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Old 04/15/07, 8:50 AM   #271
Miaxi
Don Flamenco
 
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Troll Shaman
 
Al'Akir (EU)
My guess is that we will be forced to use tier sets, mana reduction relics and their "class trinkets" just to reach some level of sustainability with this change instead of having free gear choice. It's the Earthfury story all over again and I don't like it at all. -.-#

This is even worse due to the fact that we still get only one tier 4 pants/chest per week - what's up with that anyway? [/rant]

Edit: To illustrate my point a little better...

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=30663 - Fathom-Brooch of the Tidewalker was deemed unnecessary because Elemental Focus would provide us with sufficient mana. This change kills our sustainability, making this trinket very desirable.
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29389 - Totem of the Pulsing Earth was changed to a reduction of 24mp on test servers. That is still diminished by talents, giving an effective reduction of 22mp after Convection. While currently deemed trash, the efficiency boost will become highly desirable after the change.
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=37237 and http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=37237 - The 4-piece bonuses of our tiered epic sets all give sustainability bonuses. The big downside is that we get forced to keep a worse piece just for the set bonus and pick up higher tier loot for the bank till we reach 4 parts.


So in conclusion, instead of making our itemization more desirable in proper ways, they force us to take it just to be able to function at all. That balances things out for progressing raiders but leaves people without weekly access to tier 5 instances behind. This also makes sure that people with arena gear will not be able to function in a raid environment.


Last edited by Miaxi : 04/15/07 at 9:07 AM.

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Old 04/15/07, 3:42 PM   #272
Muroka
Glass Joe
 
Orc Shaman
 
Doomhammer
Pretty sure the relics that reduce mana cost of lightning bolt get the full effect. They don't care about convection.

Did some testing with Fathom-Brooch on test and the procrate was less than 5%. I doubt that I'll use it ever.

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Old 04/15/07, 3:55 PM   #273
Miaxi
Don Flamenco
 
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Troll Shaman
 
Al'Akir (EU)
Originally Posted by Muroka View Post
Pretty sure the relics that reduce mana cost of lightning bolt get the full effect. They don't care about convection.
They do actually. These are the tooltips I get with 5/5 convection:

LB12 without totem: 297
LB12 with Totem of Lightning: 283 (difference of 14, relic tooltip promises 15)
LB12 with Totem of Pulsing Earth: 275 (difference of 22, relic tooltip promises 24)

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Old 04/15/07, 5:06 PM   #274
Binkenstein
mumbo-jumbo-theorycrafter
 
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Pandaren Shaman
 
Saurfang
Had a look at the PTR yesterday, relic definitely says 24.

Would try to test it out when I get home, but I'd need to farm another 15 tokens (why can't they change 1 token cost to 1g for the PTR?)

Personally, I think this nerf was always going to happen, as all elemental shaman had to do was stack int/crit/dmg
Now they have to look at regen as well, and the T4/SSC trinket regen options as well. (Has anyone established whether that SSC trinket works on heals too?)

Last edited by Binkenstein : 04/15/07 at 5:19 PM.

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Old 04/15/07, 8:33 PM   #275
RK
Such a Cassandra
 
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Tauren Shaman
 
Shu'halo
Originally Posted by Miaxi View Post
They do actually. These are the tooltips I get with 5/5 convection:

LB12 without totem: 297
LB12 with Totem of Lightning: 283 (difference of 14, relic tooltip promises 15)
LB12 with Totem of Pulsing Earth: 275 (difference of 22, relic tooltip promises 24)
Bug report it on the PTR and hope. I guess 2 mana per LB is not going to make or break, but it's the principle of the thing.

Originally Posted by Binkenstein
Personally, I think this nerf was always going to happen, as all elemental shaman had to do was stack int/crit/dmg
I don't see why that matters. Mages and locks and shadow priests aren't being forced to stack every possible caster stat either.

A change to water shield that makes it into passive regen is a common idea that would really go a long way to counterbalancing this nerf and helping out resto shaman as well (not to mention making it useful).

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Old 04/15/07, 9:22 PM   #276
Binkenstein
mumbo-jumbo-theorycrafter
 
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Pandaren Shaman
 
Saurfang
Originally Posted by RK View Post
I don't see why that matters. Mages and locks and shadow priests aren't being forced to stack every possible caster stat either.

A change to water shield that makes it into passive regen is a common idea that would really go a long way to counterbalancing this nerf and helping out resto shaman as well (not to mention making it useful).
Mages have Evocate, and thus stack spirit, and locks have various other regen mechanics.

They've had these from the get go, whereas our regen mechanics have been rather abysmal.

A passive bonus from shields would certainly be nice, but somehow I don't think that blizz will think of that. ES giving a hp5 bonus, WS mp5, LS a dmg bonus to lightning spells would be nice, and give us a bit more flexibility in our shield choices, even if they still retain the charge mechanics

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Old 04/16/07, 12:34 AM   #277
desertswarm
Von Kaiser
 
Undead Priest
 
Daggerspine
Originally Posted by Binkenstein View Post
Mages have Evocate, and thus stack spirit, and locks have various other regen mechanics.

They've had these from the get go, whereas our regen mechanics have been rather abysmal.

A passive bonus from shields would certainly be nice, but somehow I don't think that blizz will think of that. ES giving a hp5 bonus, WS mp5, LS a dmg bonus to lightning spells would be nice, and give us a bit more flexibility in our shield choices, even if they still retain the charge mechanics
Those shield changes would be very welcome and certianly be nice additions.

I do not know any mages that stack spirit.. They may have a spirit set for grinding evocates but otherwise its rather low on their priority list of stats.

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Old 04/16/07, 12:51 AM   #278
RK
Such a Cassandra
 
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Tauren Shaman
 
Shu'halo
Yeah, most mages (including the mage threads here) will bemoan itemisation points spent on spirit as wasted. Hardcore mages will own a spirit-heavy staff with a spirit enchant to weapon-swap in at evocate time, but that's it. Mages stack damage and crit and take the int they get given. Warlocks stack stam and damage, and also crit and hit if they're destruction rather than affliction. Shadow priests stack dmg.

Actually, it's that last one more than anything. Ele shaman shouldn't be as good DPS as mages or warlocks anyway. It's fair enough that mages and warlocks are better, since shaman provide more buffs and utility. But to argue that ele shaman should have to focus on a wider variety of stats while shadow priests have their current mechanics is silly. If that was a real rationale, shadow priest mechanics would be changed too.

Some kind of statement as to what Blizzard want shaman to be capable of is really needed. It's a bit of an official forums complaint-post favourite to say that Blizzard never post to the official shaman forum, but it's true nonetheless. We don't know why the nerfed ele shaman. Is it because they don't intend ele to be raid viable? Is it because they legit thought it was scaling too well? No-one has any idea. I was probably going to end up resto again anyway once our focus is on 25-man instead of Kara, but I really feel for those who are currently raiding 25-man as elemental and taking gear accordingly and who may end up in the cold because of this.

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Old 04/16/07, 12:55 AM   #279
Binkenstein
mumbo-jumbo-theorycrafter
 
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Pandaren Shaman
 
Saurfang
Originally Posted by desertswarm View Post
Those shield changes would be very welcome and certianly be nice additions.

I do not know any mages that stack spirit.. They may have a spirit set for grinding evocates but otherwise its rather low on their priority list of stats.
You'll notice that on any mage items, there will be spirit. Probably a bit more than what we get, but they have that nice 1400% regen button, in addition to mana gems, as innate regen methods.

And IIRC Mages have a Spirit/4 divisor rather than our Spirit/5 for mana regen.

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