Hunter Spreadsheets -- In development - Page 79

• Praxx · 05/07/08, 4:53 PM

I was looking over the item lists in the spreadsheet and found [Fenclaw Mantle] (of power) in the list for shoulder items. Perhaps remove some of these lower level items and replace them with the Netherstorm set.

[Netherstorm Helm]
[Netherstorm Shoulderguards]
[Netherstorm Chestpiece]
[Netherstorm Bracer]
[Netherstorm Gauntlets]
[Netherstorm Belt]
[Netherstorm Legguards]
[Netherstorm Greaves]

Adding these into the sheet with the 4 decent random enchants (of Agility, of Power, of The Bandit and of The Monkey) might help some new 70's fill in a weak slot from the auction house. There is also the lvl 68 Sundered and lvl 69 Talhide sets if you are looking for a decent list of the green mail.

Jaffi · 05/08/08, 5:31 AM

hi

there is a strange thing i noticed: As soon as I put a red gem (10 agi) into the second socket of starstalker legguards instead of a shifting shadowsong amethyst, the total dps decreases, although the socket bonus was not achieved in both cases. I mean 10 agi <> 5 agi + 7 stam? Seems to be a bug? Or does HP influence DPS?

Sniper · 05/08/08, 5:40 AM

Probably meta gem requirements, as I would guess you had a blue gem in your bow-stitched leggings and with switching to starstalker your missing a blue gem to fulfill the requirements. It's a long stretch but I just have the feeling!

Seoman · 05/08/08, 12:59 PM

In other Excel drop-down selections I've seen, there is an AutoSearch feature (my name for it - not sure what its really called) which allows the user to start typing the first few letters of an item in the list, and the first item starting with those letters is selected.

In an alphabetical list, typing "D" would take you to the first D. Typing "Demon" would take you to items starting with "Demon", if any. If not, it would go to items starting with Demo, or Dem or De or D, stoping when it hit something on the list. I'm not sure if I'm explaining very well.

Cheeky - would it be possible to implement this on the drop-downs in your spreadsheet?

Ravenfire · 05/08/08, 1:53 PM

Originally Posted by Cheeky

Not I. This is enough extra work for me to take on. I wish whomever tries to implement shot rotations and various haste procs in Rawr good luck!

Cheeky,

I think you could simplfy the issue. Instead of trying to show what our expected dps should be WITH varying haste procs/buffs (a monumental task), simply add a section that would allow Hunters to see which rotation they SHOULD be using based on various amounts of haste (their Auto Shot speed).

Jaffi hinted at this when he said:

The 3:2 makro automatically turns into 1:1 if you have enough haste up, but there is a thin line where it seems to depend on your latency if a second steadyshot will be castet (at around 1.75 auto castspeed), that will clip your next auto shot. This is what I noticed.
That's the reason why I thought about using a 1:1 castsequence, because with my current equip exactly this happens, if Iaoth proccs. Sometimes it casts a second steady which will more or less extremely clip the next auto shot, sometimes it doesn't.

We know what shot rotations we use (3:2, 1.5:1, 1:1). Based on those i've done some rough calculations involving combinations of drums, rapid fire, Heroism/bloodlust, Imp Hawk, and haste pots for both BM and non BM hunters. My initial findings show that when the Auto Shot timer drops below the 2 second or 1.75 second mark, then the Hunter is better off dropping down a rotation rank, 3:2 --> 1.5:1 --> 1:1. The reason 1.5:1 is in there is because instant shots do not clip auto shots but still allow you to get 2 steadys +1 instant off per 2 Auto shots with minimal cliping. There is also a minimum Auto shot time at which using anything but instants will cause auto shot clipping (i haven't figured this out as the AS time under which i would expect to start seeing clipping doesn't actually do it, IE 1.5seconds. Typically I start to see AS clippage at around the 1.2 second mark and it isn't big enough to make me want to NOT use steady shot). If you'd like I'll send you my spread sheet with my rough calculations in it so you can verify my results and potentially include something about haste effected shot rotations into the spread sheet.

Just PM me with how to get the spread sheet data to you if you want it.

Lukian · 05/08/08, 3:46 PM

Originally Posted by Cheeky

Does the gear planning feature mentioned on the previous page meet your needs?

I like the look of the gear planning feature and can't wait for it to be implemented in a public version of the spreedsheet.
My only issue with the spreedsheet is I have to run it under Windows, the macros don't even seen to work under wine.

I can't see how the [Shard of Contempt] could ever be a valuable Hunter item. If your model is correct the uptime is just 36%, for an average of ~83 RAP. That's worse than the [Hourglass of the Unraveller], [Bloodlust Brooch], [Bladefist's Breadth], etc. for DPS. Let the melee have it.

