Not sure this is really worth the effort, a 10 min buff that can only be gathered in eversong and gives a minor debuff for 20 mins.. and of course the derision of blood elves everywhere.
Consume magic, mana tap and arcane torrent are nice ideas, but their utter lack of scaleablity and randomness makes them well nigh useless.
I know i know *whine *whine, but i feel a bit cheated for having to relevel from 0-70 my priest just so i can play with the new races only to find that i only get new places to play 1-20 and my racials are somewhat useless at lvl 70.
The racials suck in PVE, but are still pretty good in PVP. I don't think any of this information was unknown when BC came out.
i didn't know that tehre weren't going to be different levels for consume magic, and i was also not clear on exactly how random it was. I know this is not a class ability thread, but i thought it was pretty stark how the BE racials don't fit at all into a SP's playstyle while the other races priest abilities are all in varying degrees much more useful.
the dranaei racial (symbol of hope) seems PVE based in fact and scales up to lvl 70 (giving 333 mana every 5 secs for 15 seconds.. that is a GROUP buff of an extra 1K mana).
This doesn't even count Fear Ward...
humans don't get much, but they do get feedback another ability that actually scales with level,
UD get devouring plague, which while not overpowering, is another dot spell for the SP.
And once again scales.
Even star shards is a nice DOT for shadow priests since it get +170% bonus dmg and is arcane. And once again scales with level.
Trolls get shadowguard which is good as it is affected by all the other shadowbuffs, and it is essentially free. besides Berzerking is very viable in PvE and is essentially another free spell haste ability.
Don't misunderstand this isn't as much of a "Alliance is overpowered" rant, but much more of a, why don't they just make Consume magic and the BE racials more scaleable at the very least or useful ideally.
I mean seriously.. at lvl 70 Consume magic (with a 2 min cooldown)give ~450 mana.. how in the world can that compare to the dranai class ability? It isn't even in the same stratosphere.
If i could choose, why wouldn't i want a dranai shadow priest over a BE shadowpriest?
PVP, which is where many horde abilties shine. Bear in mind I'm by no means a PVP expert.
Mana tap isn't as useful as, say, mana burn, but the arcane torrent being an additional silence is especially useful against an opposing caster class. The Dranei equivalent, gift of the naaru, scales very poorly at 70.
Consume magic, the blood elf equivalent to symbol of hope, is again primarily PVP-focused. You can remove enemy buffs! And gain mana back by doing so! Pesky ice shield or mana shield getting in the way? Whisk it off and come out ahead mana-wise. Pop off a mark of the wild or fortitude buff for hit point reduction. In combat nobody's going to take the time to recast these costly spells.
So yes, for PVE you get great mana return and that 1% hit for everyone in your group. Fantastic. In PVP the horde gets the advantage eating your buffs off and silencing you.
humans don't get much, but they do get feedback another ability that actually scales with level
I don't know that I've ever found a use for feedback, in PvE or PvP. If you're getting focused by enough targets to justify the 800 mana for feedback you're probably about .5 seconds from dying. Whether it scales with level or not I don't think it's useful at any level. Someone find a use for it, PLEASE.
Consume magic, the blood elf equivalent to symbol of hope, is again primarily PVP-focused. You can remove enemy buffs!
Unless its functionality differs from what the tooltip states, Consume Magic doesn't have the utility you're describing. Consume Magic's tooltip indicates: "Dispels one beneficial Magic effect from the caster and gives them 120 to 154 mana. The dispelled effect must be a priest spell."
I.e. self-only and limited to priest class buffs (I imagine that includes Renew).
I'm not sure where people are getting the ~450 mana figures for Consume Magic at 70 from. I primarily use it when grinding to eat the old PW:S I had up, and it always returns just shy of 700 mana to me. It's not excellent, sure, but it's not terrible either. It has a fair number of uses in PvE, since for a lot of fights a BE Priest only has one relevant buff, PW:F, and the 3 junk buffs of ToW/Inner Fire/Shadow Protection. It's relatively good in PvP too - I'm on a mid-1600 arena 5v5 team right now, and running in almost entirely PvE gear, I have under 8k unbuffed mana, and eating one of my buffs for mana when I'm not the focus target is a wonderful alternative.
