nilme

If you mean that "Equip: <Aura of the Crusade>" the item has on thottbot, it's just the non-visible aura you get once you equip the item, which gives you a permanent buff that increases your spell power // attack power by blablablabla...

Nothing to do with group/paladin auras

 

Itzelsnitch

I've been a long time lurker, and today I recently picked up The Bladefist. I am very sure that the average haste which the proc gives is above the current 36 haste which is entered into the spreadsheet - in a single SL heroic run I have seen it refresh itself multiple times (that is, seen chains of two several times, none or few tripple-chains).
A user on WoWHead reported a PPM of 3, which I am close to actually believing. I will run some tests tomorrow, but until then it should at least be know that the average haste which is gives is closer to 60 than 36.

I already searched through the thread, and it seems like that the information so far has been sparse - probably due to the relative rarity of this weapon. Hope we can shed some light upon it.

To give a relative value of this weapon, I put the average haste up to 60 and compared it to my season 1 fist. It went from 666/1435 to 666/1442.
Current stats include: 30%crit/235hit/1480ap with Bloodlust Brooch, Hourglass, and Thundering Skyfire Diamond. That is with Glad MH stats.

I'll be keeping it for when 1 haste become 2 agi or so due to capped hit and high crit. Eventually it can replace my season2 weapon!

 

Cyn

I am also very interest in this, i also raid as combat mutilate, and the proc rate of this set bonus has the potential to just make this spec. However, if it's a terrible proc rate, then i'll be better off going brigand/stranger or something instead

 

Grunge

With season 2 around the corner, I'm beginning to ponder if I should decide on going Combat Swords over Combat Mutilate. The spreadsheet tells me that I would win ~300dps by doing so. However seeing how the spreadsheet values Seal Fate as a 15 dps increase for mutilate so I'm a bit skeptical. Which might be a bit undervalued imo.
Also has anyone looked into the mutilate cycles recently (with 2piece netherblade etc.)?
So is mutilate doomed to fail as a viable (alternative) raiding spec or is it just the spreadsheet that underestimates it?

Fans glory to the Gladiators,
Gods glory to the Heroes.

 

Cyn

Mutilate is such a chaotic spec by nature, it would be incredibly hard to actually model it "accurately".

But mutilate is slowly going to fall behind, because things such as a large component of it's damage being poisons which just doesn't really scale at all, poison immune bosses, cant duel wield legendary daggers on kael >.<.

However there are fights that do give it hope, i can top dps on Vashj because mutilate can get into cycle so quick on naga's etc. The spec isn't far off being very viable, but it does need a slight damage boost in my opinion, as well as it'd be nice if find weakness satisfied the poison requirement or something to dull the pain on immune bosses.

 

Gedriis

You're correct, and my apologies. I'd missed the comment in the 'Known Issues' section. For what it's worth, a 'fix', if you could call it that, would be to edit the cell E77 as follows:

=TRUNC(SUM(E10:E75)*(1+Talents!H26/100)*(1+Talents!L17*3/100),0)

This affects the calculated DPS though, and I'm not sure if it would be accurate to the way WoW performs it's calculations.

Thanks again.

 

Necdeus

I use the Spreadsheet for a long time now. But something I'm wondering at.

I used 2.2.5a before and I updated to 2.2.7f.....what exactly has been changed, that I'm loosing more than 200 unbuffed dps, but only 20dps buffed in the 2.2.7 Versions?
Same Gear, different Sheets

 

Cyn

The first tab, labelled "Changelog", has the log, of changes.

 

Necdeus

Thanks Cyn, I know the Changelog
But there's nothing, which indicates the huge dps-loss between the 2 Sheets.

Maybe there's an issue when switching from the "default" gear to a Combat-Dagger Gear?

 

misc100

Cross post warning: I put this comment in the Gear spreadsheet when it should have been in the DPS spreadsheet. Sorry about this.