Thank you, I had seen suggested figures of 90-102, 83 RAP brings this item back into perspective (as such, implement it in the spreedsheet and never be pestered by this question again?)

Cheeky · 05/08/08, 6:26 PM

Originally Posted by Seoman

In other Excel drop-down selections I've seen, there is an AutoSearch feature (my name for it - not sure what its really called) which allows the user to start typing the first few letters of an item in the list, and the first item starting with those letters is selected.

In an alphabetical list, typing "D" would take you to the first D. Typing "Demon" would take you to items starting with "Demon", if any. If not, it would go to items starting with Demo, or Dem or De or D, stoping when it hit something on the list. I'm not sure if I'm explaining very well.

Cheeky - would it be possible to implement this on the drop-downs in your spreadsheet?

Sure, I'd love to. Just tell me how to enable that.

• Praxx · 05/08/08, 6:48 PM

Originally Posted by Cheeky

Sure, I'd love to. Just tell me how to enable that.

Not possible with the standard data > validation lists unless the list of possible selections is directly above entry field on the same tab. You can do it with a combo box from the Controls Toolbar but those are not imbeded in the cell.

Bikiniwax · 05/09/08, 11:14 AM

Cheeky, are you planning to model Drums to the spreadsheet? I don't seem to see it anywhere.

Pixen · 05/09/08, 11:26 AM

If possible, having VT modeled for a shadow priest in the group would be awesome for tracking mana longevity. I realize it's not the core competency of the sheet, but it'd be nice.

I think a druid sheet I saw did this by running the numbers off of estimated SP dps.

Indora · 05/09/08, 11:36 AM

Pixen & Bikiniwax, just use the little blue bar under the gear selection to add 80 haste (5% haste) or 250 mp5 (1k dps shadow).

Pixen · 05/09/08, 11:47 AM

Originally Posted by Indora

Pixen & Bikiniwax, just use the little blue bar under the gear selection to add 80 haste (5% haste) or 250 mp5 (1k dps shadow).

Touche.

Not that I ever get that kind of synergy in my raids, but it's nice to dream.

Xenoborg · 05/09/08, 12:04 PM

Awesome sheet! I was wondering if you could add a box for "number of other hunters with FI in group", its not a hard thing to calculate myself, but maybe it should be there just for completeness.

Originally Posted by Pixen

Touche.

Not that I ever get that kind of synergy in my raids, but it's nice to dream.

Not that hunters ever need a SP, JOW is utterly sick for us.

edit: Also Unleashed Rage please

Pixen · 05/09/08, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by Xenoborg

Not that hunters ever need a SP, JOW is utterly sick for us.

At the risk of going way off topic, indeed it is. Now I just need to find somebody to put it up and keep it there, but that's a whole separate issue. Most people don't understand how huge JoW is for hunters, it's like a 300% increase in longevity.

For a more topical comment, tremendous work on the spreadsheet Cheeky. You are a hero to the hunter community.

Cheeky · 05/09/08, 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by Xenoborg

Awesome sheet! I was wondering if you could add a box for "number of other hunters with FI in group", its not a hard thing to calculate myself, but maybe it should be there just for completeness.

edit: Also Unleashed Rage please

I hope to add external FIs when I do the buff overhaul.

I'll have to research a model for Unleashed Rage, but it only effects pet DPS.

Originally Posted by Pixen

For a more topical comment, tremendous work on the spreadsheet Cheeky. You are a hero to the hunter community.

Thanks. I wear my cape and tights proudly.

Bikiniwax · 05/09/08, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by Indora

Pixen & Bikiniwax, just use the little blue bar under the gear selection to add 80 haste (5% haste) or 250 mp5 (1k dps shadow).

Is there a different way to model it from one person using Drums every 2 min to say 4-5 people in the same group each using Drums with a rotation?

Xenoborg · 05/09/08, 1:49 PM

Well if you have 4 in a group using drums of battle then you basically have 80 passive haste because it will always be up. Having a 5th drum of battle would have no effect, so if we have 5 LW in one group, the last will use war or resto drums. You could have it setup so it takes a weighed average of regular dps and with drum dps to calculate the effects of having 1-3 drums.

Weighted DPS = ((4-"# of drums")*"regular dps"+"# of drums"*"dps with 80 haste")/4

Could we also get a 2nd scroll slot for pets, its a bit crazy but sometimes I give mine agi and str.

For unleashed rage our shamans say it is up +95% of the time, so it could probably just be added as a 10% (or 9.5) multiplier to pet AP

turbo_012 · 05/10/08, 5:06 AM

Originally Posted by Ravenfire

Cheeky,

I think you could simplfy the issue. Instead of trying to show what our expected dps should be WITH varying haste procs/buffs (a monumental task), simply add a section that would allow Hunters to see which rotation they SHOULD be using based on various amounts of haste (their Auto Shot speed).

