Sienna

Ofc weapon damage matters. The normalization only normalizes dps contribution from attack power. Slower weapons still have higher multi/aimed/silence/scatter damage.

 

alienangel

I could somehow be looking at the wrong version of the spread sheet since no one has mentioned this, but the version I'm getting off the link in the first post appears to be calculating average damage wrong. For instance in cell B176, multishot average, it seems to be average the crit damage with the crit damage, weighted by your crit rate, when it should probably be your hit damage with crit damage, weighted by crit rate. Same for the arcane shot average in earlier cells, and possibly for some of the "current+1 agi" rows too.

 

◊ Lactose

It's an error I've fixed locally. I'm not going to upload a new version just yet though, have some other issues I'd like to fix first.
That and Fileplanet doesn't seem to allow me to keep 1 stable URL for the damn thing.

SNAKEBALL™

 

Miya Mirage

When comparing current/new item and changing the RAP contribution of the current item, the calculated dps for the new item changes. Don't know if that's the exact same thing someone mentioned above, so just in case.

 

SaFly

As a feature I could like a quick way to know how much dps a certain attribute adds.

Like if i get
1 agil adds X dps
1 crit adds X dps
1 Ap adds X dps
1 Int adds X dps and Y seconds how long my mana pool lasts.

It should be easy to do just DPS(With extra attribute) - DPS(without extra). So then I can see at my current AP and Crit rating should i strive for more crit, more agil.. whatever.

Overall good stuff, keep it up.

 

Cranch

I've been playing with Cheeky's spreadsheet, which I like since it has a shot rotation page allowing you to select your own rotation.

There does appear to be a bug on that page though -- if you select arcane, then it will shoot auto immediately, rather than with a 0.5 second delay. I did a combatlog to check what actually happens in the game, and indeed, the autoshot occurs ~0.484 seconds later.

The bug is in the P column equation. Currently, it is:

[top]O4+IF(L4

"Steady",BB4, IF(L4="Multi", 0.5, IF(L4="Aimed", BO4, IF(L4="Auto", 0.5,0))))

It needs to be

[top]O4+IF(L4

"Steady",BB4, IF(OR(L4="Multi", L4="Arcane"), 0.5, IF(L4="Aimed", BO4, IF(L4="Auto", 0.5,0))))

To fix the spreadsheet, enter the modified formula in the P4 cell, select the P4 cell, move the mouse to the lower right corner of the selection rectangle until the cursor changes to a +, and then drag the cursor all the way down the column stopping at row 53.

 

Sienna

I added a small windserpent section to the spreadsheet to see the total damage done by hunter and the pet. Since the LB nerf, since LB is almost not scaling at all with AP, the value of hunter AP to pet dps is a lot les contributing than before while the crit chance of the hunter still plays a big role due to GFTT. Now after putting in the first numbers to see how much AP and how much crit rating gives the same overall damage boost, with no additional pet dps talents in BM tree, 1 crit rating is worth 1.48 AP for me.

Without contributing the pet part, it was 1 crit rating = 1.35 AP for me. I'll add some of the pet talents to the spreadsheet, stuff like Unleashed Fury and Ferocity. I'll stay away from the pet procs for this time being.

 

Cheeky

I've just tested this on version 7, and it seems to be working. I get the start of the arcane at 0, the end of the arcane at 0, the start of the Auto at 0, and the end of the auto at 0.5. I think you may be looking for the cast start time to be delayed 0.5 seconds with a 0 second cast time. What I have implemented it as is a 0.5 second cast time. The DPS will be calculated for both shots over 0.5 seconds of time, which is accurate with what you'd see in game.

Your changes would put a 0.5 second cast delay on Arcane shot. It wouldn't effect Auto shot at all.

Cheeky of Havoc

 

Cranch

Yes, I apologize for wasting your time. It turns out I was confused about exactly what the combatlog was reporting (it reports the "stop" column of the spreadsheet, not the "start" column.)

