Enkidu

I simplified it for myself a bit by not taking in the modifiers and calcing it for 70. Devastate costs a third more rage, so you need the average threat from it to be more by one third of sunder, 402 threat at the highest ranks.

301.5x1.333=401.8995 is our break off point.
402-101=301 is the damage Devastate needs on average.

402/12=33.5 Devastate TPR
301.5/9=33.5 Imp.SA TPR

0% DR without any modifiers:
(35*5+101)+X/2=402
2*(276)+2*X/2=2*402
X=804-552
X=252

Defensive Stance (no Defiance):
301.5*1.3/9=43.55 TPR
(301+101)*1.3/12=43.55 TPR

But then we have damage modifiers:
301*.9*1.1=297.99

We also have mob DR which in raids would be around 25% or so as things were on beta.
Our tooltip average damage (in Defensive stance) needs to be:
(175*.9*1.1+X/2)*.75=301
{173.25+X/2}{2*.75}=2*301
259.875+.75X=602
.75X=602-259.875
342.125/.75=456.16
X=456.16

0% DR: 255.5 DMG
25% DR: 456.16 DMG

0% DR breakdown:
255.5/2+173.25=301
WPN/Mod+Base=Total

25% DR breakdown:
Devastate base: 173.25*.75=129.9375
Devastate weapon: 456.16*.75/2=171.06
Total tally: 171.06+129.9375=300.9975

This is not counting crits and normalization which skew it in favor of Devastate. Considering how the next tiers look, people should run around with pretty respectable crit rates but rather weak base AP in comparison to now.

 

Celandro

The numbers arent nearly complicated enough for warrior threat ;). You are missing the white damage -> yellow damage bonus. No glancing blows, no crit cap and impale are pretty significant. You also have to remember there is a difference between max theoretical threat per second from heroic strike and actual rage limited threat per second. Here is my old spreadsheet for Heroic Strike: http://www.poseidonguild.com/poseido...roicStrike.xls It obviously requires some modification with the new mechanics (24% reduction instead of 30 - 3* skill for glancing blows) but it shows the numbers for various speed and dps weapons.

 

Schnappi

I doubt many Protection warriors will spec Impale over Cruelty and Imp Demo Shout or UW.

 

Joy

Agreed, there are a heck of a lot of points to dump into Prot (50 ish) if you're main tanking.

 

TheOnly

Ok, so there has been some research into the devastate threat changes in 2.0.3

What about the Maul change? Has anyone verified the loss of the 1.75 multpilier and measured the size of its static threat addition?

 

Zacara

The static threat modifier for Devastate now seems to be 101 and it doesn't decay as you get new ranks.

The static threat on maul have gotten varied reports between 180 and 220ish. Still haven't seen any final numbers on it.

 

Whiteknight

updated: druid changes and the new devastate numbers.

Also, my testing partner and I verified that Prayer of Mending generates hate for the player it heals, not the caster of the spell. The combat log message reflects this too, reading something like this:

"Your Prayer of Mending heals You for 950" (from a mage combat log)

 

Nite_Moogle

50 gp says Prayer of Mending fix in the next patch to allocate threat to the caster.

 

Vhal

Is anyone aware to any recent change in druid cat form threat? Recently what I've been seeing in parties has been counter to my expectations -- both damage meters showing me doing considerably more damage, but the cat draws aggro much more than I do. Far from what I was expecting with both supposedly having the same threat reduction.

Of course, I'm rather unfamiliar with druid mechanics, so I could just be totally lost here.

 

• frmorrison

Cats have the same threat reduction as Rogues, but maybe the Druid is power-shifting (i.e. coming in and out of forms to gain 40 energy) which gives some extra aggro. Also, while Druids have cower this druid may not be using it, and of course they don't have vanish.

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

Babe Bridou

That would be a so-so change in my opinion.

Right now this threat feature can be described like this:

On the good side, it allows a priest to rely on a single target tank to protect him and his group by building AOE threat in his place. And that essentially means you can do pickup rushes of lower level instances without too much of an afterthought to get some money & rep up in your spare time (who didn't wish he could, seriously?).

On the bad side, it's too powerful.

