Hunter Mechanics -- v2.0/TBC
Decided that since I had the first post I'd go ahead and work on a summary. I will be going through the thread and linking/quoting the various things that we have worked out over the last few months. Feel free to PM me if I miss something.
Base Stats at 70:
The actual value used for all stat conversions is what is listed in your character sheet - 10. I have no idea why this is the case, but 10 of all your stats are ignored.
Agility - Your base agility (per the above table) converts to crit at a 63.3:1 ratio. Agility gained from buffs and gear converts to crit at a 40:1 ratio. Each point of agility provides 1 point of ranged attack power.
Crit Rating - Converts to crit at 22.1:1
Hit Rating - Converts to hit at 15.8:1
Hit rating / miss chance:
-The base miss chance against an even level opponent is 5.6%.
-For ranged attacks this increases by 1% for each level higher your target is (8.6% against a lvl 73 or skull mob)
-Some mobs have a higher defense rating which seems to affect these percentages. If you are hit capped (136 hit rating) and still miss occasionally, chances are the mob has a buffed defense rating.
Shots with a hidden "cast time":
- Auto shot has a hidden ~0.5 second "cast time" that appears to be related to character animation. This cast time can cause auto shot to be delayed by up to a half second if you activate an ability within this animation time.
- Multi shot has a true hidden 0.5 second cast time. This means you cannot cast a multi shot every 10 seconds, rather every 10.5.
- Arcane shot is a true instant and it may/may not trigger the auto shot cast time. It can be fired at the exact same time as an auto shot, using the same animation. It can also be fired a fraction of a second before and delay the subsequent auto shot.
A few of our tool tips are currently wrong. Below are the formulas for our main shots.
M - Current damage multiplier. All damage multipliers are added together multiplicatively.
S - Current weapon's unhasted speed.
Al - Ammo low (i.e. for 7.5 dps ammo Al is 7).
Ah - Ammo high (i.e for 7.5 dps ammo Ah is 8).
Sc - Scope damage.
rAP - Ranged attack power.
aDPS - Ammo dps.
wDPS - Raw weapon dps.
Threads of significance:
Lactose's HunterCraft post - http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread....sid=1&pageNo=2
Hunter Spreadsheet Development - http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t9816-hunter_spreadsheets_development/
Hunter AEP Discussion - http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t10433-hunter_aep_agility_equivalent_points_tbc_hunters/
D/L - http://files.filefront.com/HICS_30xl.../fileinfo.html
Thread - http://elitistjerks.com/showthread.php?t=9816
D/L - http://www.havoc-guild.us/Cheeky/Hunter_DPS_Calc.xls
Thread - http://elitistjerks.com/showthread.php?t=9816
LurchDawg's Gear Selection Spreadsheet
D/L - http://www.lurchington.com/misc/hunter_list.xls
D/L - http://www.vanirguild.com/storage/ShotSimulator.zip
Pet Stats at 70:
There is a complete table at: http://www.thottbot.com/?pet=all
Pet Scaling as of 2.0:
Pets get about 30% of the hunter's stamina added to their stamina.
Pets get about 35% of the hunter's armor added to their armor.
Pets get about 22% of the hunter's ranged attack power added to their melee attack power.
*Pets get about 12.5% of the hunter's ranged attack power added to their spell damage.
Pets get about 40% of the hunter's resistances added to their own resistances.
*Wind serpent's lightning breath was nerfed as of 2.0.10 and no longer gets this bonus.
Shot Rotation Macros:
Auto Shot can be used in a /castsequence macro and will not be clobbered
- Mark of Conquest procs off ranged attacks correctly and seems to provide between 30-35 mp5
- Hourglass of the Unraveller procs correctly off of ranged attacks and adds rAP
- Pets no longer trigger flame wreath.
- Pets do not shatter during the Gruul encounter. They do however freeze for extended periods of time and can be targeted by cave ins.
Global Cool is unaffected by haste effects. (Although it is affected by Heroism/Bloodlust)
So... 39/12/0? IS the point lost from SS to get 2/2 GFTT worth it? Or would 40/11/0 be more reasonable?
Eej's post seems to suggest he thinks that 2/2 GFTT is worth taking a point out of SS, but 4% haste to both you and your pet seems like a good chunk of DPS removed to me.
Whee. I was stuck wondering whether Careful Aim might be better than Imp Barrage or not. IB is sexier given my love for MS and the pvp grinding i expect to do the rest of the week, but it only applies to one expensive shot, while CA applies to everything :(
Apologies if this was covered in the 30ish pages of the thread I may have missed.
