• DeeNogger

Im having trouble seeing how much mana i get back from my shadow fiend. It doesnt show up in my combat log nor in SCT yet VT does. Is there a setting im missing or... whats the deal?

I write things The word of DeeNogger

 

◊ Shalas

Isn't it mana equal to the damage it deals? That's about what it seems to be giving me.

 

• DeeNogger

I heard 2.5 * damage delt = mana returned. I have no way to prove that, however.

I write things The word of DeeNogger

 

◊ Twid

Check to see what your threshold is for power gains in SCT. I know I can set it to not spam me with "8 mana" every time I shoot something on my hunter with the Black Grasp. If that's not it, burn a bunch of mana, type /combatlog, summon your fiend, let it hit someone in a duel. Check to see what sort of messages are being displayed there.

[13:45] <kenlyric> goddammit, I wish google news had a "only real news" alert.
[13:45] <Kalman> I wish journalists had one.

On the topic of Knight Rider:
<Vontre> What is a KITT?
<Nite_Moogle> jesus christ vontre were you in a test tube until 1995?

 

Hand

You're right, it's 2.5 * damage (I've tested it).

 

Ayr

Darkness takes +dmg into consideration. This has been thoroughly tested and confirmed. (And yes, Misery and SWeaving add 1.05 and 1.15, multiplicatively, to the other classes' damage - so a warlock effectively gains a 1.2075 damage multiplier to all his shadow damage).

 

◊ Bekah

ShadowPriestBaseDamage*1.10(darkness)*1.15(weaving)*1.05(misery)*1.15(shadowform) = dmg.
ShadowPriestBaseDamage*1.10(darkness)*1.15(weaving)*1.05(misery)*1.15(shadowform)*1.1 0(CoS) = dmg w/a warlock.

There's a reason why it is simply not viable to dps as a shadow priest with less than 31 points and arguably 40 points. Our reliance on multiplicative talents to boost our dps to the level of other dps classes is unique.

 

bbrnasty

Does anyone know for sure if Shadow Affinity also decreases the aggro of the healing of VE and the +mana of VT? I don't seem to have aggro issues at all until I throw these on, then I generally pull agro pretty quickly.

 

bbrnasty

I found the answer to my question. http://www.wowwiki.com/Shadow_Affinity

 

◊ Shalas

In an attempt at figuring out an optimal cast cycle when mana is not a problem, I autogenerated the following cycle, assuming max imp MB, .3 second lag on each cast other than mind flay, and VE > VT > SW:P > SW:D > MB > MF:

(Times are when a cast starts.)

This cycle puts out 1366 DPS with Shadowpriest.com's insane gear configuration (compared to the 1314 he got assuming .2 seconds of lag), and appears to be the highest "cycle" that can be done simply by prioritizing spells.

Unfortunatly, no pattern appeared. With 5 different cooldowns and durations to deal with, perhaps it isn't possible to have a realistically maintainable cycle for optimal dps. Of course, that could be a good thing. It'd certainly be more interesting to actually have to figure out which spell to cast based on a pile of timers, and if random scrub shadowpriest can't maintain optimal dps, those who can may be able to put out overpowered dps without worrying about a nerf.

 

Ladnil

I'd be curious to see a cycle like that with inner focus + devouring plague used as well. How much dps does it really add in a fight three minutes or longer?

 

Profundido

hey, I made a 19 priest and I'm playing it in pvp now. I decided for my own a build that seems to be exact the same as Ayr here proposed 2 pages ago. Only question I ask myself now is: After getting mindflay (which I want before anything else now) and considering I already have healing focus, should I go get the discipline first or go shadow all the way and take the discipline at 63-70 ? Any help out of experience is appreciated. I'll be pvp'ing mostly

 

dedmonwakeen

Nice work! You've motivated me to get off my arse and change the simulator over to a priority-queue based spell sequence, as opposed to the fixed sequence I have now. I knew it would be better.... I was just too lazy. :(

http://code.google.com/p/simulationcraft

 

Ayr

Shadow.

 

• DeeNogger

Question about shadow priests on Moroes, moved it to the "Karazhan, Already?" thread.

I write things The word of DeeNogger

 

Thelyna

I have a guide I wrote for a guildie levelling a shadow priest, I'll PM it if you want it, however it was built with a PvE priest in mind not PvP. Although I haven't PvP'd at all on my priest, I feel as though the early points in disc (UW, martyrdom/imp shield) have more going for them than the same levels in disc for a PvE priest (which would probably be wand spec/silent resolve). Comments from someone else that PvP's with a shadow priest?

In any case, I'd recommend staying shadow until VT.

DeeNogger: "No dot timer? Get your belt off, its spanking time."

 

Profundido

yes, plz send me the guide and thx to all for that advice. About all the way to 70, how does this look ?

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=dx0GzZbZVMgtMtR0tEo

Do you see any problems with that build or things that will bug me ? Like not having focused mind or such. Any suggestions are welcome

 

• Trepidati0n

Three things I think were missed

1) VE isn't perma on a mob. It will expire on boss fights

2) How about imp Mindblast?

3) Have you looked at "clipped" SW:P cycles. While maxmizing DPM is good, maximizing DPS is better for your group in a raid setting. Since I typically cast VT and SW:P back to back I will intentially recast SW:P right after the 5 tick. By going to a clipped SW:P I can form a cycle because I can prioritize death/blast over flay/vt/pain.

