◊ Lactose

As time spent increases, 5/5 Improved Arcane Shot yields a ~20% DPS increase from regular Arcane Shot DPS if spammed the moment cooldown is ready.

Look, Lactose, we'd rather you didn't eradicate the whole human race.
- Sam & Max

 

• Keltan

Interesting. The pet attack speed normalization didn't go through.

Anyone have a source listing what mobs to tame to get the different ranks of Poison Spit and Gore?

Poison Spit:
Rank 1 off Wailing Caverns Adders
Rank 2 off Sunken Temple Slitherers
Rank 3 off Zul'Gurub Adders

Gore:

 

• Elendril

so yeah...rapid killing is absolutely awesome in group PVP. i just aimed shotted someone for 3400 :)

 

Zurai

This isn't about talents specifically, but I found out a VERY interesting tidbit of information last night.

I had just gotten a sweet new gun from an instance run (telescopic sharprifle, if anyone's curious) and switched over to that from my etheral warp-bow. Thing is, my bow skill was 350 and my gun skill was 260. Naturally, I missed a lot.

However, the interesting thing was this: arcane shot's partial resist rate went absolutely through the roof. I didn't see a single full damage arcane shot until ~325 skill (fighting against level 68ish mobs). Until 300 or so, if arcane even hit it was a guaranteed 75% resist.

It seems to me that arcane shot does not use the spell hit/resist table at all. It uses skill vs defense or skill vs level to determine resist rate.

 

Zeboim

Figured out how the scorpid poison pet skill works now. The first application correctly applies the additional spell power your pet gets from your rap. Every succesive aplication only adds the default spell to it. So my pets first stack is 41 damage per tick, then 53, then 65, then 78, then 91. It really sucks since it should be doing 200 damage per tick with 5 stacks. It's possible this isn't a bug and its intentional so this pet isn't completely overpowered. But if thats the case then windserpents will be getting nerfed soon.

 

Kaejin

On live, Rank 2 of Kill Command is back on the Hunter Trainers and Steady Shot is a level 66 skill.

I'm thinking they changed it back since on the test server it was Steady at 62/no second rank of KK.

 

◊ Eej

I just Auto'd a Warrior for 1262 and Arcane'd for 1730 with Rapid Killling (buff applied to both shots because it's awesome like that) with only Mark of the Wild and TSA up. I don't think I've ever had this much fun on my Hunter in forever... I mean, I can't even consider rerolling at the moment.

Well, maybe when the new-ness wears off my mind will change.

 

◊ Farstrider

Not so much relevant for new 51 point builds, but as far as levelling from 60-70 goes, I would strongly recommend not wasting points in the multishot boosting talents, it's 6 points that are pretty much completely wasted in instances. Two reasons for that - first most pulls in the new instances are at least 4 mobs meaning that you'll always be CC'ing 1-2 mobs, which isn't exactly synergetic with MS. Second, the fights are MUCH longer than in current instances, meaning that MS reliance will send you OOM early on in fights, and having to use AotV instead of AotH is worth around 40 dps, which is more than MS will make up for you.

So if the Multishot talents are worth 14dps, you can say that:-

If using Multishot will mean you need to use AotV for more than 1/3 of the fight, you're better off not using it and keeping AotH on.

And that's not even taking into account the dps effect from AotH procs which is worth at least 20 dps I reckon.

 

Caradoc

The correct model for this or any chance with a duration function is:

Probability the shot itself will trigger the effect + Probability any preceding shot in the duration of the ability has already triggered the effect.

P+(1-(1-P/100)^n)*100

(Where P = the probability the talent will proc, n = the number of shots in the duration of the talent that could cause the proc)

So you're basically calculating the chance there has NOT been a proc of the talent within the past 12 seconds (in the case of IAotH) converting that to the equivalent probability there HAS been a proc and adding the proc chance itself.

So for IAotH for a 1.8 spd wpn and 15% quiver haste we get:

15+(1-(1-0.15)^8.11)*100 = 67.45% chance each autoshot will be under the effect of IAotH
which is equivalent to a constant haste bonus of 15*0.6745 = 10%

 

Caradoc

Just read your post in the old thread Glaurong, I too was working Aimed shot into a rotation unti I figured out the numbers.

Aimed shot IS a boost to overall DPS, but only by a small ammount, even if perfectly timed to Autoshot.

The increase in casting time from 3 to 3.5s means it fires significantly more slowly than any autoshot, eating into that bonus damage. Add to that the fact that you can never perfectly time an aimedshot to go off the split second an auto has fired and you're losing a further 0.5 (ish) seconds of damage time, not to mention the lost dps from delaying casts of other abilities. The final nail in the coffin of Aimed shot is the huge mana expenditure.

So in the final analysis, Aimed shot is a decent opener for PvP (before the first autoshot) when you have the drop on someone, but just a mana sink if used in any form of rotation for little or no effective dps increase.

 

PitiChatMignon

Regarding the MS cooldown problem it is important to know if it starts when you cast it or when it fires.

If CD start when you cast Multi shot, with 5/5 in arcan shot cycle is :

In this case, yes 5/5 arcan shot is perfect.

But, if the CD starts when MS fires :

So in this case you are wasting some talent points in AS.

Better solution if CD starts after MS fires is 4/5 in arcan shot :

In a way I prefer if the CD strat after MS fires, as It will save one point to put somewhere else in my build, and you have a 0.1s in each cycle to compensate for the lag.

French cow.
Meuh !

