That doesn't surprise me at all. Your average GM isn't going to have any clue what the devs consider a 'bug' or not unless someone bothers to tell them. GMs are just glorified customer service agents like you get on the phone when you try to call the phone company. I very much doubt they have much, if any, direct communication with the devs. Odd as it seems, making a fuss on the forums is probably a better way to get something to the devs attention than a GM ticket is.
I would go for reading the thread before posting, unless I've been dreaming, I've seen a few posts in this massive incredibly long 3 page thread detailing this very conundrum. But if you're only gonna read the end, I'll make it easy for you, get concussive barrage, cant go wrong there.
I meant more generally i.e. NOT with a wind serpent as pet as that is a very special case, but thanks for your input.
You can't say "How much DPS is GFTT worth?" without stating more information. What pet are you using? What spec are you? What is your crit percentage and attack speed? For maximum GFTT DPS, a Wind Serpent is most optimal, things like Scorpids and Serpents come in second and stuff like Boars/Gorillas come in dead last.
In any case, today during the two hours I spent in the horrible Toronto subway system going to and from class, I thought up of a bunch of macros that some one out there might find useful. The first one is a modification of Lactose's earlier macros.
Clicking normally = Track Humanoids
Right Clicking = Track Beasts
Clicking with Ctrl pressed = Find Minerals
Clicking with Alt pressed = Track Hidden
Clicking with Ctrl and Alt pressed = Find Treasure, because I love treasure, even though I'm a Troll.
Pet macro
/Cast [modifier:ctrl] Mend Pet; [modifier:alt] Revive Pet; [button:2] Dismiss Pet; Call Pet
Clicking normally = Call Pet
Right Clicking = Dismiss Pet (opposite function, get it? :D)
Clicking with Alt pressed = Revive Pet
Clicking with Ctrl pressed = Mend Pet
You get the idea, though. Now go slim down that most-likely fat UI!
Also, I was thinking for a bit and I actually found a use for the /castrandom macro besides cycling through the different styles of polymorph you have.
I found that Rank 1 wasn't burning my mana fast enough but rank 2 was using up my mana too fast. By using castrandom you can effectively create a new rank of Multishot for yourself (we'll call it, Rank 1.5), which essentially allows you to fine-tune your mana usage.
You can't say "How much DPS is GFTT worth?" without stating more information. What pet are you using? What spec are you? What is your crit percentage and attack speed? For maximum GFTT DPS, a Wind Serpent is most optimal, things like Scorpids and Serpents come in second and stuff like Boars/Gorillas come in dead last.
Yeah I realised that on a bit more reflection, and to be honest I'm just being lazy. I'll go and experiment.
I'm just used to my pet being nothing more than an elaborate d.o.t. since I don't remember the last time I had more than 5 points in the BM tree. I've also been too busy at work to really look hard at the workings you did on the previous page so I'll have another look & do some thinking. Cheers.
<Fric> I think the only kind of gay buttsex I'd enjoy on any level would be assraping a smug hipster douchebag (also possibly a roid head and/or fratboy/Jersey Shore cast member)
<Zyla> If there's gonna be a dick in the room besides my own, i'd rather it have to be my brother's. You know that kinda sounds bad all typed out like that,
Also, I was thinking for a bit and I actually found a use for the /castrandom macro besides cycling through the different styles of polymorph you have.
OMG. I had no idea /castrandom existed. I now love you Eej. If only you were that cute tauren gal in your avatar :(
Anyway, did Noth - Heigan - Anub last night, noted the following:
- DPS seems fine, better than before. I have lower RAP fully buffed than used to have selfbuffed, but thanks to focussed fire and the weapon/ammo changes everything hits harder than before.
- mana is not a problem so long as you say farewell to using rank 5 multi in any continuous-burn fight. Used it for heigan because i take a regen break during fast phases, but it would get me oom on noth and anub (note I'd not using mageblood, mana oils or major mana, only BoW and one combat mana pot per fight).
- Rank 1 multi still seems to get us good positions on the meters (dramatically better than before in some cases) but seems to be too much downranking - i ended with mana to spare on noth and anub after using mostly rank 1. Some sort of alternation of ranks seems useful.
- After using a felguard, our RDX developer is finally adding stuff into RDX for pets - hopefully it'll make it easier for healers to heal them occasionally :P I think my windserpent pulling in about 40k damage on noth last night, compared to the ~8k my owl used to do on Patchwerk.
