• Cryect

I've been offtanking in Karazhan with more gear upgrades maintanking would be no issue. Currently my armor and defense is a little lower than I like (armor could be boosted more easily if I wasn't concerned mainly about the defense at the moment which is imo the first important part). I have a couple videos of me offtanking on a few additional bosses in Live I can post if people are interested.

Oh and btw what I found is HOT healing doesn't cut it in Karazhan since most damage in Karazhan is burst damage that needs to be instahealed back. Only place where I really use HOTs is on Netherspite and I'm tanking him 1/3 to 1/2 the time during that fight.

Edit: I should clarify the HOT healing was on another persons druid for Resto spec felt like cutting my wrists after forcing myself to try to use treeform for everything.

I need to do something useless.

 

Vindicta

Feral Druids are abolutely amazing now. The only thing they really had going against them before was that their itemization sucked and couldn't get enough defense to be crit immune. We are definitely going to field 1 Feral druid per raid who will double as dps and 3rd tank (sorry for the offtopic comment, but was responding to ruro).

That being said we're likely also going to look at a full resto tree HoT druid as well as a 36/0/25 for Imp Faerie fire. I know this means you can't get the 2/2 improved healing touch, but the 3% raid hit is a huge dps buff that really shouldn't be overlooked. It will affect the MT and at least 8-9 other players in the raid. I think 1 of each type of those types of druids will be a very strong raiding combination. The Imp Faerie fire druid will be our 'big heal' healer, the Full Resto tree druid our 'HoT' healer and a feral druid who has the highest threat output next to a thunderfury wielding prot warrior with a 5% crit buff to the 2 rogues, fury warrior and enhancement shaman in their group.

As for the actual mechanics of druid heals, I am no expert, but I would think that the druid that can pop in and out of form and play their entire class and all aspects of it will be the strongest druid regardless of spec. Even the lolcrit Feral druid is going to have to pop out once in a while and toss a quick regrowth+Rejuv somewhere then pop back into form.

 

Tuftears

Our guild alliance is fairly loose about such things, we've let druids tank in AQ40, though not in a primary role, it's mainly a criteria of who's around and who's better at tanking. If we have enough protection warriors who want to tank in a raid, it's better, in my thinking, that the feral druids go to DPS. If we're short healing, we really can't draft warriors to bandage people, so the druids have to pick up the slack.

I've been playing with lifebloom and rejuvenation in healing. I just don't feel that these are efficient uses of my mana regen/healing - too often the ticks are wasted because they're at full health anyway. I'd much rather spend time outside the 5-second window and throw a healing touch that heals the tank from half to full.

Edit: Addenda: here's my build. It's 28 feral, 33 resto. I'm at level 66, so close to being done; my levelling up is going into the feral side of the equation. I find that with my current gearing, I put out very competitive DPS, around 360 or so when someone else is tanking, and I still heal well for instances.

upstart feline miscreant (47 feral/14 resto)

 

• athanyel

I've actually been working on a spreadsheet for druid healing mechanics and checking it against the live realms. I should really look at posting that and getting some other numbers from more druids.

Where does Gift of Nature fit in?
...and lo, did 2.0 production FINALLY make Gift of Nature apply after everything. Thanks to Boevis for pointing this out. I've adjusted the math below to address the way Gift of Nature works.

What about my 8/8 Stormrage and Rejuvenation's healing co-efficient?
The rule of thumb is that coefficients are determined by the spell's cast time or duration if you were naked and untalented. Hence why Naturalist doesn't reduce the +healing applied to Healing Touch. In the same vein, 8/8 Stormrage doesn't increase the +healing applied to Rejuvenation. While less of a concern, it also means that 5/8 Stormrage doesn't reduce the already low +healing on the direct heal of Regrowth.

Quickie math:
Total healed by Rejuvenation with Gift of Nature, Improved Rejuv and Empowered Rejuvenation
(RJ+(healing*1.2)*0.8)*1.25
Healing Touch with Gift of Nature and Empowered Healing Touch:
(HT+healing*1.2)*1.1

Some thoughts of my own...
Now, here's something interesting. I've always understood that the +healing applied to Regrowth was divided equally to the HOT and the direct heal (DH). After the split, the casting time bonuses and penalties were applied. The math has always supported this when I've run the numbers. According to WoWWiki, I've been wrong...but their math doesn't result in my healing numbers...it's slightly off. My numbers, btw, are generated by standing around untalented and then varying my +healing via gear.

For Regrowth, WoWWiki says the +healing coefficient of the HOT is: +healing * [ (21/15) / ( (21/15) + (2/3.5) ) ]. With 822 +healing, this is 265.4 healed/tick. My understanding was that the +healing coefficient was: (+healing/2) * (21/15). This results in 264.2 healed/tick. In game, I get 264-265 healed/tick...so, it's close but I'd side with the number that would round up or down to the numbers generated in game (i.e. my math).

