Rogue DPS Spreadsheet - Page 95

MasterDinadan · 05/06/07, 5:28 AM

Please add Ravager Dog to the buff list. It doesn't stack with Grilled Mudfish / Warp Burger, but is often a better buff and certainly worth being represented on the spreadsheet.

Zandig · 05/06/07, 1:20 PM

I didn't see this posted, so I thought I'd throw this out there. It looks like the Netherblade shoulders have gotten their +hit back. The 10 dodge rating has been changed back to 10 hit rating. This makes me a happ(y/ier) rogue.

Also...looks like I better start farming those heroic badges again. The heroic helm is definitively better than tier 4, the searing sunblade is now a likely upgrade from the gladiator's shiv, and the heroic neck is now definitively better than the worgen claw neck.

Sokkou · 05/06/07, 1:49 PM

The entire spreadsheet is likely going to need updated soon when the new PTR build goes live on Monday, with the remaining 2/3 of level 70 epics being buffed.

By the way, anyone got an idea on the proc rate of http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29962

Rethan · 05/06/07, 1:49 PM

I realize that everyone always says to "use the spreadsheet". My question is however, is there a concensus for combat builds what the magic number for hit rating is? I'm sitting at 293(298 after 2.1 item buffs) and I could easily socket the last bit to 308. My DPS is generally top 2 in my guild considering suboptimal group compositions and the nature of the fights. The spread sheet tells me that if I change out my glinting noble topaz(4hit/4agi) in the sockets on my gear for delicate living rubies(8agi) that I'm gaining spreadsheet DPS.

Edit: The last GNT in my boots changed to a ruby was a DPS downgrade due to the loss of 7hit for 4agility. Eitherway it is a difference of 5dps unbuffed to dump all the hit rating for more agility even losing the socket bonus on 3 items. With combat potency, never missing still seems better but I have no measure of math knowledge to model or decipher this spreadsheet myself.

koaschten · 05/06/07, 4:45 PM

Originally Posted by Sokkou

The entire spreadsheet is likely going to need updated soon when the new PTR build goes live on Monday, with the remaining 2/3 of level 70 epics being buffed.

By the way, anyone got an idea on the proc rate of http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29962

i'll have our fury warrior to do some statistic mob bashing .. he got the rogue slot on our astromancer kill over a rogue due to "superior ae abilities".

Lodfish · 05/07/07, 12:55 PM

Been a while since I posted in this thread, and I did a search so I'm sorry if i missed it.

I punched in my current gear, with a couple weapon upgrades (Talon of Azshara & compared the new Searing Sunblade/Gladiator's Shiv/Gladiator's Quickblade)

I've already seen how just a couple tenths of speed on OH can make a big dps difference. I was a little surprised to see that Sunblade is better than the quickblade even without Dagger Spec.

Anyway, my actual question. The optimal Cycle shows 1s/5r snd cut for me, and I'm wondering what the "snd cut" means? On the unbuffed cycles page i see 1s/5r on there as well, so there must be some difference, I just can't find what it is.

• gwystyl · 05/07/07, 1:36 PM

"Cut" means you don't wait out your SnD timer before you refresh it. The 1s/5r "cut" cycle is more about keeping 100% Rupture uptime.

You'll only see that as a result with the 2/5 NB bonus, I believe, which allows you a 17.4s SnD with 1 CP. That's enough time, assuming good ComPot procs, to get a 5CP Rupture up which requires 16s.

Once you have your 5r going, if Ruthlessness procs and you get your free CP, you immediately refresh SnD, you don't wait it out. Otherwise, you SS to grab CP and start SnD, again with no waiting on your part.

Lodfish · 05/07/07, 1:46 PM

Originally Posted by gwystyl

"Cut" means you don't wait out your SnD timer before you refresh it. The 1s/5r "cut" cycle is more about keeping 100% Rupture uptime.

You'll only see that as a result with the 2/5 NB bonus, I believe, which allows you a 17.4s SnD with 1 CP. That's enough time, assuming good ComPot procs, to get a 5CP Rupture up which requires 16s.

Once you have your 5r going, if Ruthlessness procs and you get your free CP, you immediately refresh SnD, you don't wait it out. Otherwise, you SS to grab CP and start SnD, again with no waiting on your part.

Interesting, thanks for the info.

now if only I could rupture Hydross or half the bosses in Karazhan.

roq · 05/07/07, 2:27 PM

Originally Posted by Rethan

I realize that everyone always says to "use the spreadsheet". My question is however, is there a concensus for combat builds what the magic number for hit rating is? I'm sitting at 293(298 after 2.1 item buffs) and I could easily socket the last bit to 308. My DPS is generally top 2 in my guild considering suboptimal group compositions and the nature of the fights. The spread sheet tells me that if I change out my glinting noble topaz(4hit/4agi) in the sockets on my gear for delicate living rubies(8agi) that I'm gaining spreadsheet DPS.