- Power Infusion apparently works on Arcane Shot
- Scorpid Sting doesn't last long enough
Sadly all the fights we did are kinda random, and all our hunters were heavy marks, so couldn't get any real comparison of different specs done. Has anyone tried out a heavy BM build?
edit: Regarding pet aggro, I don't know what they did, but it's certainly buffed. On PTR I could land a crit aimed-mult-arcane combo on a lvl 59 elite and my owl would hold aggro with literally just a growl, screech and melee hit.
Last night my guild got a chance to reenter Naxxramas since the realms were down during a large portion of our raid time on Tuesday. My build atm is 0/41/10 with points in imp barrage. During Anub'rekhan I noticed going out of mana far quicker than I did ever before, even using 6 piece Cryptstalker. I would find myself drinking almost every time Anub cast Locust Swarm to keep my mana up. I was using max rank Arcane Shot and Multishot and was really hoping to do much better on the damage meters. However, with all of my downtime drinking on that fight I simply didn't have the sustainability to do very well on the damage meters. I hope 8 piece CS will help but am also slightly disappointed that they didn't change the 20 mana reduction from aimed shot to arcane shot (I know there was never any intention of this but it still would have been nice).
Part of me is looking forward to Patchwerk this week (if he is fixed) to see how my DPS compares to what it used to be on that fight and whether or not I can sustain max rank of my arcane shot and multishot. What bothers me is how much easier the hunter class is with the removal of aimed shot. At least when you used that in your rotation it took a little bit of skill to time it correctly. Now it's just spam arcane and multi.
As for PvP, I feel so buffed it's pathetic. Before I was at least afraid of some classes like Warlocks, Shadow priests or even a good shaman. Now I look for warlocks as much as I used to look for mages. It's so easy to arcane, multi, silencing, renataki's and do it over again that it almost takes the fun out of it. It's almost unfortunate how much easier still the hunter class has become.
My question to this community is, what have you been doing on your raids to maximize sustainability during fights while at the same time increasing your DPS? Is there a way to climb the damage meters from where we were as a class last patch (usually almost dead last) to a respectable position or is the expensive mana costs a death sentence? Is imp. barrage even worth it for PvE or is it merely a PvP buff?
Yesterday we attempted to run Naxx, and wiped a few times at Anub before calling it (only Loatheb, 4H, Saph, and Kel have not been killed by us prior to this patch). I specced 7/44/0, with full Improved Arcane Shot (no Imp Barrage or Combat Experience). Someone earlier in the thread said that they didn't have any problems on Anub. You must be Alliance, and must've had access to both Blessing and Judgement of Wisdom, because as Horde without a shaman for totems, I found myself almost OOM in under 1 minute flat using max-ranked Multi-Shot and Arcane Shot.
Some things I did notice:
1) When I have mana, my overall DPS (personal + pet) is pretty much unmatched by everyone except AOE and the best-geared rogues.
2) Once I'm forced to downrank, I my personal DPS drops rather significantly.
3) Increased pet DPS and GFFT w/ Lighning Breath made it such that my overall (pet + personal) DPS didn't take as much of a hit when I downranked (as long as you're shooting the extra shots, you get the extra crits, so you get the extra LB ).
4) During one attempt when my pet died, my overall DPS dropped like a rock. The loss of Focus Fire, pet DPS, and GFFT+LB can really be felt. It was so bad that another hunter even asked me why my DPS was so low compared to the other attempts.
5) People really enjoy bitching about not having mods.
Mana is really at a premium for hunters now. On fights where we can't use pets to attack, we'll find ourselves taking a pretty big DPS hit. I really wish pets would show up on raid bars, because they're going to be an integral part of our DPS from now on.
"User is a tremendous douchenozzel"
-Actual EJ Forums feedback concerning Goreshot.
Personally I'm quite disappointed with the patch. Our DPS might be better, but I feel like a buttonspamming loon now, much like mages and warlocks (and rogues/warrior but they don't use mana :P).
I might have done less damage than I do now, but I felt trying to get my cycles right (pressing aimed shot just before autoshot actually fired for example) alot more enjoyable than just blowing stuff whenever the CD is up. You might get the occasional CD conflict between Arcane Shot and Multishot, but with the mana we are using at the moment that doesn't seem to be our number one concern at the moment. Not having to worry as much about mana as we do now was something else I liked alot about the class. I guess our insane mana usage solves our lack of consumables though, (major) mana pots ftw!
