Hunter Spreadsheets -- In development - Page 75

alienangel · 04/18/08, 7:12 PM

Originally Posted by Cheeky

I'll look into the buffs. In general I find straight % increases of little use, since this is primarily a comparison tool.

My two cents on the matter is that group based % damage buffs are useful to have in if you're using the spreadsheet to evaluate different group compositions instead of just trying to compare gear. Questions like "do I do better in a shaman + ret pally + warrior + rogue group using 1:1 but with 3% damage and UR, or do I do better in a shadowpriest + warlocks group, getting no buffs but enough mana to do 3:2?". Or "would it be better to be in a 3 BM hunter + shaman group, or a 2 BM hunter, feral druid + shaman group?" Yes, it's trivial to calculate the former without the 3% damage and then manually tack it on, but having it available as a buff is convenient too

dragonskin · 04/20/08, 11:57 AM

this sheet tells me that the kael neck Telonicus's Pendant of Mayhem is still better then the Shattered Sun Pendant of Might (SO exalted).
anyone expected that?

i guess i ll wait for the brutallus necklce then.

Sienna · 04/20/08, 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by dragonskin

this sheet tells me that the kael neck Telonicus's Pendant of Mayhem is still better then the Shattered Sun Pendant of Might (SO exalted).
anyone expected that?

i guess i ll wait for the brutallus necklce then.

That's because the spreadsheet doesn't take into the proc effect of shattered sun pendant of might. If you want to see how good it is, just use a custom neck and enter 104 AP for the neck other than the agility part. That's the average AP you get from that neck.

KraxisSingular · 04/20/08, 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by Sienna

That's because the spreadsheet doesn't take into the proc effect of shattered sun pendant of might. If you want to see how good it is, just use a custom neck and enter 104 AP for the neck other than the agility part. That's the average AP you get from that neck.

Depending on faction of course.

Gamcak · 04/20/08, 12:54 PM

Hi there first time poster long time reader, but anyways I was wondering if anyone is having anytime of problem modeling the Sunfury Bow compared to better ranged. Not sure what is happening or heck it could be right but No matter what shot rotation, bow, anything I put in, the spread sheet is putting the Sunfury ahead in DPS. Ahead of the steam pistol,Striker, you name it thinks the Sunfury is God. Ive looked and looked at my talents,armor, buffs and all seem to be dead on....all but my ranged. Any info on what im messing up or just being an idiot on would be great.
One more thing and not sure I caught it in this thread but I'm not seeing "___ of Molten Fury" line of 1 handers listed. Thanks again

Sienna · 04/20/08, 1:25 PM

Originally Posted by KraxisSingular

Depending on faction of course.

Yeah ofc.

Cheeky · 04/20/08, 6:01 PM

Originally Posted by Sienna

That's because the spreadsheet doesn't take into the proc effect of shattered sun pendant of might. If you want to see how good it is, just use a custom neck and enter 104 AP for the neck other than the agility part. That's the average AP you get from that neck.

I'm pretty sure version 47 models the proc (although the Scryer version is incomplete.)

Twinkielock · 04/20/08, 11:36 PM

I have boars speed on my boots and I am getting an error saying that it is an invalid enchant. This showed up in 47 (Was fine in 46)

dragonskin · 04/21/08, 5:21 AM

Originally Posted by Cheeky

I'm pretty sure version 47 models the proc (although the Scryer version is incomplete.)

aaah my bad, i just notice that i never selected "Aldor" in the Settings and Results tab. so the DPS was without the proc gain.
anyway, for me its still only 2,3 DPS more. And Clutch of Demise gives a nice plus 20,4 DPS.

Wunlastri · 04/21/08, 10:35 AM

Not sure if it was intentional or not, but you are lacking the +10 haste gem. Quick Lionseye.
Edit, last night when it was linked in raid it was normal haste, but wowhead has it as spell haste. Did I just see it wrong last night?

Hideaki · 04/21/08, 5:16 PM

Is there anyway I can make Cheeky's spreadsheet disregard the value of Hit Rating?

Why do I care? Because sometimes I want to see if X item gives more AP/crit value over another item regardless of which one has +hit or not. Cheeky's spreadsheet is based on level 73 encounters obviously. I'd like to see what items will give me pure dps without the requirement of having 100% hit chance.

