marty

The lack of trinket itemization, just speaking dps here, is stupid. Blizzard should offer two forms of trinket upgrades: Quest that can be upgraded and drops. Drops being superior because they would more than likely be more difficult to aquire, but the quest items being something that you would spend the time to finish. I feel damn lucky to have gotten a DFT after my guild started doing BWL again. I don't know why blizzard offers so few upgrades for those two spots from BRD -> Naxx.

 

Zoro

Yup, that's what I did. Though I was using ghosties.
Then equipped FoF main hand, then FoF off.
Then scrapper main, then scrapper off.

And bingo, normalised, seperate rolls for each strike.

 

Kobal

Will there be a new version out soon that does include the changes to weapon skill and the new talents? Patch 2.0 is coming soon, and I need to know what gear to shoot for.

I am entirely too dependent on this spreadsheet... :)

 

koaschten

well as there is absolutely no SAFE data on the new way +skill works, i doubt it will be implemented too soon. all i can suggest you is having a look at combat potency for combat builds and a really fast, high dps offhand like iblis ;)

 

Silentness

That sucks everybody and their mom has a DFT in my old guild. :(

Shoot I even passed on the first DFT because I was content with HoJ/BHB.

 

Gort

Truth.


Logged into Beta. Specced 11/40. Went and smacked a hellboar or something when I got to Outlands, 'cause that's what you do. Seriously almost fell over when I saw the sheer amount of procs I was seeing. That plus 4pc BS is a little crazy, and part of me is really, really looking forward to seeing what it does in a sustained Patchwerk-style encounter.

 

koaschten

just figure in http://www.thottbot.com/beta?i=3118 or http://www.thottbot.com/beta?i=15381 as an offhand :D
easily accessable at lvl 64/70 from 5mans

 

Un

Has anyone tested the post 2.0 Hand of Justice to determine if at lvl60 it still gives 2% chance for an extra hit (or, more precisely, 2% chance to reset auto-attack swing)?

 

koaschten

no chance i test that with lvl 60, but i can test that at lvl 70 vs lvl 70 mobs ;)

 

pf

Just assume it does. It would require so much parsing to actually be 100% sure and since noone will use it at 70, who cares. And if you wanted to calculate its worth at 70, compare it to how crit scales down from 60->70.

 

Un

Alrighty. Mostly I just wanted to see if anyone had noticed it getting nerfed in the 2.0 patch when it's proc gets changed to the very vague "Chance on melee hit to gain 1 extra attack." I'm a little worried Blizz will give it effectively a 1% chance for an extra attack (at lvl 60) since it's such a notoriously good trinket as is - but I'm probably just getting paranoid for no reason :p

 

pf

The trinket is notoriously overrated. Try comparing it to blackhands breadth sometime. Its not much better (and actually worse for top-end dagger builds).

 

GrizleyCQ

For a combat rogue BB -> HoJ is a bigger upgrade than a lot of the 2.5->3.0 upgrades.

Its pretty small for a hemo build though, comes out to about 1.5 dps.

This is with decent to good nax level gear.

 

Un

Yup, with 15/31/5, 3/5 DD, the rest BF + Muggers Belt, and Pugio + DFB, HoJ is giving me a 3dps boost over BhB, which is right around the dps boost I usually get upgrading from one tier to another (ie, a signifigant upgrade).

But it's good to know BhB pulls ahead for dagger rogues in cutting edge gear setups, I'll have to keep an eye on this as we progress through Naxx - although I doubt I'll hit that threshold before the xpac.

 

pf

I'm showing BhB edging out HoJ at your gear lvl. And by no means will I ever see a 1.5 increase with HoJ. Anyone who does should set sword spec to 0/5 and try again. Anyway, the difference between bhb->dft is over 10dps. That is a solid upgrade (about like bf boots->bs boots). And this is with points wasted towards dodge too. The main problem isnt that hoj is so great (because it isnt), its that it isnt replaceable till naxx (bhb or hoj + dft is the best combo), and this is due to an itemization gap, not anything else.

 

Un

Ok, I reset my spreadsheet and am now finding HoJ to be less than a ~1 dps upgrade from BhB with my normal raid buffs (and with DFT in the other trinket slot). Thanks for the tip.

 

Maddness

Not really sure where to post, but this seems the most relevant place;

Not being an excel expert by any means, but is it possible to update the sheet to use Combat Ratings, include the 41pt Talents, and give the option of Level 70 ?

This is partly out of interest to see how the new talent specs would compare, and to get an initial look at what the level 70 Rogue will currently perform like.

http://hosted.filefront.com/rroguee

 

Drakonious

I'm sure they're working on it, but remember not all the talents/combat skill ratings/tweaks are set in stone yet, so I wouldn't expect them to have it updated for BC until a couple weeks after release. Also a lot of their data comes from in game testing, and it's a little hard to parse in game data until you're a level 70 fighting against a boss level mob. Some things can be assumed, but we'll still have to see.

On that note, a good chunk of loot for available for level 70 rogues is still unknown, and once we can see all the gear available to us it will be easier for them to start plugging in that data and see how certain things act. Just a for instance, but say Combat Potency doesn't proc off of offhand glances, that would significantly change how their spreadsheet works. =D

 

Maddness

I'm going 2:1 odds that will be true knowing Blizzard :p

Just getting a look at how the new talents stack up would be nice, see how the 11/40/0 build stacks up against 19/32 for example.

http://hosted.filefront.com/rroguee

 

Drakonious

Agreed. I think the concensus is that 11/40 blows 19/32 out of the water from what I hear from beta testers.

 

koaschten

here we go, Rogue, Lvl 70, Fist specced, HoJ equipped
vs Cabal Agents lvl 68-70 auto-attack ONLY

5000 melee hits, 376 misses (from behind as the mobs are tanked by NPC) ;)
54 HoJ procs according to sw_stats TBC (and yes, i forgot again to /combatlog :( )
-> breakdown for 100 hits -> 54/50
-> HoJ proc-chance 1.08%

 

Un

Hehe, cheers Koaschten :)

If it's proc chance is 1.08% at lvl 70, than I'm guessing it's essentially the same trinket at lvl 60 in 2.0 as it is in 1.13.

Thanks for testing that.

 

grine

I'm messing around with my gear atm, and I'm finding the BF 3-piece bonus to be insane...

Feels wrong to go with BF bracers over BS to gain like 7 DPS unbuffed, is this really the case?

This is with instant poison on CHT/Pugio and bracers as my first BS piece.

 

probiscus

IMO the thing that makes BF bracers so hot (for a combat build) is the +hit. For something like a combat dagger build I'd say the hit is more important than the crit from BS.

Additionally, realize that bracers are a relatively shitty upgrade, as compared to something like chest/legs/head - which are alloted "more" of the stat allocation for that ilvl item.

This is part of the reason why I still wear ZG chest/bracers. The chest is approximately equivalent to NS and while BF would be a nice upgrade, I've never seen it drop and my guild isn't killing c'thun so DD isn't really an option either. That, combined with the 20 AP bonus of the bracers + chest which isn't so bad.

 

grine

I've been usin ZG Chest+Bracers too, just got BF last BWL and BS today on Naxx. Currently have 10% hit from gear, but I guess more is always good.