Arcane Torrent, on the other hand, sucks. It's 4 global cooldowns for under 500 mana. I could not cast for 6 seconds and gain literally the same amount of mana from just Spirit regen.
On a different note, I'm torn between [Soul-Collar of the Incarnate] and [Spellstrike Hood]. Assuming blue-quality gems and the [Mystical Skyfire Diamond], the t4 piece is about 56 spell damage raid-buffed (counting Imp. DS), whereas Spellstrike is 73. Doing some quick searching shows that the meta gem is 40-ish +damage, while the Spellstrike set bonus is about 15. Now, unless I'm horribly mistaken somewhere, given that I have easy access to the t4 piece (drop rates notwithstanding), is there really any point to going to the expense of crafting the Spellstrike set versus just getting the t4 helm and [Trial-Fire Trousers]?
I'm not sure where people are getting the ~450 mana figures for Consume Magic at 70 from. I primarily use it when grinding to eat the old PW:S I had up, and it always returns just shy of 700 mana to me. It's not excellent, sure, but it's not terrible either. It has a fair number of uses in PvE, since for a lot of fights a BE Priest only has one relevant buff, PW:F, and the 3 junk buffs of ToW/Inner Fire/Shadow Protection. It's relatively good in PvP too - I'm on a mid-1600 arena 5v5 team right now, and running in almost entirely PvE gear, I have under 8k unbuffed mana, and eating one of my buffs for mana when I'm not the focus target is a wonderful alternative.
Arcane Torrent, on the other hand, sucks. It's 4 global cooldowns for under 500 mana. I could not cast for 6 seconds and gain literally the same amount of mana from just Spirit regen.
On a different note, I'm torn between [Soul-Collar of the Incarnate] and [Spellstrike Hood]. Assuming blue-quality gems and the [Mystical Skyfire Diamond], the t4 piece is about 56 spell damage raid-buffed (counting Imp. DS), whereas Spellstrike is 73. Doing some quick searching shows that the meta gem is 40-ish +damage, while the Spellstrike set bonus is about 15. Now, unless I'm horribly mistaken somewhere, given that I have easy access to the t4 piece (drop rates notwithstanding), is there really any point to going to the expense of crafting the Spellstrike set versus just getting the t4 helm and [Trial-Fire Trousers]?
There will be a slight difference. You're getting less hit & crit. I for one chose to spend all my cash on Spellstrike set instead of going for T4/T5. I wouldn't get either, even if I didn't have to pay DKP, unless nobody else needed even for their offspecs. And then I'd only want it for the stamina, and pretty much only use for trash clearing.
I'm a sucker for dps, and I've always sacrificed both health and mana for maximum dmg output.
1k dps on bosses is something I'm only recently breaking. And then only on easy-aggro bosses like Lurker. So for me it's since going over 1150 +dmg.
Only recently I'm encountering bosses where I can freely rotate SWD in. And not to forget I'm quite dependant on ISB uptime and group setup. With a Shaman totem I can almost break 1100dps.
I often still feel like I need to hold back though. My TPS goes through the roof, even with Salvation and without VE :S . Even more than a month ago I was gaining threat on the MT at Magtheridon, while on click-duty.
Why do I always feel I'm showing off when talking about dps...? My numbers are nothing special compared to some locks in my guild. But still top 4 which worries me.
Trolls get shadowguard which is good as it is affected by all the other shadowbuffs, and it is essentially free. besides Berzerking is very viable in PvE and is essentially another free spell haste ability.
Since shadowguard interrupts mind flay I have stopped using it to raid. In 2.1, or shortly after, they gave shadowguard the ability to proc trinket abilities like Eye of Mag and the Crusade card, but Hortus claims that it also must interrupt channeled spells to function like this. This was a horrible trade since it opens up the potential to lose DPS and mana efficiency. Basically its main purpose now is for a chance to proc blackout after being cheap shot or intercepted.
Not sure this is really worth the effort, a 10 min buff that can only be gathered in eversong and gives a minor debuff for 20 mins..