Gearknight · 04/21/08, 5:25 PM

Originally Posted by Hideaki

Is there anyway I can make Cheeky's spreadsheet disregard the value of Hit Rating?

Why do I care? Because sometimes I want to see if X item gives more AP/crit value over another item regardless of which one has +hit or not. Cheeky's spreadsheet is based on level 73 encounters obviously. I'd like to see what items will give me pure dps without the requirement of having 100% hit chance.

Go to the blue "Hand Adjust" row on the Gear tab and put in 200 hit rating. Now the hit on any gear you enter will be irrelevant.

Hideaki · 04/21/08, 6:05 PM

Originally Posted by Gearknight

Go to the blue "Hand Adjust" row on the Gear tab and put in 200 hit rating. Now the hit on any gear you enter will be irrelevant.

Awesome! Easy enough thank you.

Cheeky · 04/22/08, 5:19 PM

Originally Posted by Twinkielock

I have boars speed on my boots and I am getting an error saying that it is an invalid enchant. This showed up in 47 (Was fine in 46)

The enchant is there, there are just some bugs with scraping them. All ring enchants are broken too. I'm fixing them as I discover them.

Chasim · 04/22/08, 9:54 PM

I was using a prior version of the spreadsheet with no problems. When I started using 47 and I try to load my gear from the Armory, I get an error:

Run-time error '91':
Object variable or With block variable not set.

Anyone know what I failed to do or fill in?

Thanks.

Ufthak · 04/24/08, 9:41 AM

As far as I can tell, the [Grimgrin Faceguard]is missing its Stam stat.

Tyvena · 04/24/08, 7:43 PM

First of all, please excuse my bad english :<

1. There is an item missing, [Assassin's Alchemist Stone].

2. There is a problem with the calculation of [Ashtongue Talisman of Swiftness]'s ap.

The item often proccs while its buff is still up, that shoud drastically decrease the real value of ap granted by it. I didnt really make a calculation for that, but this example will show the effect:

Steady shot frequency: 2 sec. To make it easy, we say the trinket shoud ideally procc every 14 sec.

0 sec: trinket procc
2 sec: A possible procc would only provide 25% of its normal ap, because 6 of 8 sec were allready coverd by the last procc.
4 sec: Again, only 50% of the ideal ap.
6 sec: 75%
8 sec: 75% (The next ideal procc would be at 14sec, again only 6 sec duration.)
10 sec: 50%
12 sec: 25%
14 sec: 100% (next ideal procc)

And so on... all in all only 2/3 of the ideal apbonus would be applied, round about 100 ap.

Am I right? Did I miss something? Dunno, but I got a bad feeling about this trinket

PS: What's about the calculation of cooldowns? Are they calculated separately or like a "all in one" use? This would drastically increase the effect of onuse-trinkets...

peterk0 · 04/24/08, 8:22 PM

Originally Posted by Tyvena

first of all, please excuse my bad english :<

1. there is an item missing, [Assassin's Alchemist Stone]

2. there is a problem with the calculation of [Ashtongue Talisman of Swiftness]'s ap.

the item often proccs while its buff is still up, that shoud drastically decrease the real value of ap granted by it. i didnt really make a calculation for that, but this example will show the effect:

steady shot frequency: 2 sec. to make it easy, we say the trinket shoud ideally procc every 14 sec.

0 sec: trinket procc
2 sec: a possible procc would only provide 25% of its normal ap, because 6 of 8 sec were allready coverd by the last procc.
4 sec: again, only 50% of the ideal ap
6 sec: 75%
8 sec: 75% (the next ideal procc would be at 14sec, again only 6 sec duration)
10 sec: 50%
12 sec: 25%
14 sec: 100% (next ideal procc)

and so on... all in all only 2/3 of the ideal apbonus would be applied, round about 100 ap.

am i right? did i miss something? dunno, but i got a bad feeling about this trinket

ps: what's about the calculation of cooldowns? are they calculated separately or like a "all in one" use? this would drastically increase the effect of onuse-trinkets...

