Druid Healing specs: HoT vs. HT - Page 3

Beorn24 · 02/08/07, 12:39 AM

Yeah, it's almost like would you rather gimp your healing touch or your HoT spells? I'll keep a bigger, more efficient HT thanks, especially in a raid environment.

Darerer · 02/08/07, 6:58 AM

I'm trying to run the figures to find the exact efficiencies of each spec and so on, but my numbers don't seem to be adding up.

I was just wondering whether Improved Rejuvenation and Gift of Nature scaled with gear? If not, would the correct way to find the rejuvenation value before +healing comes into play be by multiplying the base amount it heals for by 1.25 (.15 for the 15% of improved rejuvenation and .10 for the 10% of Gift of Nature)

Do Tranquil Spirit and Moonglow stack in such a way as to make it -19% mana on Healing Touch?

Also, is 72% the correct +healing given to rejuvenation?

If it is 72%, would the +20% healing benefit talent make it 92% of +healing given to rejuvenation, or would it be +20% (14.4) of 72 -> 86.4%?

Finally, to find the amount a rejuv ticks for, do you just divide it's total heal by 4?

It'd be great if I could get some answers and see what the real comparison is, because from the numbers I have so far, it seems staggeringly in favour of the hybrid balance spec - Thanks :)

CasT · 02/08/07, 7:09 AM

Originally Posted by Darerer

I'm trying to run the figures to find the exact efficiencies of each spec and so on, but my numbers don't seem to be adding up.

I was just wondering whether Improved Rejuvenation and Gift of Nature scaled with gear? If not, would the correct way to find the rejuvenation value before +healing comes into play be by multiplying the base amount it heals for by 1.25 (.15 for the 15% of improved rejuvenation and .10 for the 10% of Gift of Nature)

Do Tranquil Spirit and Moonglow stack in such a way as to make it -19% mana on Healing Touch?

Also, is 72% the correct +healing given to rejuvenation?

If it is 72%, would the +20% healing benefit talent make it 92% of +healing given to rejuvenation, or would it be +20% (14.4) of 72 -> 86.4%?

Finally, to find the amount a rejuv ticks for, do you just divide it's total heal by 4?

It'd be great if I could get some answers and see what the real comparison is, because from the numbers I have so far, it seems staggeringly in favour of the hybrid balance spec - Thanks :)

I have a simple spreedsheet going on with the possibility to change some talents. But I don't have anywhere to upload it atm, and no gold to verify the results ;)

But the +healing coefficent you are looking for with rejuvenation is 12/15 and not 0.72.

[e]
Got the sheet uploaded to wikiupload

Have a look and try it out, if you find any errors in the results or formulas please let me know.

Vernichter · 02/08/07, 3:24 PM

Does anyone consider the synergy of Improved Regrowth and Nature's Grace to be worth pursuing? In several permutations with a talent calculator it was obvious that maximizing HT efficiency while retaining Imp. Regrowth and Nature's Grace was not practical, but I'd be curious to know if anyone is running with a Balance/Regrowth build instead of a Balance/HT build. In particular, it seems like using Imp. Regrowth to proc very fast Wraths would be quite useful in 5-man solo-healing situations or PvP, and that the decreased mana-cost and burstiness from Balance would make up for the loss in overall efficiency from Empowered Rejuvination. The build would also support huge burst healing with Crit Regrowth-> Swiftmend -> accelerated HT combinations. Does something like 27/0/34 Regrowth work for anyone?

Morgrath · 04/24/07, 9:14 AM

It seems to me that Living Spirit is pointless in a HoT build that doesn't include ToL (like a couple of people posted). Other than that aura, all spirit does is help with regen when you aren't casting, and as I'm sure you're aware, HoTting is extremely spammy.

As for the HT specs, I've recently specced into a balance/resto build out of a very heavy resto one. It remains to be seen how it goes for me, and I'll be sure to test the specs limits next time I'm in Kara. However, it looks promising, and this is the first time I've actually ever specced into balance. Worth a shot, I guess

Synwyn · 04/24/07, 8:03 PM

Originally Posted by Morgrath

It seems to me that Living Spirit is pointless in a HoT build that doesn't include ToL (like a couple of people posted). Other than that aura, all spirit does is help with regen when you aren't casting, and as I'm sure you're aware, HoTting is extremely spammy.

As for the HT specs, I've recently specced into a balance/resto build out of a very heavy resto one. It remains to be seen how it goes for me, and I'll be sure to test the specs limits next time I'm in Kara. However, it looks promising, and this is the first time I've actually ever specced into balance. Worth a shot, I guess

I recently did the same thing. However, I won't be able to test this in a raid situation for a little while as I've been extremely busy with work. Could you post back here with your pros and cons after you've tested it?

Lupison · 04/25/07, 1:07 PM

Here's my spec and I absolutely love it:
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...51031500131051

It's a hot build with 19 in feral (I consider it 21 feral cause of the Furor and Omen of Clarity).

I also have 600+ spirit, and as soon as Nightbane cooperates 660+ spirit (drop the stupid staff already you big worthless fireball) fully buffed with kings.

You have to remember this is raid healing. So my part in a raid is keeping everyone alive and giving our tanks as much +healing as elfingly possible. That massive spirit makes up for loss of the moonkin regen talent, and the spirit +healing makes up for the loss of hte +25% intellect +healing talent. My roll is not to be the one spaming the tank and off tank, it's negating that ae damage.

