• Jamor

I wouldn't say it took a nerf at all. In fact, it's better IMO. Pre 2.1 revenge was 401 + average damage (mine probably did an average of about 85). I would guesstimate my average revenge hit for ~350-370 the last couple of nights. If you add that with the innate threat it's clearly better. Even if you totally remove crits, my average was probably about 325ish on bosses. Add that to the innate of 201, and it comes out ahead. On top of that, it would seem to scale much better. A feral + battleshout make it scale even better. Overall, I can't complain about the change.

Plus, even if it was the same, it's nice to see huge 800 crit revenges pop up.

 

Branar

The only thing Revenge scales with is crit rating. It's not based on attack power.

 

Krennick

Not the only thing.

Let's not forget that threat from damage is subject to armor, where as fixed threat on top is not subject to armor.

Thus, Revenge is now improved on lightly armored and unarmored targets, and possibly worse than before on heavily armored targets.

 

Roana

I did some quick testing of Spell Reflection today with the holy priest of a friend.

Test data: I reflected the Scorch of an Eclipsion Archmage (Shadowmoon Valley) for 439 damage and generated no other threat. 2102 points of healing at range (no overheal) didn't draw aggro off me, 2180 points of healing did. I was in defensive stance. The priest has 5/5 Silent Resolve, I have 3/3 Defiance.

Assuming that reflected spells generate one point of threat per point of damage, modified by defensive stance, aggro should transfer at:

439 * 2 / 0.8 * 1.3 * 1.495 = 2132.99125 healing.

(2 = two points of healing are one point of threat, 0.8 = Silent Resolve modifier, 1.3 = range modifier, 1.495 = Defensive Stance modifier, including Defiance).

This result is consistent with the conjecture that reflected spells cause threat as though the warrior had caused the damage herself with a normal attack.

 

Base

I have been looking for an updated list of threat values so I can report the TPR and TPS values different abilities do to the warriors in my guild. This thread seems to be the one I am looking for, but I was wondering if these values are still accurate.

The reason I ask is because of the change made to revenge in patch 2.1.

As Lavina reported:

Can we consider these values "confirmed"? If so, it would be great if this post could be updated, the OP does not reflect this change yet.

 

• frmorrison

You can look at the code for KTM to see the threat values. The number you quoted is from KTM code, so I would think it is confirmed.


BTW, Omen is a Ace'd version of KTM if anyone is interested in that.

 

Whiteknight

I've not updated the OP post in a while. Certainly it doesn't include the adjustment to Revenge in the recent patch.

 

Roana

Kenco took that number from a couple of postings on the WoW forums where people had tested it, I believe. For what it's worth, I've tested Revenge to have a value close to 200, too (though I don't recall the exact range off-hand, but it was at most plus/minus 5).

 

Base

I am at work and wanted to do some threatcalculations. I downloaded KTM as someone advised above and checked the threatvalues listed in the data file. I found this:

["revenge"]

[top]
{
class

"warrior",
["5"]
 

Contents

1 { threat 2 { threat 3 { threat 4 { threat 5 multiplier

[top] { threat

315 },
["6"]

[top] { threat

355 },
["7"]

[top] { threat

400 }, -- guestimate
["8"]

[top] { threat

483 },


Am I looking at the wrong place, or is revenge not yet changed in KTM? Any ideas?

I also found

["thunderclap"]

[top] multiplier

1.75,

whereas TC is reported as Thunder Clap = 130 in this post.

The rest of the numbers matched what is reported here.

 

◊ Oggie

Looking up the data in Threat 1.0 (by Ace) I got a value of about 201 in what I'm reasonably certain is the expected field.

Threat had roughly the same numbers as here for everything but Revenge., though suprisingly off on some of them, but I'm reasonably confident I pulled the actual data out correctly.

[e] Because I'm stupid and not typing well.

 

Base

Thats surprising, Omen and Threat 1.0 having different numbers. When I get home I'll check what is reported for TC, since that value also surprised me here. Might deserve a report in the addon thread if there really are differences.

 

◊ Oggie

Not at all- it's just that the phrasing came out a totally different way in my brain than it ended up appearing in my post. Omen's not a real thread meter in any case but a wrapper for Threat 1.0- but I'm sure you knew that. I edited my earlier post to take out the stupid.

Threat reports TC as 1.75x modifier as well I believe, but I can't be certain because my lua knowledge is lacking. It seems consistant with Frost Shock but Holy Shield for example is formatted entirely differently.

 

Phun

I perused the whole thread and never did find an answer to this question from back on the 3rd page. I ran a couple tests to try to recreate a Hydross style test on pre-fading. I apologize if this info is already widely known, but I've been unable to find anything regarding how pre-fading works on these or any other forums.

I had a druid friend of mine generate a couple hundred threat on a basilisk at the start of a fight, then I faded and healed him for over 1000 threat and did not pull aggro. KTM registered my heal as threat and had me as #1 on the meter. Fade expired and the druid still had aggro. After the effect faded, any minor, low threat action would draw aggro from the mob. Since the actions I performed out of fade produced less threat on KTM than the amount of total threat the druid had on the mob, I'd conclude that there is not "absorption" of threat during Fade.