Excluding VE it is VT, Pain, Death, Blast, Flay, Death, Flay --> Repeat

I sense a beautiful mod coming on ;)

EDIT: bah..keeping thinking of things.

 

Elerion

Clipping SWP is a massive loss of DPM, and a slight loss of dps. In most non-trash situations you will presumably be mana limited, so it sounds like a waste.

 

• Trepidati0n

Yeah, I just figured it out. Thinking too fast w/o enough caffine = wall. I guess the queue should be total damage / cast time (not duration) and prioritize from there. This method for queuing might helping because you could be calcuting on the fly for all spells which may help you decide to "wait" a bit for something to come up. If this kind of method done...a whack-a-mole type mod could be created

I guess Imp:SWP should nearly be mandatory for a DPS raid priest.

 

◊ Shalas

Even with the naive queuing I'm using, it'll be down for at most one spell per minute (and none with the cycles it's actually generating). VT uptime is more of a concern, but so far it's failing to have VT up for 1-2 spells per 5 minute cycle, so improving that is probably not worth the effort

With how many spells we have now (6), it's pretty terrible for non-cycle dps. With the model I have now (which is somewhat better than what generated the above cast sequence), it's a 1.2% increase in dps for 5 points (and a slight decrease in mana efficiency).

Definatly. It's about a 5% dps increase for 2 points, along with less mana used.

Calculating spell damage on the fly isn't actually nessesary, as the differences it makes is incredibly minor. Refreshing a dot early to take advantage of temporary buffs/debuffs isn't always even a dps increase.

Implementing a mod which told you what spell to cast would be fairly trivial, as I'm already implementing the model in lua. I'm not sure if I'd want to release it, though. Right now shadow priest dps is interesting because it actually requires thinking, and settling into a rhythm isn't possible without sacrificing some dps. Whacking the button it tells you to whack every 1.5 or 3 seconds would be pretty repetative. Also, I assume a mod that told you what spell to cast (compared to timer bars, which mearly help you decide which spell to cast) would not make Blizzard happy, and there isn't really any way they could break it.

 

• Trepidati0n

I thank you for your confirmations. I've been a heal-bot for so long that some things that DPS people take for granted i'm just learning. I currently cycle as best as I can taking into account what works best based upon my lag. However, the fact that there are 5 spells we need to expend in a somewhat unique order means i'm spending way to much time looking at cooldowns instead of trying to be aware of my situations which I feel is pretty important in 5-man. Maybe i'll get better at it with time...my DPS with the same gear has already gone up about 20-30% just by being less stupid.

 

Thelyna

I've recieved a couple PM's on it, so I've decided to post my shadow priest talent guide.

NB: Disclaimer, this is for a PvE build primarily. You want PvP look to someone else. I barely PvP on my Paladin, why would I want to PvP on a class that has less armor, less stamina and who's very existence is a red flag to the Horde's bull? ;)

Early levels: Wand Spec is tempting, but to get it you're holding yourself back from getting Mind Flay for five levels (unless you want to respec at 20), so I'd recommend early shadow all the way. First five points into Spirit Tap, then get Imp. SW:P and 3/5 Shadow Focus. Shadow Affinity is nice, but that's primarily a grouping tool so you don't pull aggro when you're DPS'ng, and most times if you're in a group at that level you're not DPS'ng. Blackout is another discussion, but I find it unreliable for use while soloing, and generally a distraction when it does happen. For PvE soloing, Spirit Tap > Blackout by a wide margin.

Level 20. From here, I'd recommend two points in Imp. Psy Scream (to prep for Silence later and also for the shorter cooldown, fear is your friend when you wear cloth and your main armor source has charges). What to do with the other two points at this level is up to you, personally I'd finish out Shadow Focus, but Imp MB is a valid choice*, as is Blackout if you like your stuns. At 25 get Shadow reach, then 3/5 Shadow Weaving, then VE.

* Imp MB seems nice because MB is your only direct nuke. However, Mind Blast has shocking mana efficiency, and so I tend to use it only to pull (front-loading damage means basically the mob starts with less health, which is always good) and if I really need to ramp up DPS. Otherwise, I stick with mindflay/pain/VE/VT. Boring, yes. Effective, yes.

Level 30. From here we have 13 very good talent points to go into nine spaces to get to 40 - the final 2 Weaving, 2 Imp. VE, 1 Silence, 5 Darkness, 3 Focused Mind. Imp. Fade is just a joke, I've *never* met a Priest who went shadow and specced Imp. Fade.

For myself I'd choose to max up Weaving (having a 60% chance to proc debuff decide not to proc four times in a row is just annoying), grab Silence (utility value is just too high, from silencing healers trying to heal themselves to pulling casters away from adds), get 3/3 Focused Mind (more mana is always good, and this is about the only option you have at this point to get or keep mana), and 2/5 Darkness, then the big kahuna, Shadowform.

Level 40. At this point, options are fairly slim. Shadow Resilience is junk for PvE grinding (mob spells can't crit), and Shadow Power doesn't come into it's own until you have Shadow Word: Suicide (SW: Death) to play with. I'd recommend filling out the remainder of Darkness and grabbing imp VE. Getting Blackout, Shadow Affinity or imp MB are also options ... mi