 

Cheeky

No need to apologize. It's important to me to get this working as well as I can. I use it myself for deciding what gear to focus on getting or spend DKP on. Please continue to put it through it's paces. I'm sure there are tons of flaws and bugs in it still. Latest version (8) fixes (among other things) the upper damage of the Wrathfire Hand Cannon (168 vs. 186 - typo) which had been looking like the best ranged weapon in the game with the bug.

I am wondering if anyone knows the math behind proc over time items. I specifically ask because the Mark of Conquest trinket is working out to a ridiculous amount of mana regeneraton. I'm seeing a proc rate of between 8-9% on all shots. It would be nice to figure out if this scales based on weapon speed or not. I'm just not familiar with the TheoryCraft behind this mechanic.

Cheeky of Havoc

 

• Lurchington

Well given that this is the Hunter Spreadsheets thread, I'm moving all further discussion to this thread:

http://www.lurchington.com/misc/hunter_list.xls (updated pretty often)
http://www.lurchington.com/misc/hunter_list.htm (not updated as often)

Goal:
Provide a summary of what items I should be looking for in each slot, where they're from, and a quick snapshot of what they're worth. This was originally a personal project, so it was Horde, scryer only, with no profession BOPs, but I've completed enough that I'm trying to fill it out.

Currently:
Has a selection of items in each of the inventory slots, with what I've deemed as relevant stats for each. The front page has a set of constants up for a Pawn-style ratings estimate. You're encouraged to use your own constants for ranking. Includes gems at the front, and enchants per slot.

To add:
Fill out missing alliance, aldor and profession BOP items
Include leather
Include key items from pre-tbc
Add better logic for using gems in their correct slotted color, and handling gem bonuses better
Create some sort of summary page that shows what you have per slot, versus best available
Add in some sort of Item level / item level estimate similar to the calculator posted in public discussion

Suggestions that might be beyond the scope of this spreadsheet:

Combining it with other spreadsheets, especially Lactose's.
- I'll attempt to keep my lists updated, but I'm not intending this as an all-in-one solution.

 

Lodi

First, assume you already know your relative value for RAP and crit rating. How much RAP do you effectively get from a 12dmg scope? I'll only look at one scenario: a steady shot and auto shot every 2.3 sec (yes, I know you can fit an arcane/multi instead of a single steady, or other variants).

"damage" below is before crit, of course.

dps added per real RAP = 1dps/14rap+((.2 dmg/2.3 sec)/rap)) = .158 dps/rap
dps added from 12dmg scope = (12dmg/2.3sec) = 5.2dps = (.158dps/rap)*[33rap]

That is, you can value the scope like 33rap.

Except at retard-gear values of weapon dps and rap, 28 crit is at least as good as 37rap (i.e. better than 33rap). So the crit scope wins, barely (not considering GFTT or other crit based effects). Crit looks even better as you increase your rap and ranged weapon dps. On the other hand, very fast (BM) hunters should probably value the two premier scopes about equally for now.

The accurascope is, of course, better than both if you somehow can use all that hit rating. I can't.

 

◊ Lactose

I seem to remember test showing +damage scopes not affecting Steady Shot?

SNAKEBALL™

 

Lodi

Yes, that's the consensus (haven't checked it myself). Sorry if I wasn't clear. The above calculation did indeed only consider a khorium scope increase in damage for autoshot; it's just that the dps is turned into faux rap since I'm used to comparing crit and rap for value.

 

Lodi

Gloves are messed up, showing (red+blue) sockets for many items that have none. Also, beast lord are red+blue, not 2xred

Sorting would be easier if the headers were bold and there were no gaps (I know you can make some button-based sorting; I'm just talking about highlighting rows).

 

Avellyr

I have a horrifying mess of a spreadsheet that I made that calculates the dps contribution from each shot for each piece of gear, and the results from it pretty much match your spreadsheet exactly lurch. It's nice to see that i'm not crazy.

 

• Lurchington

thanks for the tip on incorrect stats, those are kind of annoying to check. Not as clear on what you mean for the sorting. You mean the headers like Agility, RAP and etc? If so, not sure on the gaps you mean.

 

• Lurchington

Well, added in some new SSC items from wowhead, and corrected the glove section. Available at the linked section.

