Pixen

What are people thinking for enchants on their newly acquired tank gear? I'm currently having a dilemme over a new pair of tank gloves I picked up in Karazhan last night. Would a scaling 2% threat be better, or static 15 agi or 15 str? I'm leaning towards 2% threat at this point but I was just hoping for some feedback.

How about weapon enchants?

 

◊ Fellwraith

I'd go 2% threat, it increases the static threat generated by abilities like shieldslam and revenge and will scale much better than 15 str or 15 agi.

What do people think about mongoose as a tanking weapon enchant? The conventional wisdom used to be that 15 agi was the best 1h tanking weapon enchant, but an attack speed increase + 120 agi seems pretty damn good. I'd also like to see how battlemaster worked as an enchant. If it attributes the healing to the weapon wielder (similar to a prayer of mending - "mulack's battlemaster heals you for 250") then it could have some interesting aggro generation possibilities in defensive stance.

 

suicuique

I'd go for 2% threat.
In fact I have the mats banked till I get some gloves upgrade for my Dreandnaughts.
Are there some obtainable by some Quest? Atm the only real upgrades I see are in Karazhan (T4 and Maiden)

As for Moongoose and Battlemaster ... it all depends on the proc chance.
If both proc like Crusader e.g. it would be heaven (though I'd prefer Moongoose).

If on the other hand they proc like icy chill ... I'd save the mats.

 

Pixen

I don't think you'll find any dnaught upgrades from quests (gloves), I upgraded from Wrath to green quest rewards at 70 and then iron maiden gloves last night. I'm leaning towards 2% threat myself.

 

Uziel

There is a leatherworking armor kit that gives 8 stamina. I will be using this on my gloves.

 

◊ Twid

This is a topic that's been ongoing in our guild forums, and the gloves were pretty much the only enchant that we were having trouble deciding on. Mongoose on a tanking weapon at 1ppm and a 15 second buff (a la crusader), would be 15 seconds of 120 agility every 60, though with the attack speed increase, the proc itself increases its uptime. If that's true, it's almost twice as good for mitigation as 15 agility, and when you factor in instant attacks while tanking, the value increases.

Our general consensus was that for gloves, if you are defense capped, go for 15 agility. The only other option is to put an 8 stam armor kit on the gloves, which would be good for a resist tanking set.

Here is the list of tanking enchants that we'll be shooting for, though some are more material heavy than others, and also dependent on having access to the recipes.

Materials Abbreviations:
LPS - Large Prismatic Shard
GPE - Greater Primal Essence
AD - Arcane Dust

Old school mats:
LBS - Large Brilliant Shard
GEE - Greater Eternal Essence
ID - Illusion Dust

Helm: Glyph of the Defender - 16 Defense Rating, 17 Dodge Rating - Keepers of Time Revered - 90 gold
Shoulder: Aldor/Scryer Exalted Inscription - Exalted Reputation with either faction
Cloak: Dodge - 12 Dodge Rating - 3 Nexus, 8 LBS, 8 Guardian Stones
Chest: Exceptional Stats - 6 all stats - 4 LPS, 4 AD, 4 GPE
Bracers: Fortitude - 12 stam - 1 LPS, 10 GPE, 20 AD
Gloves: Knothide Armor Kit - 8 stam - 5 Knothide Leather, OR Vindicator's Armor Kit - 8 defense rating - 3 Knothide Leather, 1 Primal Earth OR 15 agility - 3 Nexus, 8 LBS, 4 Essence of Air
Boots: Boar's Speed - 9 stam and run speed - 8 LPS, 8 Primal Earth
Weapon: Agility - Mongoose - 6 Void crystals, 10 LPS, 40 AD, 8 GPE
Shield: Major Stamina - 18 stam - 15 AD
Legs: Nethercleft Leg Armor - 35 stam 12 agi - Heavy Knothide Leather (4), Thick Clefthoof Leather (16), Primal Earth (8), Primal Nether

[13:45] <kenlyric> goddammit, I wish google news had a "only real news" alert.
[13:45] <Kalman> I wish journalists had one.

On the topic of Knight Rider:
<Vontre> What is a KITT?
<Nite_Moogle> jesus christ vontre were you in a test tube until 1995?

 

• frmorrison

For Chest you think 6 to all stats (so 60 health, 12 attack power, and 6 agility) is better than 150 health for tanking?

For boots (at least for tanking), 12 stamina seems better (and a lot cheaper).

While 2% threat seems to be the best gloves enchant, 8 stamina seems better than 15 str or agility or even 8 defense rating.


I have heard Battlemaster is a .5 PPM , it does a 150-300 30 yd heal. Mongoose heard has a 1 PPM, and seems to be far superior to Crusader (since it has been nerfed).

Know Thy group function; Thy DPS shall avoid aggro, Thy tank shall not attempt to DPS, and Thy Healer shall not go AFK without notifying Thy group.

 

◊ Twid

I prefer to boost the actual stats on the chest rather than boosting just the health value.

6 stamina, 6 agility becomes almost 7 stam 7 agility when you factor in Vitality and Blessing of Kings. so the difference between the two enchants is whether you want 80 health, or 0.23% dodge.

It's definitely a judgment call, so I'd be curious how other tanks value the extra dodge versus the 80 health.