For Lifebloom, WoWWiki's got it spot on with the HOT. Mulitple passes with different +healing amounts results in the expected values. With the DH, the Regrowth math seems to apply: (+healing/2)*(1.5/3.5).

Anyone else run into this or done the math on Lifebloom and Regrowth for something semi-authoritative?

We are one, I am many. No, really...ask the guild.

 

Boevis

Re-check, beta doesn't mean much when it's been after +healing since 2.0 on live.

 

Boevis

Well, technically the 8/8 Stormrage set bonus does effect the coefficient, just depends on how you look at it.
Rejuv has a coef of 80% because it's 12sec/15. Because it gets split evenly between the 4 tics, you're looking at 20% per tic. No matter if you look at the 8/8 bonus as adding "another tic" or "3 more seconds" the end result is the exact same - 20% of your +healing per tic (before modifiers like Imp Rejuv, Emp Rejuv, or Gift of Nature which modify evenly)

 

• Melador

This is pretty much identical to what I've just specced, except that I took 5/5 Subtlety rather than 5/5 Nature's Focus. From my experience so far, I'm far more likely to pull aggro and eat a couple 5k+ hits in places like Karazhan than I am to be locked up due to lots of smaller hits on me. And if I'm really getting pounded on by something that isn't twoshotting me, I can always Rejuv->SM->NS->HT->Bear or somesuch.

So far, it feels like a nice well-rounded build. It's got some efficiency from the Balance tree (as well as the ability to solo/quest/pvp a bit), nice big HTs, and retains the ability to HoT and Swiftmend (which IMO has turned out to be every bit as indispensable a 31-point resto talent as Innervate was).

I wasn't impressed with ToL when I played around with it on beta, I wasn't impressed when I tried it after the 2.0 patch, and with the huge hitpoint pools that you're dealing with raiding at 70, I'm even less impressed with it. One of the most surprising things healing at 70 is that mobs hit HARD. Like, 4-5k regularly, even on well-geared tanks. I've found myself spamming HT13 on tanks surprisingly often (with +1100 healing or so) just to keep them up. My initial instinct was that ToL's lack of healing/sec was its Achilles heel (heal? /groan), and nothing at 70 has disabused me of that notion.

So given that, I think speccing just up to Swiftmend and synergizing with Balance is the way to go.

 

dekte

Thinking about a Druid ... lvl70, 800+Heal, idol +86 rev, 5 %Crit (for CF Critfactor)

Resto/Balance:

HT
(2952+800*1,2)*1,1*1,025(CF)=4409,55 Heal/3sec
935*0,81=757 Mana


ToL Spec:

Rev
(265+886*1,2*0,2)*1,25=597 Heal/3sec
415*0,8=332
LB
Hot: (273+800*0,46*1,2)*1,1 / 7 = 112 Heal/sec (3 stacks=336)
DH: (600+800*0,46)*1,1*1,025= 1090,6 Heal
220*0,8=176 Mana
RG
HoT: (1274+800*0,5*1,2)*1,1/7=275 Heal/3sec
DH: (1274+800*0,5*1,2)*1,1*1,25(CF) = 2411,75
845*0,8=676 Mana
SW
SW(Rev): 597*4= 2388 Heal
SW(RG): 275*6= 1650 Heal
379*0,8=303,2


Healcircle of 18sec

Resto/Balance
6*HT=6*4409,55=26457,3 Heal
6*757,35=4544,1 Mana

ToL Spec
LB-Rev-RG-LB-SW(Rev)-Rev-LB-RG
18 * 336 (LB) + 6 * 597 (Rev) + 2 * 2411,75 (RG-DH) + 6 * 275 (RG-HoT) + 1 * 2388 (SW-Rev)= 18491,5
3 * 176 (LB) + 2* 332 (Rev) + 2 * 676 (Reg) + 1 * 303,2 (SW) = 2847,2 Mana

Heal/sec
Resto/Balance = 1469,85
Tol Spec = 1027,3

Heal/Mana
Resto/Balance = 5,82
Tol Spec = 6,49

Mana/sec
Resto/Balance = 252,45
Tol Spec = 158,2


Resto/Balance has better Heal/sec for burstdmg. ToL has better Heal/Mana.
If you need more then 1100 Heal per second (with 800 +Heal) you better choose Resto/Balance.
If you don't need more then 1100 Heal per second, you better choose ToL for better Heal/mana.
(single Target calculation)


Not in calculation:
ToL Aura (just apply 40-100 +Heal)
Nature Grace (chance to proc is too small with 5%crit)
Nature Swiftness (3min CD)

 

◊ Lord BEEF

Does empowered rejuvenation apply to the initial heal of regrowth or just the heal over time portion?

Check out my friend's bitchin' Lord of the Rings Art

 

dekte

Just the HoT part of it.

 

• Melador

Well, it's not quite as simple as your "verdict" makes it sound. And, uh, your analysis is probably a bit too terse to be parsable.

Also, when talking about efficiency, you're assuming no overhealing. It's way easier to control overhealing when you're using HT than it is if you're using a lot of HoTs.