In PvP we're utterly imba. I don't think we ever lacked anything in PvP, so I'm quite surprised people say they've never had so much fun before as they do now. PvP is easy mode, especially with Silencing Shot vs those nasty casters (like we ever had a problem with them, oh well, perhaps a nasty shadow priest or good warlock) and Arcane Shot is pretty effective against mail/plate users, nothing challenging about it really. I barely use Aimed Shot at the moment, before the patch I couldn't live without it. I won't be surprised if we get nerfed somewhere along the way.
I feel that a Hunter has become less challenging to play, in PvP we've been made even better and in PvE we lost some of our complexity. All in all in my opinion the Hunter has become alot easier to play, which I think is a change for the worse.
EDIT: Forgot to add that I hope this is just temporarely and will change in the expansion, because we lack some of our spells we'll get in TBC.
We ventured into AQ40 last night, and with mana totem, minor mana oil, mage blood, and nightfin (i don't normally get this buffed for AQ40 raids, but i wanted to see our dps viability post patch), mana pots, along with Black Grasp, and was able to stay in the top 3 in the damage meters constantly. My dps is higher than its ever been before. I'm going to have to wait til we go into Naxx before placing judgement on hunter pve changes.
As for pvp, well I can pretty much say I agree with everyone here. Its too easy. I ran a premade group the other day with all 5 of our hunters showing up. We were literally making people explode. 2 of us were able to lockdown the graveyard by the alliance start point.
Although pallies and their SoC's are crazy right now as well.
As a BM hunters in BWL, I was consistantly 5th-7th in the damage meters no matter if it was warlocks or rogues in front (except for Nef... damn mage poly just before a hunter class call). I'm sure people will still getting used to things, but setting off Badge of the Swarmguard + Blood Fury + Rapid Fire + Beastial Wrath/The Beast Within allowed me to burst my way into the top few places and I just autoshot/full rank MS/Arcaned from there on to keep up top.
Scorpid Sting works against almost any mob as I found in BWL last night. I'm yet to try it in PvP but it should be useful against any physical damage dealer.
Has anyone got a system for using it in raids? I'm thinking of allocating each hunter to a particular tank and get them to use scorpid on their target for the mobs that require it. On fights where there is only a single target, the lowest dpsing hunter gets the honour.
Prior to the patch my guild had spent some days on Sapp, the rest of Naxx was farmable. Yestaday we went and did the spider wing + Noth. Currently I am 7/44/0 with a wind serpent.
Things I have noticed:
Mana is definately our dps limiting factor. Having said that with mageblood potions, greater mana potions, Night dragon breath, BoW and JoW I can almost keep a max rank rotation going for approximatley 5 mins. If I felt my mana was low without a consumable ready I used Multishot (max rank) + Arcane shot (max rank) then waited for Multishot CD before repeating, alowing one tick of mana regen (as oposed to spamming arcane shot).
Pet dps is definately significant, with GFTT being critical in a heavy MM build. Also if my pet dies I definately feel the difference in my DPS (focused fire + pet dps).
On Noth I think I came 2nd (to a warlock, 2 Mana pots, 4NBD), on trash top 3 (less then 2 min fights, so dont really need consumables), Anub'Reken 6th (aspect hunter). Cant remember the rest though I went through 60 water on basically 4 bosses where as pre patch I used 20 for 10 bosses.
Our damage potential is definately higher, but if we want to be top 3 dps on long fights its going to cost consumables. Going to try downranking next raid and see how it affects my dps, but I think I like being top 3 too much :(
I would assume that Arcane Shot resist rates being based on Weapon Skill is just a facet of the fact that spell resists are based on skill level. Firing an Arcane Shot at 280 Gun Skill would be similar to a 56 Mage casting a Fireball (280 Fire skill). A level 60 Mage tossing Fireballs at a level 59 target doesn't get bonus damage.
No, but he has much lower resist rates.
The thing is, mages can't get higher than max level to change their resist formulas against raid bosses; they have penetration and spellhit, but those (as I understand it) don't do the same things that +weaponskill does for us, if it does affect arcane shot resist rates. With enough skill you could completely eliminate arcane's resist rate (except the 1% cap IF it has it - which it probably doesn't since it's a physical attack in all other respects).
Hrm, after yesterday's raid results i really am quite glad with the changes.
Although buttonspamming is kinda annoying, downranking to arcane r1 and multi r1-r2 was an extremelly efficient way to keep up nonstop dps through 6 minute long fights without breaking a sweat, and the synergy between GFTT and a windserpent is absolutely beautiful, making it possible to pretty much always keep the pet at casting range, barfing LB's all the time. 7/41/3
I do miss shot rotations, though.