I think the last thing I posted before the thread broke was the most-likely-highest-DPS BM-based build.
Also I'd like to mention that lots of people seem to be overvaluing Improved Arcane Shot as a talent. It's poorly placed and it costs way too many talent points for its benefit. I'd wager it's actually better for PvP than it is for PvE, except that there's nothing I'd drop to pick up 5/5 Imp Arcane Shot.
[EDIT - Added Careful Aim vs Imp Barrage, GFTT later, maybe never because I can't get solid numbers yet]
For fun, we'll assume a deep Marks build with Focus Fire, so:
1500 RAP, 110 Hunter's Mark, 25% crit-rate
170 int buffed, Ashjre'thul (187 average damage)
Comparing 3/3 Careful Aim vs 3/3 Imp Barrage
45% of 170 int = 76.5 RAP
76.5 RAP / 14 = 5.46 DPS
5.46 * 1.05 * 1.02 = 5.85 DPS
5.85 + (5.85 * 1.30 * 0.25) = 7.75 DPS (factoring Crits in)
Increase in Autoshot DPS: 7.75 DPS
76.5 RAP * .20 = 15.3 Arcane Shot damage pre-everything
15.3 * 1.05 * 1.02 = 16.39 Base Arcane Shot Damage
16.39 + (16.39 * 1.30 * 0.25) = 21.71 Average Arcane Shot Damage
21.71 Damage / 6 Seconds = 3.62 DPS
Increase in Arcane Shot DPS: 3.62 DPS
76.5 RAP * .20 = 15.3 Multishot damage before stuff
15.3 * 1.05 * 1.02 * 1.15 = 18.84 Base Multishot Damage
18.84 + (18.84 * 1.30 * 0.25) = 24.96 Average Multishot Damage
24.96 Damage / 10 seconds = 2.49 DPS
Total DPS Increase: 13.86 DPS
1500 RAP, 110 Hunter's Mark, 22 DPS arrows, and just for shits 'n gig's, Rank 11 Gloves
1610 RAP * 0.20 = 322 damage from AP (normalized to 2.80 speed)
22 DPS * 2.80 seconds = 61.6 damage from Wicked Arrows
322 + 187 + 22 = 531 Multishot damage with Ashjre'thul before modifiers
531 * 1.05 * 1.02 * 1.19 = 676.75 Base Multishot Damage
676.75 + (676.75 * 1.30 * 0.25) = 896.69 Average Multishot Damage
896.69 Damage / 10 Seconds = 89.67 DPS
676.75 + (676.75 * 1.30 * 0.40) = 1028.66 Average Multishot Damage with 3/3 Imp Barrage
1028.66 Damage / 10 Seconds = 102.87 DPS
102.87 - 89.67 = 13.2 DPS
Total DPS Increase for Multi-Shot (Rank 1): 13.2 DPS
Say you wanted to burn a boss down with Max Rank Multis?
322 + 187 + 22 + 150 = 681 Damage before MAFFS
681 * 1.05 * 1.02 * 1.19 = 838.75 Base Multishot Damage
838.75 + (838.75 * 1.30 * 0.25) = 1111.34 Average Multishot Damage
1111.34 Damage / 10 Seconds = 111.13 DPS
838.75 + (838.75 * 1.30 * 0.40) = 1274.90 Average Multishot Damage with 3/3 Imp Barrage
1274.90 Damage / 10 Seconds = 127.49 DPS
127.49 - 111.13 = 16.36 DPS
Total DPS Increase for Multi-Shot (Rank 5): 16.36 DPS
Mind you, this is with Rank 11 Gloves, which everyone can get, but I'm not sure if everyone will use over Black Grasp. However, this was to maximize the effect of Multi-Shot, as you can see.
here's what i'm looking at as a pvp/pve hybrid build.
entrapment and silencing shot are too good not to have for group pvp IMO - similarly, imp barrage represents a ton of damage. losing efficiency is obviously a huge hit for PVE sustainability, but wth 9 piece CS and consumables i'm pretty sure i can suck it up in every fight outside of sapphiron.
edit: how do i fix this double posting :(
And I'm still not convinced that 2/2 GFTT > 4% Haste + 10% damage for 18 sec or even 4% Haste + Aimed (with a slow weapon).
Should be a nice combination for pvp/pve, and it will make the rogues happy as well.