Edit: The last GNT in my boots changed to a ruby was a DPS downgrade due to the loss of 7hit for 4agility. Eitherway it is a difference of 5dps unbuffed to dump all the hit rating for more agility even losing the socket bonus on 3 items. With combat potency, never missing still seems better but I have no measure of math knowledge to model or decipher this spreadsheet myself.

I end up fixing this everytime a new spread sheet comes out. Here is a brief explination of what i do, it is located in post #1295

Originally Posted by roq

On Gear_Buffs in Cell AG, i changed, .2 to .1.
On the Unbuffed DPS sheet, i changed boss level dodge from 24.6 to 25.5

I made the changes based on the findings we had from the hit discussion a few pages ago. This also allows me not to waste alot of points in hit. I also have the New Blue Post Checked since i made the changes above.

Mo · 05/07/07, 6:14 PM

Originally Posted by Lodfish

Interesting, thanks for the info.

now if only I could rupture Hydross or half the bosses in Karazhan.

Incidentally, the same cycles do work for eviscerate, though the dps gains are minimal (on the order of 2 dps compared to a standard 5s/5e cycle). I was curious how it'd work out so I made a modded sheet with low cp s&d/evisc (cut and uncut) cycles.

If there's demand I could post it, but it's not based on the absolute newest version from here, so it's missing some more recent changes.

Flailure · 05/07/07, 9:00 PM

Originally Posted by Sokkou

The entire spreadsheet is likely going to need updated soon when the new PTR build goes live on Monday, with the remaining 2/3 of level 70 epics being buffed.

By the way, anyone got an idea on the proc rate of http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29962

Yeah Im already starting to go through and update gear on it. Is anyone taking over the spreadsheet task now that Pf has retired?

Latito · 05/08/07, 3:54 AM

Well, going back to the whole hit rating thing from a while ago.. I did some testing on those immune mobs in SMV for the quest.. kill the totems then kill the guy.. Anyways, I swung at Haalum 6207 times. Now, this'll make it a bit interesting to parse, but I was using a sword in MH (I'm dagger spec) to lvl up the last lvl of sword skill. So, for the first 3009 immune attacks and 84 misses, I had a 1.3 speed OH dagger (360 skill) and a 2.6 speed MH sword (359 skill).

After that I lvl'd and was 360 skill on both weapons.

Ended up with 148 misses, 6059 immunes. Nothing else. Attacked from behind, lvl 70.

At the time I had 245 hit rating, Precision and WeX.

If anyone wanted to test their formulas for miss rates against a lvl 70.. have at it.

exog · 05/08/07, 7:43 AM

Last thing i remember on the subject of hitrating was that with precision and weapon expertise you'd cap at ca ~307 hitrating.

I recently got Fel leather pants/boots and currently rest on a very comfortable 250 hitrating.

If the changes from mmo-champ go through too live my gear will give me frellin 323 hitrating (have maulgars helm in bank).

Until now ive valued 1agi=1hit=2ap=1crit when i choose my items, totally disregarding stamina. But now that ive capped the hit threshold im gonna have to devalue hitrating to 0 too.

So the most popular stat for raiding will now be useless for reasonably well-equipped rogues...
Not only will PVE-dps focused rogues shy away from items with stamina, but also hit-rating as it steals from dps-stat budget.

Times sure are changing.

koaschten · 05/08/07, 7:52 AM

i hopped onto the PTR and did some _short_ parsing for Tsunami Talisman and Warp-Spring Coil.

Feel free to grab the logs and disect it as you like, i just had a quick look

Tsunami Talisman
http://www.koaschten.de/wow/ptr-chan...20talisman.txt
MH Latro's Mongoose, Offhand a stylish fish, autoattack only.

hits: 267
crits: 110
procs: 12 (~9%)
(mongoose might offset the proc rate, but heck, the sample size is too small anyway)

no miss/parry/dodge occured.
funny thing, sword specc procced the warp-spring coil ...

Warp-Spring Coil
http://www.koaschten.de/wow/ptr-chan...ing%20coil.txt
MH Hope Ender Mongoose, Offhand Latro's Mongoose, all out.
hits: 738
crits: 320
ss hit: 149
ss crit: 73
evi hit: 21
evi crit: 12
sword specc hits: 53 (as warp spring can proc from it, see note on tsunami talisman log)
sword specc crits: 17
no miss/parry/dodge occured.

Tsunami Procs: 22 (19% WTF) (internal cooldown 45 seconds after checking the log)
Warp-Spring Procs: 26 (12,5%) (can chain proc i assume, had power gains below 20sec distance)

In Action Screenshot (left to right: Mongoose, Mongoose, Tsunami Proc, AR, SnD, Warp-Spring Proc)

Dread · 05/08/07, 9:17 AM

nevermind what i said :P

http://www.mmo-champion.com/
a bunch of updated 2.1 items