It isn't much effort. You can usually buy stacks of it on the AH for less than a gold. +10 damage might no seem like a lot, but it's only two less than a ring enchant and pretty much free. The debuff you get is trivial (-6 spirit or something) and it goes away when you consume another bloodthistle.
It's not huge but it makes up for the lack of a decent PvE racial until it gets nerfed not to stack with other consumables.
Originally Posted by Nicodemous
Consume magic, the blood elf equivalent to symbol of hope, is again primarily PVP-focused. You can remove enemy buffs! And gain mana back by doing so! Pesky ice shield or mana shield getting in the way? Whisk it off and come out ahead mana-wise. Pop off a mark of the wild or fortitude buff for hit point reduction. In combat nobody's going to take the time to recast these costly spells.
Err... no that's not how Consume Magic works. It eats one of your buffs not an enemy's buffs.
I've been looking for hard numbers backing me up that Quag's Eye is inferior to GCI for shadow priests.
My other trinket is eye of the silver crescent. I enjoy having 2 on use trinkets, and i pretty much have them both cooling down on boss fights. Quag's eye seems minimaly benificial. I currently have 3/5 in imp MB and enjoy that burst dmg. Not having any mana problems currently on the content we are up to [started Kael this week]
So I'm just wondering, which should I use. GCI or Quag's Eye.
I've been looking for hard numbers backing me up that Quag's Eye is inferior to GCI for shadow priests.
My other trinket is eye of the silver crescent. I enjoy having 2 on use trinkets, and i pretty much have them both cooling down on boss fights. Quag's eye seems minimaly benificial. I currently have 3/5 in imp MB and enjoy that burst dmg. Not having any mana problems currently on the content we are up to [started Kael this week]
So I'm just wondering, which should I use. GCI or Quag's Eye.
It's not the answer you're looking for, but just get the Crusade card. The fair is still in town now, and I recently built a second deck for an alt for less than 1000g. Given that it's the second best trinket in the game, it's well worth the investment.
It's not the answer you're looking for, but just get the Crusade card. The fair is still in town now, and I recently built a second deck for an alt for less than 1000g. Given that it's the second best trinket in the game, it's well worth the investment.
Yeah, I'm aware and am working on getting that deck. Have the money together and everything, however, until then, i am wondering if Quag's Eye is worth it, or do I just keep using the GCI.
Yeah, I'm aware and am working on getting that deck. Have the money together and everything, however, until then, i am wondering if Quag's Eye is worth it, or do I just keep using the GCI.
The Skull of Guldan can be better, if you need it to hit the the hit cap. That depends on your build though, and whether you care to reclaim talent points or not. There's also the slight drawback that it's not available until after you beat the game.
I'm so glad I made my blessings deck before the general masses knew what it was. I think I paid 10-30 for each card, minus 200 for one of them. Now people on Tichondrius are paying 100-200 per card, sometimes more.
Also im curious what trinket you guys would you consider better then darkmoon card:crusade. As far as i see it, its the best out there.
Originally Posted by Snowy
The Skull of Guldan can be better, if you need it to hit the the hit cap. That depends on your build though, and whether you care to reclaim talent points or not. There's also the slight drawback that it's not available until after you beat the game.
That's the trinket I was thinking of. I'll also note that haste rating is a multiplicative factor on your DPS, while spell damage is an additive factor. In other words, haste gives greater returns when you have a lot of spell damage, while each extra point of spell damage always adds the same DPS. So if you have a lot of spell damage, the skull is better even if you don't need the hit rating.
The trinket has a base 55 spell damage, and for 1/6th of the time you have it, it gives 175 haste rating, or an average of 29 rating. The question is whether 29 haste is better than 25 spell damage. This means the breakeven point is at 1 haste = .86 spell damage. Right now I'm at around 1300 spell damage unbuffed and I'm already seeing returns better than 1 haste = 1 spell damage. So I'd say the skull is better than crusade even without the hit rating, at least by the time you can kill Illidan.