 

◊ vank

Hi all. First, thanks Lurch for all the work. You have made my life much easier as a Hunter. I do have a question for all the Hunters out there. I realize that stamina has no affect on one's dps, and is therefore not accounted for in Pawn or the AEP figures from the other thread. But, I can't help but feel that stamina is somewhat important; how much, I don't know. My question is this. Are any of you changing the constants, whether it be Pawn or AEP, and assigning any weight to stamina, and if so, how much? For example, 2 items are within 3 Pawn rating points of one another, but the lower item has 30 stamina associated with it. I would assume everyone would go ahead and take the lower of the two items. If so, then a value has been placed on stamina.

Just curious if I am the only one out there thinking this way, or if others are reworking the numbers with a small value for stamina? Thanks in advance.

 

◊ Bryne

Stamina doesn't affect your sustained DPS, which is sort of the entire point of this thread and spreadsheets. Adding it as a priority wouldn't really make sense.

You can still use this theorycraft to help you. Figure out what an acceptable goal is for your health pool, and use the info in this thread to get you there while min/maxing the rest of your stats.

 

◊ vank

Thank you Bryne. Yes, I understand precisely what you are saying. An example if I may. If you had two items to choose from. Item (a) was 'worth' 200 and item (b) was worth 190, but item (b) had +30 stamina. Which item would you choose? If you say item (b), then you are placing a value on stamina, however small. But, I totally understand what you're saying. This is all new to me, so I am trying to get beyond the 'stamina is irrelevant' mind set, even though, as stated initially, it doesn't do jack for dps.

 

◊ Lactose

Honestly, I see it as very much identical to wearing resistance gear, when you need it, you put it on. I'd gladly use cloth with -stamina as long as I didn't die, if it gave the most DPS.

I always try to keep a little stock of items that, even thought they might not offer as much pure DPS as my current gear, serve their use otherwise. Examples might be +hit gear after you're hitcapped, just in case you need to swap out some of your regular gear for resistance / stamina, etc.

Lessons of Maraudon: Never sell / disenchant anything that might be of some use in a different situation, but don't use that gear as your normal gear either

SNAKEBALL™

 

Jezele

I hate resurrecting older threads, but from the discussion, it sounds like there may be a newer version of Lactose's spreadsheet than the link in the OP? If so, could someone relink it for me?

(As a note, I like Cheeky's spreadsheet quite a bit, but it's not easy to compare items without going through individually and comparing the overall DPS numbers - not a big deal when you already have most of your end-game gear, but I put my hunter on the shelf for a while and have a lot of gear decisions to make as I level her up to 70.)

 

◊ Lactose

I've only uploaded 1 version of my spreadsheet, the version that can be found in the original post.
Original plan was to get it done during easter, but I've been extremely busy lately, and I barely have time to log on for more 1-2 hours every week.

SNAKEBALL™

 

Jezele

Thanks for the reply, Lactose, just didn't want to be missing out!

Cheeky: I've been playing around with your spreadsheet, but I've run across a strange phenomenon and I'm not sure whether it's "true," or simply an artifact and/or error (whether mine or the spreadsheet's). I selected a full set of tier 2 gear, full MM talents (including IAotH), and a GM bow. I used your prioritization for shot rotation (multi>steady), and came up with a hunter-only DPS of 841.28. I then started to play around with alternate bows (recalculating the shot rotation each time), but discovered that the GM bow gave me a higher DPS than every other ranged weapon on your list (again, hunter DPS only - it was even further ahead when you considered pet DPS, probably due to GftT).

I figured that faster bows would have a slight edge due to the increased IAotH proc, but there's something not quite right when a 55.8 DPS/1.8 speed bow calculates a higher DPS output then the 73.8 DPS/2.8 gladiator crossbow. I ran these numbers without IAotH and obtained similar results, which makes me think that there's something fishy about the calculations somewhere. Or are faster bows really that much better?

(Edit: If I only use autoshot and/or multishot, the values look more reasonable. I think the reason the GM/HW bow gives such a high DPS output is that you're basically able to fi