Treeform slowness can be somewhat negated by Boar's Speed on boots. You just get used to being slow. It's hard when you're a druid getting used to being slow, that's one of the things that attracted me to druids in the first place, they were teh supposed speed classes. Them and hunters. It's cruel joke making treeform slow. Treeform is also fairly cheap mana wise and insta so you can deform and reform if you're in the middle of an ae very quickly.

I absolutely love my job in raids. In 25 mans my job is to keep EVERYONE alive. In Kara I can be one of the 2 primary healers as well. We usually take 2 spec'ed healers + one non-spec healing class. You get used to tree form and it's limitations, your guild just has to understand that if you're in treeform there is absolutely no way you can be the healer that spams a tank all night. You just can't do that in tree form. And pretty much every encounter has ae damage nowadays. If we do run into another Patchwork just go treeform and spam lower ranks regrowth. You wont top the list but your +healing from 3 pallies spaming the tank is worth a heck of alot more then you spaming healing touch.

In normal 5mans I never run out of mana and heal just fine in treeform the whole time. I rarely have to go into spaming healing touch mode. Heck most of the time I'm using /sleep emote or jumping around flaping my giant limbs.

In 5mans heroics I can main heal fine for most of the dungeon, I just dont go tree form most of the time. I stay out and use healing touch mixed with hitting a lifebloom on the idiot melee. I do admit I ask that we bring atleast one off spec, or main spec, hybrid healer. If we bring another main spec I go cat form and do the off-healing on the bosses and hard pulls. I've actually made a decent balance +damage suit for the trash as well so I just spam wraith and off-heal-hot on the tougher pulls.

For cat farming and cat pvp I do "OK". I'm no warlock that's for sure. I wish I had the time and motivation to grow a mage or something to farm my gold with. I've even MT with 16k ac and sub par 350def and 25%dodge the "minor level 70 normal" instances without trouble.

impossible! · 04/25/07, 4:11 PM

Originally Posted by Lupison

Here's my spec and I absolutely love it:
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...51031500131051

Looking at the build, I'd rather take 5/5 Naturalist by dropping the one point invest in Furor, and trading Subtlety for 5/5 Improved Regrowth. Is Subtlety really needed as a ToL? HoTs only heal as much as they have to, and you won't be spamming constant big heals all over the place. Similarly, is a single point Furor really worth it over grabbing the last point needed for 5/5 Naturalist?

Just curious as to the reasoning.

Lupison · 04/25/07, 4:43 PM

Originally Posted by impossible!

Looking at the build, I'd rather take 5/5 Naturalist by dropping the one point invest in Furor, and trading Subtlety for 5/5 Improved Regrowth. Is Subtlety really needed as a ToL? HoTs only heal as much as they have to, and you won't be spamming constant big heals all over the place. Similarly, is a single point Furor really worth it over grabbing the last point needed for 5/5 Naturalist?

Just curious as to the reasoning.

Well the 5/5 Subtley is there becuase of Heroics where I do use Healing Touch alot. And that mythical 25 man boss where I'll have to spam regrowth in treeform.

The Furor was an experiment I never undid due to sheer laziness and not wanting to spend the gold.

Personally I didnt do Improved Regrowth becuase I wanted more points in Feral and Regrowth is the least likely spell I'll cast and a talent that barely affects it (atleast imo +50% to the chance that it might crit, and if it does crit at the wrong time I'm screwed) was the one talent I could live without. My gear build is on low crit rate as well, I use regen gems or even spirit gems instead.

If I ever do get unlazy and want to spend the gold I"ll adjust it by getting 0/5 Improved Regrowth, full Naturalist and drop Furor for Primal Fury or Shredding Attacks.

But right now I"m happy with the build and I'm on a "diet" when it comes to gold spending until I get 300skill speed.

Aszhalinde · 04/25/07, 5:27 PM

Originally Posted by impossible!

Is Subtlety really needed as a ToL? HoTs only heal as much as they have to, and you won't be spamming constant big heals all over the place.

Big heals only heal as much as they have to as well, in terms of aggro... overheal doesn't generate any additional aggro.

I've not found subtlety to be needed in the expansion so far. With the way -threat things work, stacking it with salvation only gives you (.5*.7)-(.5*.7*.8) ~7% less threat. After that I guess it gets anecdotal, but I haven't had a problem without it =)

Thelyna · 04/25/07, 6:22 PM

Aszhalinde, that's not quite correct. If you have Sub+Salv, you generate 280 threat from 1000 healing (1000*0.8*0.7*0.5). If you only have Salv you generate 350 threat (1000*0.7*0.5). With Sub you generate 20% less threat across the board.

It's also useful in five-mans, especially with the multi-mob nature of basically every instance in TBC.

Boevis · 04/25/07, 11:13 PM

Even being horde, where 3 paladins is rare and 2 is the common, I don't insist that healers have points in threat reduction or be given Salv. In almost every situation, Kings + Wisdom is going to work better for healers, if us tanks can't beat healer threat then we're the ones at fault, not the healers. Between Misdirect, PoM, and Earthshield, even if I wiff with my first attacks, the necessary healing on the pull should never get aggro.

That's raiding though, 5 mans is a whole different story.

Lupison · 04/26/07, 12:03 AM

I still don't know how you horde lived without Salvation for so long. Let alone Fear Ward.

Yeah you get totems for fear ward, but fear ward is so much more superior to it. I still dont understand why Blood Elves didnt get fear ward, most idiotic design flaw yet, I mean after all they gave each side the unique class "to even things up".

But before this thread gets hijacked...