Imp. Barrage is (X*0.15)*1.3 if you have Mortal Shots, or a 19.5% increase in Multi-shot damage at the cost of 3 talent points.
With Rhok and anything slower Imp. Barrage is more damage. I'd predict that even with the Huhuran's Stinger in your profile Imp. Barrage would net you a larger dps increase than Careful Aim. However, remember that you can't always use Multi-shot. There are Multi-shot unfriendly CC fights like Skeram, Hakkar, MajorDomo, etc. where you can't really use Multi-shot, so any points in Barrage and Imp. Barrage will be "useless" on those fights, whereas Careful Aim is a passive bonus that will increase the damage of all your attacks.
Imp Arcane is a PvP talent mostly, it doesn't add that much sustained dps as other talents (but it does add some).
i've been playing with them in the new form on beta for a while, but yeah, it's a weird change to get used to.
Rank 11, Rank 12, same thing, I've had these gloves forever now. In any case...
Okay so I sort of figured out how to model GFTT's contribution to damage.
First you get the damage of your Wind Serpent's Lightning Breath:
106 Average Nature Damage base
Then you add Spell Damage from RAP, which is where things already start to break down. What's a good level of RAP for a BM Hunter? Does Hunter's Mark add to your pet's Spell Power, since it increases your effective RAP? In any case, let's assume 1300 RAP.
1300 RAP * 0.125 Spell Damage/RAP * 0.43 Coefficient for instant cast = 69.89 additional damage
106 + 69.89 = 175.89 Damage Before Da Maths
175.89 * 1.25 (Well Fed) * 1.20 (Unleashed Fury) * 1.03 (Ferocious Inspiration) = 271.75 Base Damage
Another Problem: Does LB crit scale with Int? Or is it just a flat 5%? Assuming flat 5%:
271.75 + [271.75 * 0.50 * 0.15 (Ferocity)] = 292.13 Average Damage on Lightning Breath
So on average, when our LB spits hot lightning, he deals 292.13 Nature damage.
Assuming we still have our awesome 25% Crit-Rate and we're using a fast weapon, like say a High Warlord's Recurve (1.80 speed):
1.80 speed / [1.15 (Quiver) * 1.16 (Serpent's Swiftness)] = 1.35 Attack Speed
Problem: Modelling IAotH proc properly.
In a 1 minute timespan, you fire 44.44 Autoshots, 9 Arcane Shots and 6 Multi-Shots (assuming you started with Multi). I can't think properly right now but the Arcane Shot per minute should have a fraction. Regardless, that's 59.44 Shots, so 14.86 Crits per Minute. Or roughly 0.25 Crits per Second.
Everytime you crit, you get a free Lightning Breath, thus:
0.25 * 292.13 = 73 DPS increase. This is assuming that every time you crit, that 50 Focus is used on Lightning Breath and does not happen in a GCD such that it pushes the Serpent past 100 Focus and wastes the GFTT.
I'm fairly certain I screwed up somewhere, either that or GFTT is just that much better than I thought it would be. Plus I don't know how to properly model Imp AotH.
Thanks for the input on CA vs IB, I've more or less given up trying to model things myself, juggling a networking assignment and a new hunter spec, both due tonight :P
The choice isn't really between 3/3 CA vs 3/3 IB though, it's between 3 of one and 1 of the other - and 1 point in either seems like a decent investment in points.
So very tempted to ditch Hawk Eye and get both >.<
I was poking around the lvl 70 DPS spreadsheet that was posted here a while back, and it seemed to report very nice returns for switching points from Rapid Killing to Imp Arcane. Don't know how accurate it is since it wasn't updated in a while. Speccing Imp Arcane cuts down mana endurance quite a lot though, compared to the ~8 DPS it seems to add. I'll probably stick to RK if only for the trinket synchronicity and PvP fun.
edit: with AI, BoK and MotW I'm at 223 INT, so 3 points in CA = 223x.45x1.1 = 110 RAP, and 1 point in CA = 36.8 RAP :(
Fairly certain that 3/3 Imp Barrage and 1/3 Careful Aim is your best bet, seeing as Imp Barrage is the potentially greater talent (scales with Gear upgrades, but most significantly with Weapon upgrades, whereas Careful Aim only scales with your Int).
- Imp Concussive for Imp Hunter Mark or Efficiency
- Rapid Killing for GFTT (+ tame son of hakkar)
- Entrapment for Careful Aim
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