commenting on that. Although I must confess that I would be surprised if that were the case.

The context of the original question was specifically referencing the smithing specialization hammers.

I drank a Flask of Relentless, added 20 Str and 20 Agl scrolls, a 300 armor scroll and Spirit just to see if they all stacked. I was very happy. Buying out all the Str, Agl and Protection Scrolls over the last few weeks was a good investment.

I'm still getting:

[You] Melee Crit [Mob] for X damage*
[You] Sword Specialization [Mob] for X damage
[You] Combat Potency: [You] +15 energy
[You] Combat Potency: [You] +15 energy

So is Sword Specialization using the MH as the swing, but counting it as an OH-attack giving the chance of a double CP proc?

And I was responding to the specific comment

which is referring to the specific merit of the talent.

Ok, I did some testing of Romulo's Poison vial and I am getting right around a 2% proc rate. That was over 2000 swings.

Is this formula in the spreadsheet correct based on a 2% proc rate?

Spiteblade and Quickblade. 2.7 and 1.5, autoattack only (they do have mongoose and I did have dragonspine equipped trophy though). This was tested on live today. 2% to 2.5% proc rate based on number of procs/hits. 50 procs in 2170 hits.

The formula is based on a screenshot postet ~10 pages before -> 1,4ppm was shown there

so, for a rogue, which of the 3 is best

Swift Skyfire http://www.wowhead.com/?item=25894
Relentless Earthstorm http://www.wowhead.com/?item=32409
Thundering Skyfire http://www.wowhead.com/?item=32410

Per the spreadsheet, cell AB2 on the Gear_Buffs sheet - is 85% about the amount for a boss with 5 sunders on it? I'm not sure how to calculate a number to put in this cell or to leave it as is.

???

Dumb question time: What does force shiv do?

But is this really a PPM based item? Seems to me it is a flat % chance on hit. About 2-2.5% chance on hit from my testing. Wouldn't modeling it based on percent per hit be better than a PPM model?

In some (admittedly brief) testing in blasted lands, with a MH weapon and no OH, I got the folllowing proc counts:

Warp Splinter's Thorn (1.3 speed): 899 attacks, 24 procs.
Demonblood Eviscerator (2.6 speed): 377 attacks, 24 procs.

So, a weapon that his twice as fast procs roughly half as often. Sounds like PPM to me.

Well, in the end I decided to go with a Seal Fate/Prep build rather than a combat build, since I'm still doing 5-man stuff much more than raiding. That means I'm looking for lots of combo points fast, rather than maximum energy efficiency. I'll revisit the question of a max raid DPS build with the smithing hammers in a couple of months.

Right now I can't argue with the utility of things like imp. kidney shot and imp expose armor (I spend ~85% of my time with pally or bear tanks). Still toying with using Hemo, mainly because once you go for Prep, then Hemo is only 1 point while imp SS is 2. Also it scales better with AP and the BS weapon is just about slow enough.

Right now I'm 39/0/22 - I imagine there's lots of room for improvement, but I like the feel of the build. You'll be pleased to know I finally gave up on making Envenom into a useful ability. Just takes too many talent points to make it worth it, and then you're screwed on poison-immune mobs.

http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report=h354tc2gyam6w&a=22
http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report=ohofxssttk6wi&a=12
http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report...=6263,6763&a=5
http://www.juggernautguild.com/wws/2...307/grimx.html
http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report=h354tc2gyam6w&a=18
http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report=ohofxssttk6wi&a=3
http://www.juggernautguild.com/wws/2...07/kamien.html

Judging by the averege of these 7 rogues vs bosses it looks more like ~24-25% glancing rather than 20%.

Has the no-Swing Timer reset for Sword Spec be modeled in to the later 2.2.5 version, er is that still in process?

Forces the spreadsheet into working out your dps if you use Shiv as your combo point builder.
It came up a few weeks ago, it's still a little buggy but I've been neck deep in trying to sort out my new house so not can back to finish it.

Not sure if one of the other contributors managed to get around to it.
It's not horrendously wrong, just not as accurate as it could be.

What are the current numbers for Weapon Skill?

For instance: 2/2 Weapon Expertise gives you 10 Weapon Skill/~39 Dagger, Fist and Sword Skill. The Grips of the Deftness give you +15 Dag, Fist, Sword.

Based on the number I have for Weapon Skill the Grips of the Deftness come out significantly better then the Netherbalde Gloves in Damage, however if you use the former numbers the Netherblade Gloves come out slightly better then the GotD.

What is Blizzards explanation of the Weapon Skill now, and what are the real numbers. As I have found in the past what they say and what the actual mechanics are seem to be 2 totally different things.

Thanks

-Flat

Sealed Fist?

I am trying to long-hand out the math for figuring out the effect of Seal Fate in a 30/31 fist build. I'm lucky (if having crap luck for 5man and Kara drops is 'lucky') in that at least I have round, small numbers to death with for AP and crit.

Has anyone else made any progress on this? I'm using this this build as a base, and attempting to mash out what another 30% of Available Combat points, and a CB Eviserate will do for me over the course of a two minute fight.

Math isn't my strong suit. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Grips of deftness give you +15 sword, mace, dagger skill.

Ooops....meant mace, just put fist...doh!