On a different note, I'm torn between [Soul-Collar of the Incarnate] and [Spellstrike Hood]. Assuming blue-quality gems and the [Mystical Skyfire Diamond], the t4 piece is about 56 spell damage raid-buffed (counting Imp. DS), whereas Spellstrike is 73. Doing some quick searching shows that the meta gem is 40-ish +damage, while the Spellstrike set bonus is about 15. Now, unless I'm horribly mistaken somewhere, given that I have easy access to the t4 piece (drop rates notwithstanding), is there really any point to going to the expense of crafting the Spellstrike set versus just getting the t4 helm and [Trial-Fire Trousers]?
Before 2.2 I would have suggested T4 with MSD. Now that Mindflay consumes the Focus buff, I have had much better results with the Spellstrike bonus over T5 with MSD. I don't see myself taking the set back off until [Leggings of Channeled Elements] and T6 helm.
My guild's started to get Al'ar on farm (well, killed him twice with major problems), and the highest on DKP has gotten the band of Al'ar, so I'm next. Now I'm wondering which of my current rings I should swap it with. I -only- care about the damage output, so ignore the extra mana from int and extra health from stamina.
What I need to know is when ring of recurrence is better than cobalt band of tyrigosa. Fully buffed (with crusade card fully stacked, but without silver crescent use and my spellstrike proc, and without shaman totem etc.) I'm sitting close to 1500 damage. So 19 crit rating vs. 3 damage.
How often would I have to use MB/Sw: Death for the recurrence ring to be better? I highly doubt that the Cobalt band is better when I use MB and Sw: Death at every CD (even though I only have 2/5 imp MB), as with 1500 +dmg, crit starts to add a lot of extra damage.
I'm not sure how your guild's DKP system works and whether or not you can save it for something else but if I were you I wouldn't spend it on Band of Alar. You're only looking at a 2 or 5 damage upgrade. Yes, I know every point counts, but still...
Ok, a more general question to the forum:
Now that [Mystical Skyfire Diamond] has been nerfed yet again with a 45 second internal cooldown, does anyone else think the new 3% crit gem is better now? The requirements aren't so bad as one blue comes from your helmet so you're only losing out on one other slot. MSD just seems so underwhelming now especially when you have no control of when it will proc. Yes, you can always stop and cast mindflay but if your Mind Blast is on cooldown and you delay on casting it for the flay... eh. I don't know. It just seems like getting the bonus on Mind Blast crits (and Death if you use it) is a more tangible benefit.
Metro, with +1400dmg and a full Death/Blast rotation, crit is still only worth 1/6 of what +dmg is. I can't see CSD even touching the Spirit Shards one, let alone the nerfed MSFD (which was put at 32 with a 30-second cooldown, so I'd guess *very roughly* +20dmg at 45sec).
I plan on switching out my Tier 4 + MSFD for the new ZA helm and sticking with that till Tier 5 helm + shoulders for the bonus. The combined +hit and +dmg on that thing is incredible.
I'm not sure how your guild's DKP system works and whether or not you can save it for something else but if I were you I wouldn't spend it on Band of Alar. You're only looking at a 2 or 5 damage upgrade. Yes, I know every point counts, but still...
If it's a fixed price priority system, I would pass on the ring unless the system has an aggressive upgrade discount. If it's a bid system, I'd bid 2/3rds of your weekly point income.
Originally Posted by Metrosexuelf
Now that [Mystical Skyfire Diamond] has been nerfed yet again with a 45 second internal cooldown, does anyone else think the new 3% crit gem is better now? The requirements aren't so bad as one blue comes from your helmet so you're only losing out on one other slot. MSD just seems so underwhelming now especially when you have no control of when it will proc. Yes, you can always stop and cast mindflay but if your Mind Blast is on cooldown and you delay on casting it for the flay... eh. I don't know. It just seems like getting the bonus on Mind Blast crits (and Death if you use it) is a more tangible benefit.
After the cooldown is up, it will take on average 6 spell casts to proc it again. This means you're looking at roughly 1 PPM, which is an extra half mind flay every minute. That's maybe 1400 damage if you're in the 1200 DPS range. 1400 damage per minute is 23 DPS.
How much do you get from 3% extra crit damage? Even if 50% of your 1200 DPS came from crit mind blasts and flays, a 153% / 150% increase of 600 DPS is only a 12 DPS increase. Mystical Skyfire is still twice as good.
10/04/07, 3:31 PM
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