Here's to hoping steady and KC spice things up a tad more.
Scorpid Sting works against almost any mob as I found in BWL last night. I'm yet to try it in PvP but it should be useful against any physical damage dealer.
Has anyone got a system for using it in raids? I'm thinking of allocating each hunter to a particular tank and get them to use scorpid on their target for the mobs that require it. On fights where there is only a single target, the lowest dpsing hunter gets the honour.
We cleared the spider wing last night, and I kept scorpid sting on Faerlina and Maexxna to see if I could get any results. For the pull on Faerlina, I had the other two hunters put it up on the Followers. It showed up on the debuffs, but whether it was actually effective, I'm not sure. I'd also like some confirmation that Imp Hunter's Mark is actually working as well.
@Goreshot - Yes I'm Alliance, and we had one of our paladins spec Retribution to refresh Judgements constantly. I also had BGotD and 3/5 Striker's to help with overall mana cost.
Originally Posted by Praetorian
My sole vanity as a raid leader is to give myself an spriest at the expense of my fellow resto shamans. But they have better gear than I do, so fuck them.
Thank you for contacting the World of Warcraft Game Master Department.
Issue Reported: my base crit/agility is being calculated pretty much completely wrong, to test this i took off all my gear, as a level 60 night elf i have 130 base agi
the hunter mechanics change web site states that hunters now receive 1% per ~33 agi
130 / 33 = ~3.94 so i should have approximately 3.94% crit with no gear on at all, however on my character pane under both the ranged and melee stats, as well as my attack tooltip in the spellbook, i am only showing 2.22% crit, which comes out to ~58.5agi/crit
The issue reported above is not considered to be "broken" and should be functioning normally.
i did not find this reply to my gm ticket very encouraging
FWIW, I reported the crit thing too, and after giving a long description of it, the GM went afk for about 15 minutes, then:
If you're wondering, the other issue I was talking about was that my Stalker's Ally seems to bug out in Battlegrounds about half the times I res, and not apply even though my pet is out.
So he won't confirm that the crit thing is a bug, but "we are aware of it and I am forwarding it to a character specialist" seems a bit more promising than "working as intended".
Stalker's Ally does seem to be bugged, the old trick of stripping to 3 pieces and then putting all your CS back on is supposed to be able to fix it. Also, I haven't raided since Thursday, so I haven't gotten the opportunity to test out my /castrandom Multi Rank1.5 macro yet, anyone try it?
Also, on a side note, during my Spider Wing clear, I used Scorpid Sting all the time and my tanks didn't really notice an increase in miss rate. While the -5% hit may have in fact been applied, I think the increased healing from Earth Shield and stacking HoTs generally overshadowed it. Also, it costs more mana than Rank 1 Multishot, which makes me reluctant to actually keep applying it if the tanks don't really notice it. Maybe in actually challenging fights it'll be useful.
Kind of angry they made my favourite sting so crappy, though.
The stalkers ally bug is caused by the forced pet despawn upon zoning. 100% positive.
I can zone into a bg resummon my pet, but if I die it'll bug out. Takes like 5-6 gear strips (down to 3 piece) and pet re-summons to fix the damn thing.
Originally Posted by Relwin
If you need a shot macro to hold your hand then you are probably on the wrong forums.
So, I'm bored. When I'm bored, I do strange things, like pick a comedy build, and try to make it work.
This is one of those times.
I'm going to go 0/10/41, get a HWL Polearm, and go for the big Raptor Strike crits. I did the math, Mongoose Bite now scales with attack power and I'd be getting ~400 hits with it, 800+ crits. Raptor Strike has the potential to be critting for upwards of 1800. Mostly, I want the sheer absurdity of being a melee Hunter, and I want to see how well I can make this build possibly work. So, that being said, thoughts? I wouldn't mind Imp AotM, but I'd be giving up too much to get it.
So, I'm bored. When I'm bored, I do strange things, like pick a comedy build, and try to make it work.
This is one of those times.
I'm going to go 0/10/41, get a HWL Polearm, and go for the big Raptor Strike crits. I did the math, Mongoose Bite now scales with attack power and I'd be getting ~400 hits with it, 800+ crits. Raptor Strike has the potential to be critting for upwards of 1800. Mostly, I want the sheer absurdity of being a melee Hunter, and I want to see how well I can make this build possibly work. So, that being said, thoughts? I wouldn't mind Imp AotM, but I'd be giving up too much to get it.
