That sounds a tad broken to me. Peculiar to say the least. Regardless, why would you give yourself less chances to proc an extra attack by using only one sword? Especially when considering the option to purchase another arena weapon.
That's been the way all 'extra attack' mechanics have worked since WoW was released. The only exception to that has been WF weapon when used on a shaman OH, and that has only implemented in 2.0.1. If it was unintended, it most likely would have been 'fixed' then.
I have a quick spreadsheet question, sorry if its off the current topic. Looking at the cycles on the spreadsheet, what does that 'snd cut' mean? I am aware SNd = slice and dice, but for instance, for my recommended cycle its '1 point SNd, 5 point rupture snd cut'.
Just wanting a quick clarification on this
Basically, the 'SnD cut' cycles are trying to maintain 100% rupture uptime. So what you will end up doing, is after a 5cp rupture, if ruthlessness procs and there is still time left on SnD, you refresh SnD immediately without waiting for it to expire, then resume building cps for rupture and refresh it as soon as the last tic goes off.
Why would it be strange for only 1 set of procs to be less than 1.2 seconds apart? WF can only proc off a MH attack, so unless your MH attack speed was under 1.2 seconds, or you were timing your SS/BS to land at the same time as a MH swing, 1.2 seconds like a reasonable amount of time between procs on consecutive swings.
As for the sword spec procs, the time has the potential to be shorter between them due to the fact that you're also getting procs from your OH. (assuming you have a sword in your OH)
Eh.. "ok".. you don't find it odd that some hours of SS spammage, i.e emptying a 100 energy bar as fast as the GCD allows and repeated use of AR, with a 20% chance on hit MH proc doesn't produce more than a single proc below 1200 ms?
So, just to verify that I hadn't gone completely bonkers I took to the blasted lands, using instant poison only on MH (20% proc chance). A short 10 minutes and 128 procs later I got 24 procs below 1200 ms. And no, it's not my sword specialization that makes the difference. (Log)
6/7 23:46:22.296 Your Sinister Strike crits Servant of Allistarj for 1391.
6/7 23:46:22.296 Your Instant Poison VII hits Servant of Allistarj for 201 Nature damage.
6/7 23:46:22.312 You hit Servant of Allistarj for 469.
6/7 23:46:22.781 Your Instant Poison VII hits Servant of Allistarj for 193 Nature damage.
There's no cooldown on WF totem procs - I had back to back procs last night, it was definitely less than 3 seconds between them.
If there is no inner cooldown on totems, does the possibility of procs on procs exist? And with Sword procs being white will this also be able to trigger WF?
Another thing is if it does not have a cooldown, and being chance on hit and not PPM, does it make WF a better choice for dagger type rogues above GOA? Does this also mean that using a fast weapon with the totem that it can/may be even be more beneficial than a slower weapon?
It's been better than GoA for a long time as far as I know. Pre-TBC.
I dont know, almost all shammies I talked says , NO totem has 3 sec CD and that GOA > WF for dagger, doesn't anyone have a combat log showing that there aint a 3 sec CD? And with no CD, what the advantages DPS wise is over GOA? And without? They say that the shaman forum tested it a while back back couldn't find anything, saying that with CD , the number of increased procs with a faster weapon is negligible, rendering it pretty useless for dagger rogues.... I have a difficult time convincing them about WF totem, as I have no proof of combat logs and/or data which supports that WF is in fact better than GOA.
Tried looking at spreadsheet, but there are some issued regarding the implementation of WF and have no data to compare the two DPS wise. I need the following information plz from someone to work out the advantages of daggers vs swords for WF :
1) Does anyone have a combat log or any proof of the no cooldown on windfury totems?
2) Is there standard numbers or any concrete way to determine the amount of SS and BS per min assuming one is combat specced (with combat potency) and hit capped and 100% S&D uptime using :
Swords 2.6 MH and 1.4/1.5 speed offhands and
dagger 1.8 MH and 1.4/1.3 speed offhands.
Just want to make sure can one for insance add the information from #1938 to a analysis of the amount of specials that can proc WF in that time for SS and BS respectively? Or is there some other factors one should add into WF calculation to compare slow vs fast weapons?
Last edited by feanor831 : 06/08/07 at 6:53 AM.
