aartamen

It's in the sheet, it just does not trigger Blue condition for gem bonuses. At least on the engineering goggles.

 

Female Tauren

I gotta ask this since I've heard both answers, do hunter shots use the 1 roll or 2 roll system?

 

◊ Lactose

I use a 1-roll system. There hasn't been any conclusive tests as far as I've seen.
For Hunters, it doesn't have a great impact, though, due to us not being subject to dodge, parry, glancing, or the dual wield miss penalty.

Look, Lactose, we'd rather you didn't eradicate the whole human race.
- Sam & Max

 

Female Tauren

In that case, would you say that HR is still better than CR when I'm not hit capped, then? HR clearly wins for a 2 roll system but can CR be better otherwise, due to mortal shots?

 

Elithuzad

Void Reaver Greaves, isnt showing the correct vaules in the spreadsheet. Other then that this is as have been said before, a very helpful addition to the Hunter Community.

Item in question: Void Reaver Greaves

Keep it up

 

Pesmerga

I just checked the spreadsheet (Version 20) and it has the correct values listed for the Void Reaver Greaves:

787 Armor, 37 Agility, 33 Stamina, 24 Intellect, 88 AP, R, Y, B Sockets, and a +4 Agility socket bonus.

 

Grondarg

I was recently trying to develop my own spreadsheet on mana usage with a shot rotation with my current spec. While talking with a fellow guildie hunter he mentioned your site and I came here. After seeing this thread I downloaded Cheeky's spreadsheet to check it out. I like it a lot. I do have a question and a bug report.

First the bug report. When I apply abacus of violent odds in my shot rotation it breaks the damage totals from that point on in the rotation.

If i set up a normal priority rotation with just Multi and Steady it lists my total dps as 1609.93dps. If i set up the same rotation but use Multi and Arcane it lists my total dps as 1558.94. Obviously the difference in mitigation types (arcane resist/armor) would change these numbers. Will you be adding the ability to factor in the differences in damage mitigation any time soon?

 

Cheeky

Thanks for the bug report. I tracked it to a column problem in the Trinket database. Next version will have this fixed.

Arcane resist is a mechanic I don't have enough information to model. Right now I assume no resists at all. For armor, you can set the target's armor value on the gear page. All physical damage takes the armor into account.

Cheeky of Havoc

 

• Glaurong

For boss mobs all of your partial resists will average out to a 5% damage reduction that cannot be mitigated by any means. This is completely independent of a resistance score which 99.99% of the time will be negated by CoS.

Spell hit is irrelevant since arcane shot uses our shot hit mechanics.

Log Parser for BM Hunters (Right click, save as) - Updated 10/11/2007

 

Elithuzad

I get them as 291 Armor, 27 Agi, 11 AP.
Downloaded version 20 again, just to make sure, and its still showing incorrect vaules.

 

Hunterlin

I have same spreadsheet.
I do get correct stats for Void reaver greaves, but item listed with stats that you wrote is Windrunner Legguards.
May be try to reselect your legs

 

Elithuzad

Ive tried that as well, and even downloaded it a third time, and selected, reselected it.
Still the windrunner stats, ive added them as custom (very neat function), so no biggie.
And since i seem to be the only one with this porblem, ill leave it at that.
Cheers for the replys though, appreciated.

 

Pesmerga

I've also noticed a bug when using Custom Gear. If I put resilience on custom gear, and use it on the gear sheet, three different things happen, based on slot:

1. Main Hand, Off Hand, Chest, Legs, and Ranged display the resilience correctly.
2. The Hand slot does not display resilience at all.
3. All other slots display the resilience in the Haste Column.

#2 isn't that big of an issue, since Resilience doesn't come up in DPS calculations. However, #3 really threw me for a loop, making some of the Merciless Gladiator gear (before it was in the Spreadsheet) look much nicer than it actually is.

 

Hunterlin

I did found small bug in gear in spreadsheet.
Neklace of the Deep socket bonus is +3 hit, not +3 agi.

 

Nightshroud

I have created another Hunter spreadsheet with a smaller scope. It calculates average noncrit and crit damage for ranged attacks, then provides a 'shot average.' Shot average being the result of weighting crit, hit, and miss rate.

The effects of Haste and shot rotation in general are purposefully left out. My goal was to provide a lightweight alternative, accurate within its limits. I also find the act of creating a class spreadsheet personally educational.

Bliz Forum Thread
Google Spreadsheets - Official Copy
Filefront - Excel Format

Plan to look more closely through Lactose and Cheeky's spreadsheets now that I have a better idea what choices and relationships are involved. I'm sure there's more to learn.

Priest Guide
Hunter Guide

 

Khanate

From a set of data im compiling im wondering if anyone else noticed that the chance to hit doesnt get affected if the enemy is lower level than you?

