KahtraScilla

Putting 2 points into GftT with a cat as a pet shows a reduction in Ferocious Inspiration uptime.

Seems counter-intuitive since critical chance is unaffected, but the pet is attacking more frequently.

 

Navras

Cheeky changed it from default level 73 mob to default level 70 mob just because SO many people asked all the time why their crit chance was lower than their paper-doll crit. Now, I have a feeling there will be just as many people wondering why their hit % is at 100 even though they're not capped. QQ. (Personally, I liked the default lev 73 more, but I understand Cheeky's reasons.)

 

Cheeky

I have the wrong units for pet special attack speed. It shouldn't be 1/X like I have in cell I44. It lowers everyone's uptime of FI to a maximum benefit of about 2.8-2.85%. I'll have this fixed in the next release. Good find!

Cheeky of Havoc

 

Rokh

Cheeky, just a reminder / check if the new timing "rules" you and Lactose have come up with will be included in the next release as well. Been eager to see how that affects everything, if at all. I have a feeling Haste Rating will be valued a bit higher as a result, since rotations can be tightened up a bit.

 

Mercy XXVI

Is there a mirror for the Spreadsheet? The Havoc-Guild site seems to be down. Well, for me, anyway.


EDIT: And now it seems to be up.... I'll see if I can get the download to start up.

EDIT 2: Nope, still can't get the spreadsheet. I'm trying to get the OO spreadsheet, btw. Can't download the excel one either, though.

 

ohrion

It could introduce quite a few new variables into the equation, but perhaps the average crit rate on those mobs could be compared to the average crit rate on other mobs.

 

• Intermission

I think this was mentioned before, but I didnt see Cheeky comment on it:

Regarding the default level (I know, sore topic!).

When you select a boss target, eg Azgalor (6200 armor), he remains a level 70 until you change the Custom Target's level. I checked to see if the armor of Azgalor/other bosses still works, and it does. It is just the level that sticks with the Custom Target even if the Custom Target isnt selected.


ps: Been using this spreadsheet for months/years, big thanks

 

Ragnar

When I add mp5 to gear, it works fine, like normal. When I add Judgement of Wisdom to buffs, it works fine, like normal. When I combine the two, weird things happen, in a sinergistic effect.

For example:
Given my gear set, base time to mana exhaustion is 118 sec.
If I add 40 mp5 to my base gear, TtME is 136 sec. 40 mp5 added about 18 seconds.
If instead I add JoW to base, TtME is 308. JoW added 190 sec.
If I add 40 mp5 and JoW to base, TtME is 463 sec.

Thus, adding JoW to 40mp5 gives me an additional 327 sec, 70% more than JoW without 40mp5. Likewise, adding 40 mp5 to JoW gives me an additional 155 sec, about 8.6 times as much as adding 40 mp5 gave me without JoW.

Starting with JoW buff and base gear's TtME of 308:
Adding 1 mp5 gives 2 sec to base TtME.
Adding 2 mp5 gives 5 sec to base.
Adding 10 mp5 gives 28 sec to base.

If I turn off JoW buff, mp5 addition goes back to being linear. With JoW up, adding mp5 to gear starts giving you exponentially increasing benefits. I don't know where the multiplicative bonus for having both is coming from, but it seems like a clear bug to me.

P.S. Thanks so much for putting together this spreadsheet. It's a fantastic resource.

 

Belzi.ET

MP5 and your TtME isn't linear at all.

I don't wanna do the math here, but just think about it. There is a fix amount of about MP5 where you can't go oom with a given shot-rotation.
If you have about 3 steady shots within 5 seconds, you need roundabout 300 MP5 to stay at your mana-pool (don't go oom).

Every single MP5 gives an exponential plus on your TtME, until you kind of 'capped' your MP5 and therefore have an infinite TtME.

 

Thorongil

I don´t have time to do complete maths on this one here at work, but just a quick thought: The TtME needs to scale exponentially. Think of the extreme: Your mp5 is the same as your mp5-usage, so your TtME is infinte. You won´t reach an infinite result in such a quick jump without an exponential function (as far as my mathematical understanding goes, you´ll never reach it with a linear function unless one of your variables has an infinite amount).

 

◊ Lactose

I've just gone through and compiled the bugs listed/PMed to me.
Please let me know if there's anything missing that should be added to the bug list, either by posting here or PMing me.