[13:45] <kenlyric> goddammit, I wish google news had a "only real news" alert.
[13:45] <Kalman> I wish journalists had one.

On the topic of Knight Rider:
<Vontre> What is a KITT?
<Nite_Moogle> jesus christ vontre were you in a test tube until 1995?

 

Suesse

My intuition is that the health is superior. Bad luck strikes and you may never dodge/parry, but the health will be there to save you in the worst case. Since you mention 0.23% dodge... isn't it also 14 armor?

 

◊ Fellwraith

There seems to be a lot of emphasis on some of the smaller stamina enchants over aggro generation.

With our attack power going down a fair amount, our base abilities not scaling up as quickly, and other class' dps increasing - has anyone had a problem with threat generation yet? I'm wondering if it might not be a bad idea to sacrifice 80-90hp here and there for 2% more threat or 12 more AP/crit.

 

Suesse

I'm not there yet, but we do get a few threat generation increases from other classes. Prayer of mending generates healing aggro for us, and the hunter's misdirection increases our threat. Warlocks and mages have gained new threat reduction/dropping abilities. Since you're an orc, I guess you gain salvation.

Is the attack power decrease you're talking about related to itemization or that we'll no longer have battleshout up?

One of my priorities for generating threat is getting the best threat weapon I can as quickly as possible. When I went from QS to EoC, I was amazed at how much my total threat generation increased (it was something like 4%).

 

Exigent

Why not go with 12 agility? 12 Dodge rating is 0.63% dodge at level 70, while 12 agility is 0.60% dodge, 0.36% crit, and 24 armor. Agility is easier to get done for me these days and the enchants are comparable.

 

◊ Twid

According to the stat conversion thread in this forum, 30 agility = 1% dodge. At this ratio, 12 agility equals 0.4% dodge. Even with Blessing of Kings, it is only 0.44% dodge.

[13:45] <kenlyric> goddammit, I wish google news had a "only real news" alert.
[13:45] <Kalman> I wish journalists had one.

On the topic of Knight Rider:
<Vontre> What is a KITT?
<Nite_Moogle> jesus christ vontre were you in a test tube until 1995?

 

Leath

Is this the same with shaman's earth shield?

 

• RK

Yes. Earth Shield generates healing aggro for the person it's on.

This came in handy during our level 60 zerg Karazhan farming, otherwise the tank wouldn't have a chance in hell of keeping aggro on anything (let alone multiple mobs at once. It was extremely obvious to everyone when the earth shield had run out without being renewed.

 

Ry

Don't forget [Silver Spellthread]. I know its silly but if you're not willing to commit to an expensive enchant on your legs, this one is good and very cheap to make.

As a bonus the +46 healing works for your [Diamond Flask] if you still have one. :)

 

Ultramax

How is silver spell thread cheaper than Clefthoof?

 

slitz

I'm kinda disappointed about Glyph of the Defender (16 Defense Rating, 17 Dodge Rating) being imo inferior to Presence of Might from Zul'Gurub (10 Stamina, 10 Defense Rating, 15 to Block Value), but not sure I can be bothered to farm Zul'Gurub every single time I get a head piece upgrade that I feel worthy of a enchant.
Am I an idiot for picking 15 to Block Value and 10 stamina over 6 Defense Rating and 17 Dodge Rating?

 

suicuique

No you're not.
I already used 2 ZG enchants on 2 helms bacause I somehow assumed the new helm enchant would be clearly better in all cases, but will keep the 3rd one banked ... in case a definite helm upgrade with high stamina surfaces or block value is needed.

The KoT enchant is oviously better for a mitigation helm. In a fight with heavy physical damage i'd take 17 dodge rating anytime over 10 STA. Even more so when you consider that the higher your avoidance mitigation gets the more each % dodge/parry is worth.

On the other hand the KoT enchant does nothing in a caster heavy encounter.

So I'm torn myself.

 

◊ Fellwraith

No, the same thought has been bouncing around my head too. The ZG enchant seems a bit more well-rounded and actually benefits a bit from talents. The block value is 19.5 when you factor in shield mastery and vitality nets you 105 hp if you hit a break point and round up. The hard part is getting people to actually want to run ZG. I don't think other classes benefit as much from their ZG enchant.

If the other enchant had stamina on it, I'd probably view it in a better light.

 

• frmorrison

Locks enchant is 18 damage/10 stamina, while the Sha'tar enchant is 22 damage. The ZG one is better for those two classes in general.

Know Thy group function; Thy DPS shall avoid aggro, Thy tank shall not attempt to DPS, and Thy Healer shall not go AFK without notifying Thy group.

 

Ry

Primal Life is less than half the cost of Earth on my server. Seems that you get tons of it as an herbalist and there's not that many people using it.

 

Gyshall

I spent all of twenty minutes farming out a few of the mats for Clefthoof. Primal Earths are stupidly easy to obtain as a miner.

 

Exigent

Can someone confirm this? When I made the comment about 12 agility, I'd found it to be 0.6% dodge by simply equipping and then removing my Ring of Emperor Vek'lor, which adds exactly 12 agility. Was I high, blind or is there something else here at work that I have overlooked? I had no buffs at the time.

 

◊ Twid

[13:45] <kenlyric> goddammit, I wish google news had a "only real news" alert.
[13:45] <Kalman> I wish journalists had one.