• Cryect

Did you read that he was deequipping an item and seeing how much it changes? Which is how you have to do it for all stats because there is a base amount added for most them.

I need to do something useless.

 

Vindicta

That number was my fault because I was thinking that the stat conversions were scaling at the same rate as the crit/dodge ratings which is very untrue. 35 agi doesn't sounds particularly unreasonable given the rates of other classes and hunters have always been slightly higher agility to crit than rogues.

 

Trazhenko

I believe he read very carefully. A ring with 17 agi was dequipped, and crit dropped approximately 0.5%.

However, you did not read very carefully. A ring with 17 agi plus sinister calling is actually giving you 19.55 agi. I did a very careful test last night (only level 67).

-I got naked holding nothing but my sword.
-I added 120 agi from items (no crit rating).
-My character sheet showed an increase in agi of 138, because I have sinister calling
-I divided the change in agi by the change in crit, and got about 37.4 agi per crit (at level 67 mind you, and yes, weapon skill was maxed).

35 is definitely too low. If the decay rate is linear, I expect it to be 41 at level 70.

 

Thromdul

On Beta I hit level 70, and it was 39-40 AGI per 1% crit for rogues. I can't confirm this now because I haven't hit 70 on live.

 

Vindicta

Well I am thinking that the Rogue agi to crit is 40 then since they've kept most of the agi:crit ratios whole numbers and even numbers. Im going to post it at 40 unless someone can prove otherwise.

 

• Glass

I'm not sure I get what you're asking. I was just asking if he had sinsiter calling because it would be adding 15% agility to any agility he has. It's total agility, not base afaik. So he would be getting 15% more crit from 17 agility than a rogue without sinister calling. But I don't do high end sub so take that for what it's worth. I'm not a number cruncher at heart for these types of things, but a rogue going from 29agi for 1% crit at 60, to 34agi for 1% crit to 70 is scaling FAR too great. 5 points for 10 levels seems more than a little wrong.

Also, don't forget Vindicta after 2.0 they changed hunters to get more crit per agility.

 

• Cryect

Wouldn't seem that bad not sure other melee classes only had a 5 agi change as well but then again thats a 25% boost in agi required while 5 agi more is only 17% increase for rogues (25% increase for rogues would be 36.25 Agi per crit). I misunderstood what you meant by the talent thought you were saying it increased crit by 15% (well that is what you said but you meant it in a different way than I interpreted). If we assume he had it then its 20AGI per 0.5% and the number seems right with what you were thinking. Heh anyways just need a 70 rogue to remove/add an item and see how much both his Agi and crit changes on his sheet.

I need to do something useless.

 

sp00n

My rogue:
424 agi = 10.31% crit
424/10.31= 41.13 agi per crit

427 agi = 10.38% crit
427/10.38 = 41.14 agi per crit

However:
Unequipping my ranged weapon [Mama's Insurance] with 10 agility, my crit rate decreased by 0.25%.

417 agi = 10.13% crit
471/10.13 = 41.16

If 10 agility is 0.25% crit chance, then:
1/(0.25/10)= 40 agility per crit

So, given the not so detailed character sheet, it is around 40-41 agility per crit.


For dodge, this 10 agility means a difference of exactly 0.5% dodge.
So it is quite safe to assume that rogues need 20 agility for 1% dodge.

Item Ranking Rogue [horribly outdated]

 

kharen

I am, actually. And i completely forgot about Sinister Calling. So yeah, somewhere around 40 seems about right. Makes me rather reticent to spec out of sub, thinking about it...

 

sulliwan

I got an even lower value for crit with my druid, something around 22 agi, but that is with all the feral talents which increase stats included.
And yes, stacking str/agi is way more beneficial for a druid than ratings or straight AP, 12 agi on cloak enchant gives a druid more dodge than 12 dodge rating enchant for example :P Still, the best feral items are not the ones with just str, agi, sta but the really rare ones which got a bit of AP or ratings added to the stats. For example [Cleansed Fel Pauldrons].

 

Phlis

Anyone have a 70 shaman yet?

 

Sancus

That's impossible. At level 60 it was 60.6, so you're claiming that it went DOWN almost 10 points while levelling up to 70? You must have made a mistake calculating this.

<Vontre> I removed the cooldown on evo
<sancus> and what happened?
<Vontre> DPS went down rofl

 

◊ Oggie

Shaman @70:
25 agl- 1% crit
76.4 int- 1% crit
25 agl- 1% dodge

edit:

wierd typo on dodge.