I have been using the spreadsheet for a while and found it helpful. Now that arena 2 gear is coming I wanted to find out if to get the shiv or OH mace to supplement my Dragonmaw. I tried the spreadsheet and found that the mace gave me around +5dps and the shiv almost +20dps. As a second opinion is always nice I went to Foreshadows dps calulator (http://www.pvp.net.tf/) and checked there. The result was that the two weapons were basically equal in damage output (OH mace was a fraction better).

So which one is more correct and why is the other incorrect? Its a bit disturbing to find such a difference between two dps calculators and I do not know which weapon to choose now...

 

Cyn

The change that would be causing the large DPS shift, is that the boss armor rating was revised to be somewhat higher than previously modeled

 

Baltazur

The shiv will give you more dps since its 1.4 speed compared to the bonecrackers 1.5spd, so more offhand hits for more energy regen (if you are combat specced) and more poison procs. If you then also spec weapon expertice you will gain even more from your dagger. But make sure to download the latest sheet (2.2.7f+), since there was a bug regarding mace-spec and the +weapon skill part.

Imho you got 2 different setups for Dragonmaw:
1: Dragonmaw + shiv, combat with weapon expertice.
2: Dragonmaw + bonecracker, combat without weapon expertice, you then free up 1-2 points to use in imp poison for instance.

Between these 2 setups the Shiv wins with ~8dps buffed in the sheet on my current gear.

 

misc100

Is Foreshadows dps calculator not as accurate as the dps spreadsheet? It seems to also calculate on combat potency and posion procs but still the difference being pro bonecracker.

 

Baltazur

Did you try with 2 points in weapon expertice for the shiv setup?
You loose maximum 1 point in imp or vile poison when using a shiv + weapon expertice,
and I can't see how that point could make the slower bonecracker passing the faster shiv in dps.

 

songster

Not Dragonmaw and the quickblade? Sword spec procs off a fast OH sword using Dragonmaw's damage range have got to be a good option...

I also don't see what use faster poison procs on the OH are - most OH poison procs are "wasted" by refreshing an already-refreshed DP stack. Once the stack is up and running, you only need 1 proc per 12 seconds to hold it up. So having a 1.4 speed weapon (average 1 proc per 4.2 seconds) or a 1.5 speed weapon (average 1 proc per 4.5 seconds) is utterly irrelevant.

 

misc100

I hope I am not getting the setup wrong....

In foreshadow with Shiv I have expertise & no vitality. With bonecracker I have no expertise but 2 vitality. Otherwise same talents

OH speed is 1.5 for bonecracker and 1.4 for shiv.
420s fight with primary finisher SnD, secondary Evis 4 cp.

OH white damage Bonecracker: 74642
OH white damage Shiv: 74289

If I look at the row "Total with Murder"
With Bonecracker 42148
With Shiv 42150

Too bad I can't link to the Foreshadow page with all the settings I had.

I am not saying Foreshadow is correct, just that its strange that its seems damage output seems to vary.

 

misc100

Interesting combo with quickblade and dragonmaw. Tried that in the dps calculators and there seems to be an improvement in damage output over bonecracker and shiv.

Mace spec gives among other 6% stun. Does that double when wielding two maces since it says "... with A mace"? Ie 12% stun?

Starting to get a little OT but we will get back to the thread's main theme

 

Baltazur

Guess thats what makes the difference. When I compared, both specs had vitality.

 

Baltazur

Yeah, dragonmaw and quickblade is an interesting combo.

Hmmm, not quite sure on the faster offhand poison procs though.
Does that mean that using imp poison is a waste too?
Thats not how its modelled in the sheet.

 

◊ Sarutobi

A faster OH wouldn't really be for more poison procs, moreso for the increased combat potency procs. I believe it was estimated earlier in this thread that .1 speed on OH was equivalent to ~10 weapon DPS.

 

misc100

Using Foreshadow I tried his version on poison proc.

Deadly OH, Instant MH.

30 second fight
Vile/Improved points Total damage
5/0 3400
0/5 3564
4/1 3488
1/4 3570 <Leader
3/2 3501
2/3 3508

420 second fight
5/0 51804
0/5 50790
4/1 51780
1/4 51155
3/2 52844 <Leader
2/3 51390

A 3/2 talent choice may from this seems optimal given most end-game fights e.g. farming, heroics, raiding. Seems like Vile > Imp but not by much.

