Consecration's coefficient was buffed. with 406 +dmg (including JotC), R1 was doing 56~57 per tick (448~456 damage), and Rank 5 was doing 96~97 (768~776 damage).
Base damage - 64 damage (8 DPS) for R1, 384 damage (48 DPS) for R5. That's an increase in 384~392 for both. That's somewhere between 94.5~96.6% of +dmg. Definitely a jump up from 76%. (Previous tested coefficient after 2.0)
I hear Avenger's Shield has a buffed coefficient as well.
Another random observation: While running guildies through BRD, I noticed RD (Righteous Defense) was able to affect a caster mob about 15~ yard's from the party member in question. Would be interesting to do some testing to see how far RD can hit. (It's more than melee range, at the very least)
Another random observation: While running guildies through BRD, I noticed RD (Righteous Defense) was able to affect a caster mob about 15~ yard's from the party member in question. Would be interesting to do some testing to see how far RD can hit. (It's more than melee range, at the very least)
I've always assumed range was unlimited, which is backed up by the thottbot entry on the debuff (http://thottbot.com/?sp=31790). As long as you are within 40 yards of the friendly target, anyway.
Unforunately, there's a bug/change in 2.0.3 where stunned mobs keep their targets(previous to this patch stunned mobs lost their targets until becoming unstunned), meaning it's a lot easier to waste the cd.
Another random observation: While running guildies through BRD, I noticed RD (Righteous Defense) was able to affect a caster mob about 15~ yard's from the party member in question. Would be interesting to do some testing to see how far RD can hit. (It's more than melee range, at the very least)
The RD taunt effect itself seems to have essentially unlimited range (I believe it's listed at 10000 yards in thott?). The 40 yard limit only applies to the friendly target. I've used this pretty often to 'assist' a long pull with relatively fast mobs (RD the puller as soon as they get into range).
Another random observation: While running guildies through BRD, I noticed RD (Righteous Defense) was able to affect a caster mob about 15~ yard's from the party member in question. Would be interesting to do some testing to see how far RD can hit. (It's more than melee range, at the very least)
I've always assumed range was unlimited, which is backed up by the thottbot entry on the debuff (http://thottbot.com/?sp=31790). As long as you are within 40 yards of the friendly target, anyway.
Unforunately, there's a bug/change in 2.0.3 where stunned mobs keep their targets(previous to this patch stunned mobs lost their targets until becoming unstunned), meaning it's a lot easier to waste the cd.
Is that a bad thing? There are times where I would like to be on top of the aggro list of a stunned monster when he wakes up. Does the RD not land on the monster in this case?
Example: Paladin -> Mob -> Priest. Paladin HOJs Mob who is attacking priest, RDs priest, will RD effect land on Mob? or will it have no effect and just blow CD?
Originally Posted by bartolimu
Believe it or not, I'm sorry it came to this. Not really intensely sorry, but that kind of mildly disappointed, resigned sorry that happens when I see a puppy walk head-first into a window, back up, stare bewildered at it for a second, then walk head-first into the window again.
If you have good weapons, and you should by now, full ret until like lvl 50 something, then a bit of holy to get more int and better heals. The whole reckoning thing isn't worth it with blue 3.0+speed weapons, and the whole prot+ret aura+shield+AE tanking doesn't look that hot to me because you're very limited in the number of spots you can use, which could be a problem if you're getting camped by bored level 64s ^^.
Past 60 you can keep going ret for leveling, go for prot leveling if you don't like downtimes, or full holy and only run instances as a healer(or prot and run them as a tank I guess). You could theorically do pure holy leveling once you get enough +dmg gear, around level 65 or so.
I'm not in beta, but I'll be going with my current 5/0/46 build (I've been gearing up with warrior-offcast gear, my spelldamage gear isn't that hot), getting spiritual focus then filling out Ret some more, probably ending up like this
I might try my hand at tanking at some point, if I do I'll go with something like this, with two points to go into either imp. judgement or shield spec or something.
I've found with ret spec, tanking is adequate, I'd only spec prot if I was going to be tanking quite a lot, because of the sheer amount of goodies you give up.
edit: fixed link borkage.
DeeNogger: "No dot timer? Get your belt off, its spanking time."
First 41 points going into ret first so that by level 51 you have all the damage talents (crusader strike, 5% crit, 2h spec, crusade, vengeance etc). Leveling to 60 without spiritual focus may sound crazy but between bubble, bop, hoj, repentance you won't really need the 70% chance to ignore casting time interruption for self healing imo and later on enough healing to keep on rolling.
The whole protection 1h reflectadin style is terrible for leveling because it's slow and only effective against fast weak hitting melee mobs. Holy shield and judgements in general without benediction and santified judgement (from the ret tree) chew through the mana and will cost you a bit in durability/repairs from all the hits you take.
My 25 cents
The universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements. Energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest.
Until the Paladin changes (some time ago) I was Holy/Protection (24/27). After they moved Holy Shield to 31 points, Repentence to Retribution, and Divine Favor to 21 points I don't think Holy Shield builds are very viable. Also, Reckoning no longer works as well as it used to in PVP.