If your going to play around with something like that then I think your better off going with the 10 extra points in BM tree for Endurance Training and Focused Fire/Thick Hide for survivability. Imp. Concussive doesn't do much good, and I think the extra HPs/AC from BM tree will help over the added AP from Imp. Mark. You would also get the bonus of 2% damage from Focus Fire.
I've really be enjoying my 39/12/0 build for pvp. I don't have all the tricks that MM/Surv does, or even full BM does, but my pet hits nice and hard, and with GFTT my pets always breathing lighting, which is great since it's not dealing with mitigation. I haven't had a chance to raid with it yet so I'll see later in the week.
Clever traps is almost useless for pvp except for diminishing returns. It will last 12 seconds twice instead of 12 secodns the first time and 10 seconds the second time. However, for instancing, it's one of the best talents to be combined with the -6 seconds to cd for trap talent. You can keep almost any mob locked down forever. I was just playing around in with the spec and it was very useful for the harder instances.
So, I'm bored. When I'm bored, I do strange things, like pick a comedy build, and try to make it work.
This is one of those times.
I'm going to go 0/10/41, get a HWL Polearm, and go for the big Raptor Strike crits. I did the math, Mongoose Bite now scales with attack power and I'd be getting ~400 hits with it, 800+ crits. Raptor Strike has the potential to be critting for upwards of 1800. Mostly, I want the sheer absurdity of being a melee Hunter, and I want to see how well I can make this build possibly work. So, that being said, thoughts? I wouldn't mind Imp AotM, but I'd be giving up too much to get it.
If your going to play around with something like that then I think your better off going with the 10 extra points in BM tree for Endurance Training and Focused Fire/Thick Hide for survivability. Imp. Concussive doesn't do much good, and I think the extra HPs/AC from BM tree will help over the added AP from Imp. Mark. You would also get the bonus of 2% damage from Focus Fire.
That's the thing, though. Even as a comedy melee hunter, there's still the issue of getting up front and personal with someone, and it's still not going to be 100% melee combat. After all, even a melee hunter can wind up a nice big multi arcane auto rotation before they conc shot and move in for the kill. I'm tossing up switching Imp. Concussive Shot with Lethal Shots, but in the case of fighting other ranged classes, getting range is probably more important than the initial blows that may or may not crit.
I've got a nice chunk of health from survivalist, and endurance training would be nice, but the ability to stun someone as I run up to them to wind up my massive raptor strike is extremely nice. By that same token, the focus fire buff is nice, but I'm pretty sure I'd be getting a bigger benefit from Imp. Hunter's Mark.
The best part of this build though, IMO, is that when classes see a Hunter they run up close to try and get into our deadzone. They certainly won't be expecting to see us close the rest of the distance with a smile on our face.
It amuses me and it isn't entirely without benefit at all! That said though, most classes that you would maul badly in melee range should or will know soon enough to stay the hell away.
For what it is worth, my baby Hunter (old mining/herb mule) in beta is still producing pretty silly numbers for raptors even as pure beast spec. He has nothing (literally) but TBC greens and still a fair amount of complete old-school +agil trash but he's still hitting 1500RAP with ~17% crit when I pop bloodthirst and one of the trinkets. Oh, I know well that this is crap compared even to T1 but the irony is that it is enough by a good margin. I sit at ~5500 HP, the pet at 4.2k with ~53% reduction and ~20% avoidance and well, it's enough is about all I can say. I won't (with this gear) dominate the PvE raid situations and I won't even be top dog in PvP. All combined though, even with my horrid gear I can do almost anything because the class has workable skillsets now. Soloing is amusing, killing quest-targets is completely possible and grouping I contribute and even on occasion shine. It's a good time to be a Hunter I think.
Clever traps is almost useless for pvp except for diminishing returns. It will last 12 seconds twice instead of 12 secodns the first time and 10 seconds the second time. However, for instancing, it's one of the best talents to be combined with the -6 seconds to cd for trap talent. You can keep almost any mob locked down forever. I was just playing around in with the spec and it was very useful for the harder instances.
Clever Traps wasn't designed to be used for buffing Freezing Trap, that was just a quirk about the diminishing returns system that no one noticed. Its real power is when you max out Entrapment and maybe put a point in Trap Mastery and start laying Frost Traps everywhere. Extra 9 seconds on Zone of Terror/AE Snare/Root? Yes please.
12/07/06, 1:56 PM
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