Does this give any useful feedback to the spreadsheet design?

 

Kapuras

I believe the haste effect of the Dragonspine Trophy isn't really well modelled in the sheet 2.2.7e

Today my testings in the blasted land on Servants of Razelikh show with

277 hit rating, 366 weapon skill and as weapons

i choose for MH

Rondel
One-Hand Dagger
27 - 50 Damage Speed 1.60
(24.1 damage per second)
Durability 55 / 55
Requires Level 39


anf for OH

Rondel
One-Hand Dagger
27 - 50 Damage Speed 1.60
(24.1 damage per second)
Durability 55 / 55
Requires Level 39

or

Black Rose
Held In Off-hand

I run 4 Tests, each over 26 minutes and 40 seconds, to get at least a minimum of 1k white hits with the mainhand.


The results are:

1. Rondel+Black Rose only white hits



Here i got 20 procs without any selfrefreshing procc.


2. Rondel+Rondel only white hits



The result from Procwatch is wrong, because it's only count new procs and no selfrefreshing procs, because they aren't show in the combatlog

I've got 41 dragonspine trophy procs and 14 selfrefreshing procs. One time 3 procs in a row. The longest selfrefreshing haste buff was something about 25 seconds.


3. Rondel+Roses with Sinister Strike / SnD / BF / AR



Also her Procwatch only counts 34 procs, but in reality i got 34 procs and 16 selfrefreshing procs.

4. Rondel+Rondel with Sinister Strike / SnD / BF /AR



Same here. I got 45 dragonspine trophy procs and 36 selfrefreshing procs.





So I believe the modelled 90 haste bonus from dragonspine trophy is something to low.

The last Test without selfrefreshing procs:

45 procs* 325 haste * 10 seconds / ( 60 * 26,67 minutes) = 91,38 haste

This also shows the spreadsheet.

but

when only a selfrefshing procs gives 2 seconds more, then this mean:

45 procs* 325 haste * 10 seconds / ( 60 * 26,67 minutes) + 36 *325 haste * 2 / (60*26,67 minutes) = 106 haste.

Also the dragonspine trophy will gives more passive haste, when you have Mongoose Enchant on your weapons and with the passive haste effects on Leatheritems from Hyjal/Black Temple this trinket gets stronger and stronger.


PS: Damn I forgot to parse my combatlog, so at the moment i can't count what the effect of selfrefreshing procs are.

 

mih

in all your tests its ~1,5ppm -> 325*10/60*1,5 = 81,25 Haste

i test it with gladiator slicer/quickblade + dual mongoose + thundering skayfire diamond and its 1,6-1,7ppm -> 325*10/60*1,7 = 92 Haste

 

Kapuras

The problem is, that procwatch doesn't count "haste" refreshing procs, so the ppm from procwatch is wrong.

Because Procwatch doesn't show the right number of procs. I know this, because i was writting every visual proc from dragonspine trophy on a sheet on paper.

Try No. 1. : Procwatch and my noticed number of procs shows the same number,

Try No 2. : Procwatch shows a different number of procs, only 41 instead of 55,

Try No 3. : Procwatch shows a different number of procs, only 34 instead of 50

Try No 4. : Procwatch shows a different number of procs, only 45 instead of 81.


So with my calculation i don't get a ~1,5 ppm or i'm thinking totally wrong

 

Zyz

Deathmantle 4pc

Auto attacks on the servants in the blasted lands
+ Dragonspine Trophy
+ Haste meta gem

Did a few shivs to gain cp and test out the actual bonus



6/13 17:34:35.046 You gain Coup de Grace.
6/13 17:34:57.671 You gain Coup de Grace.

[top] 22.625 sec

6/13 17:36:09.906 You gain Coup de Grace.
6/13 17:36:45.609 You gain Coup de Grace.

35.703 sec

doesn't seem to have any internal cooldown