For the 2v2 Arena bracket, especially when paired with a rogue, I think the Crusader Strike spec will be extremely viable. I find that my Judgement of Command crits for 1400-1800 (at level 60) on stunned targets and Crusader Strike also does fair damage. Further, you get the added benefit of Repentence which is a great clutch PVP ability to interrupt heals, etc. There is ample healing power if you have good gear and 20 points in Holy to spec this.
I think the Holy build is obviously very viable for both PVP and PVE. I imagine most people will favor a build with Seal of Command and possibly even Sanctity Aura. Personally I think I'll do the TBC version of the build I've been using in WOW, which is 42 holy 19 protection (32 19 in WOW). I favor Redoubt, Shield Spec, improved BOP/BOF, toughness, and improved HOJ over Seal of Command. This also allows you to get Kings. With the PVP or arena sets the cooldown of your HOJ will be reduced to 35s, which is extremely useful, and great for survivability 1v1 against classes like a rogue where a stun is needed for a large heal.
Seal of Righteousness does sufficient damage especially if you have a decent amount of spell damage (I have about 500 not including JotC at 60). My Seal judges for around 600, which you can spam every 10 seconds. I've found Judgement of Righteousness and a Divine Favor Holy Shock to be very useful burst DPS in the arena when you need to help your team kill a healer (or any player).
Divine Illumination is a fairly poor 41 point talent, but because the 21 point Protection talent is quite useless (if it was still Holy Shield, I'd of course go 40/21/0) there's no reason not to get it. I find myself actually using it to DPS sometimes, or when I'm going to do a few DPS moves and a heal. It's also great to activate when you use a Scroll of Blinding Light (or any like trinkets in TBC) for healing say a mortal strike target in the arena.
Admittedly I haven't played beta, but I've heard Paladins are quite viable tanks. I actually tanked our guilds' first several Noth kills in Naxxramus as a 32 holy 19 protection paladin because I could use Holy Shock/Exorcism to take aggro on Noth after he blinked. Those were funny kills -- on a few I was first in damage taken, and third in healing, because I would heal myself while tanking and then when he ported above the room, I would heal the raid. With Avenger's Shield hitting multiple mobs, consecrate, it shouldn't be difficult to hold aggro. What I'm more concerned about is that this focus (the idea that some paladins want to tank for some reason) seems to be degrading the Protection tree's purpose for PVP, whereby after improved HOJ/Spell Warding, there is nothing viable except Holy Shield. And Holy Shield, as a 31 point talent, is really not worth giving up Holy Shock for since it's only useful against Rogues, Warriors, and Hunters. Certainly the shield wall ability deep in the tree is compelling, but to get it for PVP you have to waste countless talent points. I'm hoping to see some added talents or changed talents in this tree to make it PVP-viable again.
RD does not work on magic resistant or reflective mobs (like the Arcane Chimarok's out in Ferelas). May prove to be a problem in TBC content with any sort of Arcane immunity.
No version is meant to be arcane, so report it as a bug if it seems to be acting as an arcane spell.
The point is taken that gimmick mobs with magic immunity that need to be taunted can't be paladin-tanked (or any mobs with magic immunity, since paladins rely on magic for tanking), but you could say gimmick mobs with physical immunity can't be tanked by warriors, and gimmick mobs that one-shot non-druids and say "I'm looking for a bear" can only be tanked by bears. Specific classes will be needed for specific fights, it's a given, but not worth worrying about until you actually encounter the mob with that gimmick.
I intend to level as 9/42/0, push more points in prot for slightly more damage, and respec to 10/41/10 for Deflection at 70. So far, the combination of SF and Reckoning has blown away everything else I've tried for grinding. Holy Shock and Crusader Strike tend to just sort of inhale mana, whereas I don't even drink pots when I'm not healing anymore.
Someone mentioned that they might level to 70 MT'ing everything like they did on the way to 60; this is basically my plan. I intend to hook up with healer friends, LFM DPS, and go from there for every instance so that there's just not any question and I get the experience before I hit hard content. I tanked live Strath last night with a mage wearing t3 and other Naxx dps gear nuking the place up. I held aggro with no problems as we blew through the place, so I imagine mitigation will be the main problem before I get real tanking gear. Bringing geared healers should alleviate that.
Anyhoo, I read somewhere that magic-immune mobs such as the Emps usually aren't immune to Holy. I've never gotten close enough to Vek'nilash to say hi, but if this is true isn't it safe to assume that future magic-immune bosses might behave in the same way?
Caster Emp is not immune to Holy nor Nature. SoR doesn't work on him because you need to actaully hit him in order to get a proc. It doesn't really matter tho because I really doubt there is any physical immune boss in any of the 5 men instances.