So from that, I'd confirm that you can't fade below 0 threat. You can't pull aggro on a mob by performing actions while faded, though you can retain aggro if you had it before fading, as we priests have all experienced. Pre-fading does work if you allow others to surpass your threat before taking any actions after Fade expires.

I plan on doing a bit more testing tonight after our raid. If anyone can confirm this or can point out a flaw in my logic, I'd like very much to hear it, since I plan to start pre-fading on Hydross transitions based on these results. Our priest corps would appreciate any other pre-fade info to help us progress past Morogrim.

 

Althor

First I would suggest not using a druid as your tank, assuming you're using him in bear or cat etc. If he's in caster form or something then carry on.

Second, what you really need to provide are accurate numbers. Preferably in terms of damage done and healing done. If you're looking to prove or disprove a theory like this where KTM has it's own built in detection for what you're trying to test then you shouldn't really rely upon it.

Instead accurately record the amount of damage that your druid did, how much actual healing you did on the druid (remember that overhealing produces no threat) and then how much damage you did when fade ended that caused you to pull agro.

 

Jini

My conclusion from testing fade is that it provides a buff that provides negative threat. As such, you never have negative threat, but you plus the buff can have negative threat.

The aggro system is the one that causes the mob to not switch until an action is taken that causes it to evaluate who the mob should be attacking. It seems that the system does not treat the loss of the buff as a trigger for the decision process to run.

 

Phun

I withdraw the conclusions from my last post. My testing from tonight leaves me with 2 theories.

a) It is possible to pull aggro while faded by passing the #1 spot, and Fade allows you to go into negative threat,

b) It is possible to pull aggro while faded by achieving a very high % of the #1's threat (300-500%) and Fade does not allow you to go into negative threat.

I'm leaning toward 'a', and I'll just update this post after I test unless someone can confirm from testing before I get around to it.

 

Anedris

My understanding of fade (admittedly anecdotal but maybe it will clarify something here) is that it gives you a buff that reduces your threat by some amount (call it X) as long as it is active. So if you fade and then cause an amount of threat that is less than X you will still have zero threat until the buff expires, at which point your threat returns to its normal point (although you will not gain aggro, even if you have enough threat to do so, unless something causes the mob to reevaluate its opinion of you).

So while fade does not actually give you negative threat it does keep you at zero threat until it either expires or until your threat rises above X. I would imagine that the amount of threat required to pull aggro while faded is no different than the amount required while not faded (110 or 130% depending on range) - however, your threat is evaluated as <current threat - X> as long as the fade buff is active.

(So if <current threat - X> is greater than 130% of the aggro holder's threat you will pull aggro while faded.)

And yes, pre-fading seems to work well. I try to do it on both Magtheridon and Hydross and in old content found occasion to use it at the start of the Onyxia and Vael encounters as well.

 

Zurgat

Two small things:

Since i did not see this answered earlier in the thread :
* Blessing of Salvation: x0.7 + Tranquil Air Totem: x0.8
Do these two buffs stack ?
We recently tried it in our shadow priest group, and they claimed their threat was lower. They were just reading their findings from KTM though.

When i compare the tooltip of "Maul" / "Heroic Strike", i notice that HS says "causes high threat", while Maul doesn't
I assume this is merely an ingame tooltip error?

-= Random Ravings - RSS Feed =- Rogue and Hunter stuff here. As well as guides to get you trough your spare time.

 

Xei

All threat reducing modifiers are multiplicative not additive.

"Being a leader is not a position of power. It is a position of service." ~ Barestomper

WTB Oceanic Horde PvE Players

 

Eylirria

Yes. (0.7 * 0.8) = 0.56 (44% threat reduction)

Yes. IIRC, the current bonus threat from max rank Maul is estimated at 322.

 

Elhana

You can check it in ktm while having both buffs on you:
this will report your global threat multiplier

last time I checked my Rogue I think had 0.39xx with both BoS and Tranquil totem up, so they stacked

 

Apate

I think the point of mentioning "They were just reading their findings from KTM though." was to indicate that KTM only works based on our knowledge; if we are wrong, KTM will also be wrong. The API doesn't give your current threat modifier.

See you, auntie.

 

Darkrenown

Does the stun on improved revenge add any threat to it? I had not thought so, but people in my guild are saying it does.

 

Darkrenown

Anyone?

 

Dralmoo

Is there any chance the Warrior skill Slam has an extra threat component to it?

I ask because

* other rage dump skills (Cleave, HS, hamstring, execute) have some additional threat component
* I find that slam spam near the threshhold often pulls aggro when KTM/Omen indicate that not only am I not at the "Aggro Gain" bar, i'm in fact below the tank, meaning my actual threat must be a LOT higher than threat mods are indicating.

Testing seems a little problematic due to the need for a lot of rage - any suggestions on how to test? I can probably make a pally buddy of mine help out.