 

• Greybone

Figured this thread could use a better home :)

 

Whiteknight

Updated for 2.0.8 (ktm 19.8 released)

 

• frmorrison

Nice update, however I didn't see under the threat modifies the Shaman ones (Spirit Weapons for -15% melee threat or Elemental Precision for -10% on spell damage)

 

Whiteknight

Thanks - I missed those. (Kenco didn't - KTM takes these into account in the later versions).

I also added Healing Grace

 

RK

I'll take that bet if you still want to make it, since Earth Shield works the same way and they haven't changed that. I think PoM and Earth Shield speak to the same design imperative as Misdirection: less screwing people over because the first couple of sunders got dodges/parried and then a heal has to go through and blammo. Lets Blizzard start with the big hits (and big heals) from the start, since the tank starts with a bit of a buffer. It also helps the tank with multi-mob aggro, which is a known problem area and not something they need to nerf.

Any testing been done on whether Elemental Precision lowers threat on healing spells? From the wording it should being as they're nature spells.

 

• frmorrison

I never tested that on my Shaman, but from my understanding of the wording it says damage caused by Fire, Frost, and Nature spells, and last time I checked heals don't damage things .

 

Mordinm

I had a question about threat from power gain for rage. My understanding is that while taking a mana pot will generate threat from the gained mana just like healing threat "natural" mana regen i.e. spirit regen and mana/5 causes no threat. What is considered natural rage gain? I know enrage and bloodrage generate theat but I would not expect the rage generated from taking damage or doing white damage to give you extra. So is the rage I gain from white hits helping my agro a bit? For druids like myself is the 5 bonus rage gained on each crit giving a bonus 25 aoe threat?

 

Boevis

It actually says "reduces the threat caused by your Fire, Frost, and Nature spells" and just as Natures Swiftness states "... your next Nature spell ..." Shamans can most certainly NS Heal (just as druids, whose NS is worded the same way) just as well as they can NS Chain Lightning. Sort their Skill list on Thottbot by School, aside from a couple totems and Frost/Flame shock, almost everything in a shamans repertoire is a "Nature Spell"

I'm not entirely certain why it wasn't simply worded "reduces the threat cause by your spells by x%" unless Wrath of Air Totem and Bloodlust have some threat to them.

 

Boevis

Rage gained from the 2 conventional methods (getting hit, hitting things) does not generate threat.

I believe the 5 rage gained from Primal Fury does generate threat however it's rather difficult to test, many times when an ally is feared into a group of adds, they will quickly head toward me as I spam swipe. I'll have to pay closer attention to see if this is due to iLotP proccing, or because of the rage gain (I'm almost certain it has occured with crits while iLotP was on cooldown)

 

Lao

(F) Warlock

All (not most) curses cause non-zero threat, they are either debuffs or deal damage.

Soulshatter reduces the warlock's threat accumulated by 50%. i.e. if I have 50k threat and succesfully Soulshatter, I will drop to 25k. This affects all mobs in a 50yd radius and can be resisted. 5min cooldown.

Warlocks with the Master Demonologist talent (25 pts into Demonology, plus the 5 for the talent), may reduce their threat by an additional 20% by summoning an Imp and having it out.

 

Whiteknight

Thank-you. I've updated the warlock section.

 

Goreshot

(I) Hunter

The Marksmanship talent "Go For the Throat" gives the hunter's pet 25/50 Focus every time the hunter lands a critical strike. This "power gain" generates non-zero threat for the hunter (*not* the pet).

This is easily seen when you send your pet in to attack one mob and it proximity aggroes other mobs. When you land a critical strike on the mob being tanked by your pet, you gain aggro on the other non-tanked mobs. Speccing out of the "Go For the Throat" talent no longer causes you to pull aggro on those same mobs when you land a critical strike. I have not tested how much threat this generates, and have yet to see any hard numbers from other sources.

 

Louviel

Considering that the current knowledge states that power gain is 5 threat per point gained..
I would place Focus under this rule. Consequently, I would bet that the threat that "Go for the Throat" gives is 125/250.

 

B.Lan

Hey there

What about Spell Reflect? In your Post at evilempire you state that Spell Reflect generates 0 threat.
Is that only the base value? I suspect the reflectet spell itself will generate threat for the amount of damage done doesn't it?

So let's say i reflect a Firebolt and it will hit the mob for 2000, will that generate 2000xM threat for me, while M is the modifier?

thanks