I'm flinding lifebloom to be great in 5-mans because it's really efficient and you can mentally keep track of when the payload is going to hit and only heal that target if you see that their health is getting scarily low. In 10-mans when you've got multiple healers, though, the payload is generally wasted because other healers aren't aware that it's incoming.

 

dekte

Expecting a Tank with 10k-16k HP and 1500 Dps .... If you keep him at 80-90 %, there will be no overhealing.

 

• Melador

If I keep him at 80-90%, yes. However I'm not the only healer in the raid, and they're generally not aware of all the HoTs on the tank. Especially lifebloom with its payload.

 

Monsanto

As a horde druid, you'll probably be allowed to tank until you reach the first boss that fears, and then you'll get yelled at and have to respec resto. And from what I understand, Blizzard's line about fear being scarce in the expansion (that's was the response to why the alliance get two fear ward races and the horde none) is a total crock. Fear is as plentiful in TBC as it was before.

I ran without NF for a while. It's all well and good for most fights, but then you get an encounter with pulsed AoE damage (like Vael or those little bastards on Gothik) and it's game over.

Druid: http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/ch...hol&n=Monzanto
Warrior: http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/ch...n=Thundershaft
Warlock: http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/ch...gos&n=Valdamar

 

Tuftears

I changed my mind about lifebloom, in 5-man instances where I'm the primary healer. I now think it's great - instead of trying to play rolling games with it, I treat it as a cheap throw-away heal to drop on anyone besides the MT. The scary-great thing about lifebloom is that it does just about as much healing as rejuvenation, but fires faster and costs less than rejuvenation. And that sound effect when Lifebloom fires lets your players know that you care about them.

That said, I don't think HoTs are going to be the healing game for anyone keeping a MT up under heavy fire where direct heals are feasible (i.e. not during Maexxna web wraps) - they'll be for keeping OTs and DPS alive. I'd still lean toward a HT-oriented build for raid healing.

upstart feline miscreant (47 feral/14 resto)

 

Monsanto

Actually, the best thing that Lifebloom has going for it is that it ticks every 1 second. Rejuv ticking every 3 seconds is a joke when it comes to overhealing, considering that most other healing classes have 1.5s fast heals or 2.5s slow heals.

Druid: http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/ch...hol&n=Monzanto
Warrior: http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/ch...n=Thundershaft
Warlock: http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/ch...gos&n=Valdamar

 

CasT

I have been doing some calculations on druid healing, trying to figure it out. I've come to the use of Idols and found something questionable and need some feedback.

[Idol of the Emerald Queen] adds 88 healing to the heal over time part. iLevel 112
[Gladiator's Idol of Tenacity] adds 80 + healing to the heal part. iLevel 115

The formula i'm useing is:
HoT part:
( 273+(( 'Bonus healing' + 'Idol' ) * 0,46 * ( 1+A )) * ( 1+B ) )

Heal
( 600 + (( 'Bonus healing' + 'Idol' ) * 0,46 * ( 1+A )) * ( 1+B ) )

A: Empowered Rejuvenation
B: Gift of Nature

0,46 Beeing the coefficient given by Wowwiki. Although Athinira has indicated other coefficients are beeing used. This formula seems pretty accurate when compared with my healing in-game.

With no GoN or Emp Rej and +500 Healing
HoT with idol
273+((500+88)*0,46= 544
Heal with idol
600+(500+80)*0,46 =867
HoT w/o idol
273+(500)*0,46= 503
Heal w/o idol
600+(500)*0,46=830

Differance
HoT - Idol of the Emerald Queen adds 544-503=41
Heal - Idol of Tenacity adds 867-830=37

So a blue Idol with less iLevel adds more healing than the epic Arena Idol.

My conclusion is: either the epic arena idol is less usefull(*) or there is one or more flaws in the calculations above.

*
I don't want this to turn into a debate wheter the HoT part or Heal part of Lifebloom is better, please only discuss the differance in the actual healing done

Do not matter how much you play, you will never get the carrot.

 

Mordinm

The numbers you get are pretty close and in full healing gear your spell crit my push the Idol of Tenacity over the top as the end can crit while the HoT tick cannot.

 

Keldor

Seems to me that the HoT spec would be most suited for FFA healing and supplimentary tank healing. The HT spec would be straight up MT healing. I think the choice in the spec could be chosen on what role you fill in the raid. I do not play a druid, so I could be totally off base.

 

panny

Is fear really that common? I haven't run the level 70 instances yet, but it seemed that most of the fear effects were actually "horror" effects like Death Coil.

 

• Mochiloc

HoT and HT!!

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...00401502031000

It's 5:30 AM, I used some fillers, it seems like a decent spec though

 

• Daboran

....and there we have the dilemma.

Yes, ToL seems to be the more support healing spec for raid-wide healing and a HT build the one for MT healing. Ironic that the "support" spec requires an almost exclusive investment in the Resto tree whereas a "main healer" spec actually encourages investment outside of Resto.

 

• Crowbite