Jaffi hinted at this when he said:

We know what shot rotations we use (3:2, 1.5:1, 1:1). Based on those i've done some rough calculations involving combinations of drums, rapid fire, Heroism/bloodlust, Imp Hawk, and haste pots for both BM and non BM hunters. My initial findings show that when the Auto Shot timer drops below the 2 second or 1.75 second mark, then the Hunter is better off dropping down a rotation rank, 3:2 --> 1.5:1 --> 1:1. The reason 1.5:1 is in there is because instant shots do not clip auto shots but still allow you to get 2 steadys +1 instant off per 2 Auto shots with minimal cliping. There is also a minimum Auto shot time at which using anything but instants will cause auto shot clipping (i haven't figured this out as the AS time under which i would expect to start seeing clipping doesn't actually do it, IE 1.5seconds. Typically I start to see AS clippage at around the 1.2 second mark and it isn't big enough to make me want to NOT use steady shot). If you'd like I'll send you my spread sheet with my rough calculations in it so you can verify my results and potentially include something about haste effected shot rotations into the spread sheet.

Just PM me with how to get the spread sheet data to you if you want it.

This helps a bunch. I was looking for the answer to how low of an attack speed can you go to reach a limit. 1.2 is quit achievable so that's good. Now I gotta figure out which macros causes the least amount of lag, so I can do the most dps or dpm.

Cheeky · 05/12/08, 12:52 PM

Version 48 is now available. This version has a lot of changes, and may be thought of as a "beta" and not quite a polished product.

There is not an Open Office version yet. I am in the process of making the necessary changes to have the buttons all work in Open Office. That will be version 49, and hopefully I can complete this effort this week.

I anticipate a lot of problems with this version, so make sure you review the current bug list before submitting new ones.

Change Log:

Added new enchants (Surefooted, Restore Mana Prime, Boar's Speed, Ring enchants now actually work.)
Begun adding a gear planner feature, sorting items by DPS and availability. Haste and procs may be a little screwy. Melee weapons are broken down into one-handed and two-handed categories. Ranged weapons are not supported.
Cleaned up items supported to only be unique items in TBC content.
Redid +1 stat calculations. This should operate much smoother. It will also generate a "haste cap" where haste is no longer beenficial, and a lookup table of haste -> DPS. This is used to more accurately judge the future value of haste.
Provide value of hit based off of have 0 +hit gear (useful for item DPS comparisons.)
Fixed problems with counting the proc of [Madness of the Betrayer] properly.
Simplified a lot of the code in the spreadsheet (I started treating this like a real software project). This should result in less bugs and faster turn-around times on fixes.
Completed new model of the [Dragonspine Trophy]. You can also see it's uptimes now if don't have it equipped.
Changed [Madness of the Betrayer] model to be PPM with differing rates of proc on Auto Shots and Special Shots. This lowers the effective uptime.
Automate the process of build Main/Off hand weapon lists. This should eliminate future bugs in the lists not being accurate with the master list.
Changed formatting on the gear page so that "0" values are in white text.
Added new gear ([Assassin's Alchemist Stone], [Figurine - Khorium Boar], [Claw of Molten Fury], [Fist of Molten Fury])
Corrected some item stats ([Grimgrin Faceguard], [Feltooth Eviscerator], [Leggings of the Pursuit], [Scaled Drakeskin Chestguard])
Corrected some spelling mistakes in item names ([The Blade of Harbingers], [Shard-bound Bracers])
A better model for the [Shattered Sun Pendant of Might] (Scryer) is being used. 16.7% chance of proc after the cooldown, and using ranged critical hit chances to critically hit for double damage.

Ravenfire · 05/12/08, 1:07 PM

Cheeky,

Not sure how reasonable it is to model the Blackened Naaru Sliver off of data gathered by a rogue but here's a link if you want to investigate it.

Rogue Gear Spreadsheet The rogue's first post is about half way down and he posts a complete combat log a few posts later.

Novacaine · 05/12/08, 1:21 PM

I found a bug already on the spreadsheet. It seems like that putting Ashtongue Talisman of Swiftness into the trinket slot causes some error on dps calculations, since im getting an error message in the dps output field.

Bikiniwax · 05/12/08, 1:26 PM

Originally Posted by Novacaine

I found a bug already on the spreadsheet. It seems like that putting Ashtongue Talisman of Swiftness into the trinket slot causes some error on dps calculations, since im getting an error message in the dps output field.

I get the same "N/A" error when using Ashtongue Talisman in either trinket socket. Ashtongue talisman worked in ver. 47