 

Jakiri

Make that 81.8/crit for warlocks, I didn't notice the +CR gems in my gloves and boots last time.

 

beann

Aye, warrior are at ~33.33. So it very well may be that druids have special formulas.

 

• frmorrison

If Shaman and Mages have 78.5 for a crit, it seems strange that warlocks would need more int. Not 70 yet, so I can't check.

 

Vindicta

Yep just confirmed 33.333333333 etc agi for a crit on my warrior. Dodge appears to be exactly 30.00 agility for 1% dodge for warriors.

 

Geo

Anyone do armor yet?

 

CrazyGamer

There's clearly a lot of inaccurate data in this thread so it would be nice if you could update the first post with your estimates on how accurate each individual rating is at the moment. If we have all of this presented as facts and change the information 3 times over, the myths won't be killed till sometimes after we reach level 80 in the next expansion.

http://www.defendersofvalor.net
\"Never trust anything that a man will not set his reputation and name upon.\" - Medivh

 

Sancus

Why does it seem strange? They needed more Int at level 60, so it stands to reason that they would still need more Int at 70. Warlocks have always needed the most Int per crit of all caster classes.

<Vontre> I removed the cooldown on evo
<sancus> and what happened?
<Vontre> DPS went down rofl

 

Jakiri

365 10.32
332 9.92
316 9.72
298 9.50
279 9.27
253 8.95
227 8.64
216 8.50

from removing pieces of gear with int and no crit rating. For all increments, it's greater than 80, and each estimation tends to be around the 81.something mark I gave above.

 

sp00n

So, I did some further testings on my rogue. But instead of finding out the exact amount for agility required, I am left with more questions than before.

At first, I did fiddle around with my equipment to exactly have 400 agility. If 40 agility did give 1% crit, 400 should give 10%. But that wasn't the case, it was only 9.71%. The agility requried for 10% crit is between 411 and 412 agility. I was able to narrow this down to between 41.113 and 41.118 agility for 1% crit.

At least I thought so.

Because after that I completely stripped my character. With the remaining 163 agility, without all gear and no buffs, the tooltip said 3.78% crit chance. But the value of 41 doesn't fit here at all, it is more in the range of 43 agility then (163/3.78= 43.12).
I then *also* noticed that the tooltip says that I only gain 153 AP for 163 agility. I double checked, and for 427 it also says +417 AP.

So... are the first 10 agility being completely neglected on calculations? Does agility "scale" in some weird, reversed way?

At the moment it doesn't make sense. Either the tooltip is bugged or something is wrong, or maybe a logical mistake on my side.

Then again, if I substract not 10 but 11.5 agility from the agility values, it seems to fit perfectly to the 40 agi per crit formula, beginning with (163-11.5)/40= 3.78 up to (427-11.5)/40= 10.38.


As I've said, more question than answers.

Item Ranking Rogue [horribly outdated]

 

beann

Many classes have bugged base stats. Hunters for instance have either 1) totally diff agility formulas used for their base stats, or 2) have a negative base chance to crit and dodge. I would wager that it is the same for rogues.

The only reliable way to test the formulas is to add and remove gear with agility on it but no crit or dodge rating and record the changes in paperdoll crit chance.

 

Vindicta

Thanks for all the info guys, still need the following info and/or confirmation:

Rogue

1% dodge = x agility

Shaman

1% crit = 25 Agility --- Unconfirmed
1% dodge = 25 Agility --- Unconfirmed
1% spell crit = 76.4 Intellect --- Unconfirmed

Priest

1% spell crit = x Intellect

Warlock

1% spell crit = 81.8 Intellect --- Unconfirmed

Paladin

1% crit = 25 Agility --- Unconfirmed
1% dodge = 25 Agility --- Unconfirmed
1% spell crit = x Intellect

I will only confirm things if more than 1 person of that class agrees and has tested it.

 

zeidrich

Well Sp00n, then you've derived the formula if that fits with all amount of agi. I don't see what questions there are left...

(AGI-11.5)/40 = crit rate.

211.5 is expected crit value at 70 for 5% crit chance.
Every 40 agi = +1 crit.
At 11.5 agi, you should have 0% crit rate.

AP has always been AGI - 10, STR - 10 for rogues I believe. As for most non-strength classes. (I know this was the case for all my casters, str - 10 AP since I never ever had gear that added AP or strength gear, and I always had like 66 attack power with 76 strength.)