Look, Lactose, we'd rather you didn't eradicate the whole human race.
- Sam & Max

 

Mercy XXVI

Still can't access the spreadsheet download. A little help here?

 

Cheeky

I just downloaded it to my work computer perfectly fine. Took just 2.5s total time.

Cheeky of Havoc

 

Mercy XXVI

Well I don't know what the cause is... I certainly can't get it to download using Firefox or IE, and I'm not having any trouble accessing anything else. How frustrating.

 

Cheeky

Is anyone else having problems?

Cheeky of Havoc

 

Admeta

Just tried it... no problem here.

 

Arcazua

Lactose, perhaps this should be discussed in another thread since this is only marginally about spreadsheets, but regarding your argument that the -66% hit debuff leads to evidence of a two-roll system, could it be that that particular effect jumps in after the roll rather than modifying your die roll by -66?

In other words, what I'm arguing is not that we necessarily have a two-roll system, but perhaps rather that that debuff forces a second roll. I will grant you that a second roll must be happening in your scenario for there to be standard hits. But I'd like to see the results of someone with low chance to hit shooting a level 70 target for a long time -- long enough to be statistically significant -- and commenting on how closely their crit matches their expected crit. I will grant you, with only a maximum of 5% basic miss, it's going to be hard to get anything highly conclusive...but then, if it's that hard to be conclusive, then does it actually matter that much?

 

◊ Lactose

The Banshee Curse has the same spell effect (Apply Aura: Mod Hit Chance) as e.g. Surefooted, and basically every other ability I know of affecting Hit Chance, talent or no. I'm also very certain this is the same spell effect previously in use for all pre-TBC items increasing Hit Chance (before the convertion to the Rating system).

Look, Lactose, we'd rather you didn't eradicate the whole human race.
- Sam & Max

 

Ragnar

Right, thanks. I knew I was missing something obvious. The more MP5 you have, the longer you can keep your rotation going, the longer the period of time that you get benefits from MP5 without running dry, the more of a benefit MP5 is for you, etc. So while mana regen over time stays linear, TtME is exponentially increasing with mana regen.

Thanks for letting me realize the obvious. Clearly the lesson here is that I shouldn't theorycraft late at night on too little sleep. And yet, is it just me, or is that when everyone does most of their theorycrafting?

 

Groznar

Where can I find how to adjust my sheet for improved judgment of the crusader (ret talent, 3% crit to raid) and is there a way to configure TtME and total dps for the 3:2 steady auto rotation introduced by the !autoshot macro?

 

Brinkodeath

For your question about the import/export feature I personally only use it when there is a new spreadsheet to save some time.

Thanks for the update. It took me a while to figure out why my DPS jumped up so high, once I set the default level back to 73 all was good. Thanks again and keep up the good work

 

Koroshiya

Is there a way to get the spreadsheet to show less then 100% so the appropriate dmg is reflected for being under cap against a 73 mob?

I tried setting the Custom level to 73 and selecting Custom target. I tried selecting a specific boss, "High Warlord Najentus." Both of these have no affect on the hit %? Is the idea here to just give a representation of what the character sheet will say? Because honestly I could care less about what the game will tell me. I'd log in if I wanted to see that. ;-P

Again Cheeky I think your work as great as you have seen in my previous posts! I just want to know what I can expect or how to get what I am looking for.

Edit: I am not sure why.. but I downloaded the Excel sheet again named it something else.. exported from the one giving me problems and imported to the new one.. and now the level on the settings page seems to affect the hit again. If I can figure out how to recreate the problem I will let you know!

 

◊ Estala

Arctic Winds - Spells - World of Warcraft

While not exactly the same aura, it is still worded similarly, but split into melee and ranged categories.

This hit chance modifier is in fact calculated after the hit calculation. I'm inclined to think banshee curse calcs after the first roll.

 

◊ Lactose

How do you know this?

Do you then also believe for example Surefooted (which is using the exact same spell effect, not just a similarily worded one, which works on someone else than its target) is on a second roll?

Edit: This is also ignoring all the testing that was made for rogues and specials being on a 2-roll system. They used (if memory serves) Ink Spray and Dust Cloud, both using the exact same spell effect as Banshee Curse, with lots of data supporting the 2-roll theory.