My roommate and I are both starting Paladins tonight. He's going for a fairly standard retnoob build and will end up tanking most stuff, and I am going to focus on +dmg/+healing so we don't overlap each other on gear so much and have minimal downtime. I have a pretty good idea about what I want to take for talents but less so what order to take them in. I plan on respeccing in the late 60s to a full healbot spec, but I'd rather avoid it for the first 50 levels or so. Am I off my rocker on any of these picks? All are full rank unless noted, ones that I'm not sure about I have in bold.
I intend to level as 9/42/0, push more points in prot for slightly more damage, and respec to 10/41/10 for Deflection at 70. So far, the combination of SF and Reckoning has blown away everything else I've tried for grinding. Holy Shock and Crusader Strike tend to just sort of inhale mana, whereas I don't even drink pots when I'm not healing anymore.
My plan is similar, except I'm starting with 20/31 - first point in Divine Favor. I'll probably stick with the 2-hander until I reach Zangwherever and get honored for the poison proc shield, then I'll see if I can find some AOE grinding locations and instances to tank. Even when I'm not explicitly AOE grinding, I suspect that being able to kill 5 or 6 mobs at once without breaking a sweat will be handy for clearing out camps of quest mobs.
He's going for a fairly standard retnoob build and will end up tanking most stuff, and I am going to focus on +dmg/+healing so we don't overlap each other on gear so much and have minimal downtime.
At that point I will probably dig in to the ret tree a little for the Judgment talents. Am I nuts at all?
There really isn't any gear to support +dmg/+healing (i.e. primarily Holy builds) until BRD. Early paladin "healing gear" is basically whatever has the most Intellect on it, cause the other stats don't exist. I'd really recommend you both level as ret until your early 50s, then start differentiating. Most people played their paladins like warriors until level 40 (some never stopped...), but thats essentially the departure point from other classes.
My roommate and I are both starting Paladins tonight. He's going for a fairly standard retnoob build and will end up tanking most stuff, and I am going to focus on +dmg/+healing so we don't overlap each other on gear so much and have minimal downtime. I have a pretty good idea about what I want to take for talents but less so what order to take them in. I plan on respeccing in the late 60s to a full healbot spec, but I'd rather avoid it for the first 50 levels or so. Am I off my rocker on any of these picks? All are full rank unless noted, ones that I'm not sure about I have in bold.
Looks fine for leveling. Not sure if DI is better than DS at low levels - +int is somewhat rare on mail, and you don't really need that much of it for a while. (This is from an Alliance PoV - BElfs don't have warriors, so itemization may be different for you.)
I'd personally get SF before iSoR - having uninterruptible heals opens up more options than having a little more damage. I also don't see the point in skipping Light's Grace. (I'd shift points in iBoW/Healing Lights/iSoR for it)
At that point I will probably dig in to the ret tree a little for the Judgment talents. Am I nuts at all?
There's no wrong spec. = D
(Though I will question the sanity of any paladin who skips SF without a *really* good reason)
There really isn't any gear to support +dmg/+healing (i.e. primarily Holy builds) until BRD. Early paladin "healing gear" is basically whatever has the most Intellect on it, cause the other stats don't exist. I'd really recommend you both level as ret until your early 50s, then start differentiating. Most people played their paladins like warriors until level 40 (some never stopped...), but thats essentially the departure point from other classes.
I was going to counter this with a statement about the new spellcaster suffixes in TBC, but then I realized that the code has been identical on live and on beta for the last few weeks and we aren't seeing any new suffixes on sub-60 items. Unless there's some magic flag that gets tripped you may be right. I have a big stockpile of 2hers and will be doing a lot of meleeing, I was just going to try to lean away from the pure melee stats to avoid gear overlap mostly. I guess that won't be a big issue until around 60 anyway. If we aren't seeing any of the new suffixes by the time I hit 15 or 21 points in Holy I may change plans a bit and dig in to Ret earlier.
@Fiola: I figured I would pass on Light's Grace since while we are leveling I won't be healing all that much in circumstances that would require me to chain heal. Once I go in to full on heal bot mode there is no question that it will be in my build. I figure by the time we're in the mid 30s the extra mana returned from having BoW up on both of us would outweigh the occasional faster heal.
Originally Posted by CheshireCat
Eh, my nostalgia goggles aren't as good as they used to be.
Pre T2 or lvl 60 PvP set there is no +dmg plate. I suppose you could wear +dmg mail but that's pretty thin on the ground also. Yet there's tons of warrior style plate (str/ap, crit) which is why most people recommend 41 ret for leveling.
With Arcanite/Arcane being so cheap now you could even twink your guy with some crafted plate eg: lionheart, titanic legs.
The universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements. Energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest.
I went Retribution from 1-40 then switched to Protection up through reckoning and then the rest went into Holy. I didn't notice a significant loss of DPS against melee mobs with the change, I did lose a bit against caster mobs. What i gained was the fact I could pull 4 even level melee mobs or 5-6 mobs a couple lvls lower than me at a time and kill them with no downtime using JoL and SoW and consecration. This was much faster than my retribution build, not even close. Problem is there aren't a ton of areas where pulling melee only mobs is viable.
01/11/07, 12:33 PM
in EJBSG 17 (soundtrack)
Similar Threads