Reason: grammer
So is there any way for a cd rogue to keep up with an equal/similar geared sword rogue at the moment (or after 2.1.2)? I just can't seem to find a way (on paper). Which doesn't make sense to me wit the positional requirements of backstab. I don't argue with numbers and I'll go with whatever benefits the raid most, but I've always been a big fan of daggers. Seems odd that I can do more damage with an unenchanted spite/latro than I can with a mongoose malch and a good 1.3 oh. /boggle
I have version 2.2.3 of the spreadsheet and I was wondering if this is the most recent release. Bleedo's site seems to be down at the moment and I have been unable to find a different link to the download. The spreadsheet I have has several items with the outdated stats, prior to the patch that boosted many epics. I would greatly appreciate any insight towards this dilemma.
I tested swordspec on PTR today and I am quite sure it still deals main hand damage, no matter what.
I manually checked first ~12 swordspecs, cba to do more. All of them were MH hit. If there was more hits with OH hit included, it was an OH hit in log ~1.5sec before, which was the speed of an offhand. Add +- 0.2 by lag factor here.
Gear used had NO haste stuff (removed thundering skyfire, removed mongoose, no slice & dice, blade flurry, or what so ever..) and i used only static trinkets. Gladiator MH (2.6) and gladiator OH (1.5).
Log can be seen here if anyone cares to check out the rest of sword specs.click
Many rogues whined about new change. But since it's white damage now, it can trigger every single trinket, proc, windfury, poison, .. you name it. The only actuall downside is glancing penalty (which is reduced since 2.1) and miss rate, which is hardly noticeable with my gear. Over all I dont see it as a nerf in PvE at all, but rather as a change of mechanism and I'm fine with it. I have to admit though, PvP rogues with 80 hit rating will definatelly suffer from that change.
Just checked out 2.2.6 coming from 2.2.4 and it seems to take about 240 away from the DPS measurement i was getting in 2.2.4 - what's up doc? Have some pretty serious errors in 2.2.4 been ironed out or is this new 2.2.6 as posted above just plain wrong?
Just checked out 2.2.6 coming from 2.2.4 and it seems to take about 240 away from the DPS measurement i was getting in 2.2.4 - what's up doc? Have some pretty serious errors in 2.2.4 been ironed out or is this new 2.2.6 as posted above just plain wrong?
Based on paper's log, it doesn't look like offhand sword spec hits proc CPOT, and they use the OH damage range. I also didn't see any sword spec hits proccing more sword spec hits, but it was a quick glance.
I couldn't really think of where to post this, so I decided to throw it up on this thread despite it not being sheet related, since the whole thread is pretty much about rogue DPS anyway. :P
Question specifically about the Kael'thas encounter:
Is it better for CDaggers to OH the legendary sword, or just stick with your normal OH dagger? I just fell in love with the haste effect the sword has, it just doesn't seem like there's that much difference between the ~120 DPS but slow (but with a haste proc the dagger doesn't have) sword to the Searing Sunblade I normally use.
I couldn't really think of where to post this, so I decided to throw it up on this thread despite it not being sheet related, since the whole thread is pretty much about rogue DPS anyway. :P
Question specifically about the Kael'thas encounter:
Is it better for CDaggers to OH the legendary sword, or just stick with your normal OH dagger? I just fell in love with the haste effect the sword has, it just doesn't seem like there's that much difference between the ~120 DPS but slow (but with a haste proc the dagger doesn't have) sword to the Searing Sunblade I normally use.
No, it's not worth it because the weapons will not proc in your offhand.
No, it's not worth it because the weapons will not proc in your offhand.
Eh? No, I'm very sure that the haste buff was up all (or nearly all) of the time with the sword in my OH. I distinctly remember it because I was Gazed and had a sprint effect up while my sprint was on CD. The legendary sword/dagger does proc in the OH; though having not MHed the sword or OHed the dagger I have no idea how doing so effects the frequency of the proc.
Mih, you should read reply #2020 by Siq, there are numerous errors in your sheet Mih and Siq also changed sword spec.
I'de suggest using Siq's sheet.
Buffed DPS NextStat values in Siq's sheet are fubar'd. The calculations are fairly complicated and I haven't been able to figure out where it's getting messed up.
I also noticed that the Xs/5e sc cycles are incorrect on all recent sheet revisions. Cells D51 through D55 are using Eviscerate values instead of SnD values when calculating the adjusted SnD damage portion of the cycle.
06/07/07, 6:15 PM
.gif "Holy See (Vatican City State)")
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