About [Ashtongue Talisman of Swiftness], I did some manual calculation based on Teron Gorefiend and Brutallus combat logs parsing and came up with aprox. 40-43% uptime during boss fights using /cast /cast macro and 2.9 xbow and/or badge xbow. That's around 110-120 passive AP equivalent. So itemwise like Bloodlust Brooch maybe little better with 3.0 bow, but never close to Madness, DST, Berserker's Call.

alienangel · 04/24/08, 8:25 PM

Originally Posted by Tyvena

first of all, please excuse my bad english :<

1. there is an item missing, [Assassin's Alchemist Stone]

2. there is a problem with the calculation of [Ashtongue Talisman of Swiftness]'s ap.

the item often proccs while its buff is still up, that shoud drastically decrease the real value of ap granted by it. i didnt really make a calculation for that, but this example will show the effect:

steady shot frequency: 2 sec. to make it easy, we say the trinket shoud ideally procc every 14 sec.

0 sec: trinket procc
2 sec: a possible procc would only provide 25% of its normal ap, because 6 of 8 sec were allready coverd by the last procc.
4 sec: again, only 50% of the ideal ap
6 sec: 75%
8 sec: 75% (the next ideal procc would be at 14sec, again only 6 sec duration)
10 sec: 50%
12 sec: 25%
14 sec: 100% (next ideal procc)

and so on... all in all only 2/3 of the ideal apbonus would be applied, round about 100 ap.

am i right? did i miss something? dunno, but i got a bad feeling about this trinket

ps: what's about the calculation of cooldowns? are they calculated separately or like a "all in one" use? this would drastically increase the effect of onuse-trinkets...

While I'm not privy to the inner workings of the spreadsheet, looking at the Calculations tab, I believe how the Ashtongue (and other effects that proc non-haste buffs) is:

1. Use your attack speed and the item's chance to proc on attack, buff duration and internal cooldown to calculate uptime: what percentage of time the buff is up. This by necessity needs to consider "wasted" buff duration due to reprocs, since I don't think a calculation naive enough to ignore it would have stayed in the spreadsheet this long.

2. Multiply that percentage by the magnitude of the buff, to calculate the average static value of the buff.

If 1 and 2 are correct, I'm fairly sure the "lost" buff time you refer to is already being accounted for - the only question is how well 1 is being calculated.

As for effects of cooldowns, this has been asked and answered many times, you should be able to find it in the thread.

edit: your English is fine btw ^_^. Although moderators occasionally ding you for not capitalizing sentences.

Docster · 04/25/08, 2:32 PM

Originally Posted by Chasim

I was using a prior version of the spreadsheet with no problems. When I started using 47 and I try to load my gear from the Armory, I get an error:

Run-time error '91':
Object variable or With block variable not set.

I am experiencing the same problem. Trying with different characters and also downloaded the spreadsheet again - no luck. I am using Excel 2007 on a Vista computer.

Cheeky · 04/25/08, 5:27 PM

Originally Posted by Docster

I am experiencing the same problem. Trying with different characters and also downloaded the spreadsheet again - no luck. I am using Excel 2007 on a Vista computer.

Hmm, I can't test on Vista. I wonder is Excel runs slightly differently there.

Khassandra · 04/25/08, 5:37 PM

I use Vista and haven't had any problems using the spreadsheet.

EPO · 04/25/08, 11:49 PM

V47 is not working for me either, running Vista64 and Excel 2007. I can retrieve the default Cheekies armory profile, but not mine. It gives me error -2147012894(80072ee2) Operation timed out, it retrieves my helmet and then gives that error. Debugging it refers to objXMLHTTP.Send "".

Cattiebrie · 04/26/08, 5:01 AM

V.47

Under "Target Debuffs" Expose Weakness is messed up. There is no place to input agi amount used, and if I set it to "Yes", then the AP Gained reads "mproved 3/3".

PrayForDeath · 04/26/08, 7:51 AM

Is it possible to add an option in the shot rotations tab that dynamically models 2:1/3:2/1:1 based on your attack speed? This would be extremely useful for survival hunters, and the current 3:2 option doesn't scale with haste.

I know this might be extremely complicated to model, but I'm just curious if it's possible.