 

alienangel

yeah, hunter pvp, specifically marks PvP is a blast right now. being charged by 6 people and having 3 of them explode on the way to me isn't something i'm used to. on the down side, half of what i hear in the general channels or guild chat is about how overpowered hunters are and need nerfing, so i'm feeling a little insecure.

and damn, why wasn't mongoose bite like this when i had Savage Strikes >.<

 

Fugazor

*insert random curses here*

Ok time to QQ hard so they will hopefully fix it next week with "fix" patch.

Oh i suppose dodge is bugged too? (-5%)

 

Phlis

Tangent:

ZG Snakes - HP, Armor, DPS, or Medium? I've heard 1.4 attack speed, didnt' get a chance to run down there last night to check them out. They have the third rank of Poison Spit, which apparently doesn't stack?

Also, the new spell Gore, whats the deal?

Any info while I'm sitting at work greatly anticipating going home and taming a snake would be appreciated.

 

Fugazor

Tame windserpent in ZG. Poison spit suck as damage is over 12 sec and does not stack (tested at PTR) :(

Serpents have "normal" stats.
Wind serpents have +7% damage bonus (same as owls/bats).

You can see all here:
http://thottbot.com/beta?pet=all

Gore (Rank 8) [lvl56]
25 Focus 5 yd range
Instant
Gores the enemy, causing 30 to 48 damage. This attack has a 50% chance to inflict double damage.

Still suck compared to Lightning Breath. Also no idea is it in live or only in beta.

 

Azulor

I agree. Improved Arcane is a great talent, but perhaps not 5/5. If you do go 5/5, however, and Multi cooldown is as in the second example above, you need to prioritize arcane shot over multi or you will have the collisions above which will mean you've wasted a point.

 

◊ Eej

Thanks for the math, I probably couldn't have figured it out myself. :P

So going back to the 39/12 build:

1.80 speed / (1.15 * 1.16 * 1.10) = 1.23 average attack speed

After 1 minute: 48.78 Autoshots, 9 Arcane Shots and 6 Multishots. 63.78 shots, 25% of which are crits, so 15.95 crits per minute. 0.27 crits per second.

0.27 * 292.13 = 77.63 DPS Increase under ideal situations.

One extra point of Serpent's Swiftness and Beast Within isn't going to make up for that much DPS.

 

Caradoc

If you're thinking raid DPS, then don't forget about sustainability. Beast Within gives 20% mana reduction to all abilities, all the time. You are trading a focus generating ability for a mana conservation ability, might be worthwhile looking at the maths for that too.

 

Fugazor

Wrong :( Only for duration, so 18 sec.

 

◊ Eej

Beast Within gives 20% mana reduction to all abilities for the duration of Bestial Wrath, which is nowhere as good as all the time. :P

You can fit three Arcanes and one Multi in 18 seconds, max rank that's something like 915 mana. So you save 183 mana every 2 minutes, or an equivelant of 7.6 mp5.

Points to consider for BM-spec mana regen: Black Grasp of the Destroyer and Judgement of Wisdom are great for you, and if all else fails, downranking still works (25 mana for RAP*0.2 + 6 damage? Hiyooo!)

 

Traygek

Poison spit does NOT suck. It does the damage over 12sec plus it acts as a sort of bite and it can crit (123dmg or so). "MobX suffers 83 damage from Snake's poison spit" and "Snake's poison spit hits MobX for 83 damage". So every 3 seconds or so whatever your snake is attacking takes around 166 poison damage. Not as good as lightning breath (no scaling) but it certainly does not suck.

 

• Dinian

Now that my cloak slot got gimped, I'm wondering which would be better all around for PVP/PVE. Right now I'm leaning towards still wearing the Fallen God cloak.

Cloak of the Fallen God - 26agi 15sta -> 15sta 26rap 0.79crit
Deathguard's Cloak - 5agi 11sta 34ap -> 11sta 39 rap 0.15crit
Cape of the Black Baron - 15agi 20ap -> 0sta 35rap 0.46crit

Oh, right now I'm playing around with a heavy Beast Mastery build. 43/5/3... I'm eager to see how it actually works out in practice in a few raids this week.

Immunity to CC makes this an amazing build for skirmishes in PVP, however, I definately feel like I'm missing out of Rapid Killing and Improved Barrage MS crits with Ash. I might respec later this week with all the gold I can now farm with Fluffy's shiny new epic armor :)

 

• selece

Rapid Killing is amazing for PVP.

[You] gain Rapid Killing.
[You] gain Beserking.
[You] Arcane Shot crit [someone] *obscene number over 2k*
[You] gain [Hearty Chuckle at Someone Else's Expense].

If you can get one, the Cloak of the Scourge from Noth is fairly nice too. Lots of STA, 1% hit and a decent amount of RAP! 23sta/30AP/1% hit [at 60, so 10 hit rating to be absolutely clear].

There's only an average of 2 minutes, 47 seconds between someone hitting "post" on a really stupid post and Kaubel wrecking it like a freight train.

 

osirisunnefer

I hope they fix hunters soon. BM is downright crazy for PvP, particularly with a 1.0 attack speed pet. Broken Tooth has a perminent 0.84 attack speed and near-perminent 0.64 attack speed after a crit. Its nuts against casters. And when I activate Beatial Wrath/The Beast Within, my pet can solo a caster while I run around meleeing rogues.

I haven't had a chance to test out BM in PvE though: has anyone got any feedback on DPS?