I am compiling a set of data vs dr. boom, lvl 70 vs lvl 68 with 0 hit rating and +5 bow (troll with a gray bow) and as of 10 minutes ago i was at 118 misses for 3118 shots fired which would give a roughly 3.8% chance to miss counting only the weapon skill rating and not the level difference.

Im gonna assume Cheeky verified his theory for higher level mobs but with my results it seems consistent with his 5% base miss rate and 0.24% +hit per weapon skill except the difference noted earlier.

So im going to continue compiling this.

 

Cheeky

Try the Blasted Lands mob and see if you miss at all. If you are still seeing a 3.65% miss rate then there is definitely something screwy going on with hit%. (Even the miss rate you are seeing seems too high.)

I would assume a Troll would have a 1.4% miss rate (at 0.24% skill vs. defense), or a 2.4% miss rate (1% per level difference, 0.04% per skill vs. defense) using a bow against Dr. Boom.

My numbers have not been verified by me personally. I plan to do so tomorrow, doing the same sort of tests you are. Using both a bow and a gun I'm hoping so see either a 1.2% or 0.2% difference. I figure 4K shots a piece should be enough of a sample size.

Cheeky of Havoc

 

Khanate

I did about 1500 shots more and confirmed my previous results for a lvl 68 mob

I dont really have time to try it out on lower level mobs today though. I will do so tomorrow if no one else has

 

Groggan

Just an update, I've added the option to see the results of a change in hit rating on the various shots in the Variable Results section.

Link still here.

 

Serpica

Cheeky, I have a couple of comments on your spreadsheet.

First of all, thanks! I love this spreadsheet.

I noticed that you don't have sockets included for the TwinBlade of the Phoenix. It should have 1 red, 1 yellow, and 1 blue.

Concerning sockets - would it be possible to include a gem tally on the gear tab that shows how many of each color you currently have? This would be very useful in seeing where we are in meeting our metagem requirements, especially when you factor in multi-color gems.

 

Cheeky

Ok, with 3915 shots (forgot to turn on logging first 85) I got the following with 0 hit rating, and no surefooted. This was against Dr. Boom with a 350 weapon skill (gun):
3170 Hits - 80.97%
596 crits - 15.22%
149 misses - 3.81% miss

This means +10 weapon skill vs. Dr. Boom's assumed 340 Defense is good for +1.2% hit.

I am testing now with a bow (have to raise weapon skill from 335 to 355 first) and around 3K shots.

I think the numbers Khanate and I are getting are enough to handle any sample size concerns. Not sure if Dr. Boom has a higher than average defense either, since my crit rate on the paper doll is 15.36% and I would assume the weapon skill difference should have made it 15.76%.

Once I get bow data we can see if the +5 weapon skill difference had any effect. I will update this post when I get the second data set.

Update:
After leveling my bow skill, I managed to get the following results:
2717 hits - 79.96%
570 crits - 16.77%
111 misses - 3.27%

So getting +5 more weapon skill worked out to +0.54% gain. This is completely out of line with previous numbers seen, before the 2.0 patch. It seems to be very close to the .12% per point of weapon skill with the gun test above.

Another difference is in crit rate. The paperdoll rate for the bow I was using was 16.20%. I saw a good deal higher value at 16.77%. The difference in the gun and bow tests, factoring out paperdoll was 0.71% with 5 more weapon skill.

I wonder if even these exhaustive tests are still going to have issues with sample size. I don't know enough statistics to derive the confidence for these numbers based on rates seen and number of shots.

I am re-running 4K more shots with a gun to test Don Santos proc rates, but I'll record the data for crit/miss here as well.

Cheeky of Havoc

 

jmlsteele

More results (and therefore a larger data pool) cant hurt right?

Dwarf using a crossbow w/ 350 weapon skill.

2260 hits 81.795
397 crits 14.368 (14.17% paperdoll)
106 misses 3.836

2763 shots

As an aside, a number of these (97 to be precise) were blocked, and the blocked shots were made up of both hits and crits, which (correct me if I'm wrong) implies a 2 roll system doesnt it?

 

◊ Lactose

It proves that blocks occur on a second roll. It does not prove that crits do.

Look, Lactose, we'd rather you didn't eradicate the whole human race.
- Sam & Max

 

jmlsteele

Oh I wasn't implying that crits did, just that there was a second roll.... involved. Maybe I misunderstood the question earlier in the thread about whether hunter shots were based on a 1 or 2 roll system.

 

Khanate

Well here's all my results i did so far with a gray bow:

Vs lvl 70 (elite) mob

43/817 = 5.263% miss rate

Vs lvl 68 (dr. boom)

180 / 4885 = 3.6847% miss rate

Vs lvl 42 mob

0/192 = 0% miss rate


I think my first data set is skewed since over the 20 first shots I got like 10 miss which could of seriously skewed my data. (probably did in fact)

EDIT: troll = +5 bow so 355 skill