Hunter Spreadsheets -- In development - Page 80

wvbean · 05/12/08, 2:52 PM

Getting the N/A errors as well with certain pieces and also getting and error (Run-time error "13"/Type Mismatch)after swapping some gear and then trying to do the 1:1.X rotation. When I debug it highlights:

If (ArcaneDamage > multiDamage) Then

Cheeky · 05/12/08, 3:26 PM

Originally Posted by Praxx

Sorry, that should have been embedded. You would have to use a custom VB control to embed the combo box to a cell so it is available for the vlookup functions used in the spread sheet. Not worth it in my opinion. The other option is to have the validation list directly above the selection box but this is rather clunky. Cheeky would end up with 50-200 hidden rows above each of the slots just to hold the list and would still need to maintain the gear list tabs for the lookups.

@Cheeky: The [Dragonspine Trophy] is not appearing in the Gear Planner tab and [Abacus of Violent Odds] is now the 2nd best trinket for us?

The Abacus is a very, very rough approximation. The Dragonspine really isn't that great of a trinket based on my math. I know very few people agree with me, but I can't find any model where it looks good for Hunters.

Originally Posted by wvbean

Getting the N/A errors as well with certain pieces and also getting and error (Run-time error "13"/Type Mismatch)after swapping some gear and then trying to do the 1:1.X rotation. When I debug it highlights:

I fucked up any trinket with an on-use proc, it seems. There are also bugs with permissions on the +1 stat table and some versions of Excel running the Sort button. I'll have them all cleared up tonight.

wvbean · 05/12/08, 3:33 PM

Don't know if this helps, but I think the problem with trying the 1:1.X rotation was that I'm getting a #N/A value in the mulitshot calculation.

• Praxx · 05/12/08, 5:04 PM

Post removed because of error in calculation.

Xenoborg · 05/12/08, 5:07 PM

Why are you using 1 haste = 1 AP for the Abacus? Averaging out haste procs or uses doesn't seem to be a very effective way of determining their usefulness in the first place. 2 minutes of dps with 21 extra haste will give a very different results than 1:45 at regular speed and 15s at 260 haste.

alienangel · 05/12/08, 5:49 PM

Originally Posted by Cheeky

The Dragonspine really isn't that great of a trinket based on my math. I know very few people agree with me, but I can't find any model where it looks good for Hunters.

Well, your spreadsheet already lets us compare DPS while under a DST proc to DPS outside one. The PPM modelling changes in the latest version shouldn't affect that at all, it should only affect the total uptime of the proc - depending on how much uptime falls the trinket falls in ranking against other trinkets. This has been well known since you added the trinket to the sheet, and why we are able to change the PPM for the trinket on the settings screen IIRC. I don't think that's related to the gear ranking feature or the abacus ranking at all, is it? How do you rank Abacus without a separate screen to specify its shot rotation and uptime anyway?

Ebonleaf · 05/12/08, 6:27 PM

Originally Posted by Cheeky

The Abacus is a very, very rough approximation. The Dragonspine really isn't that great of a trinket based on my math. I know very few people agree with me, but I can't find any model where it looks good for Hunters.

I fucked up any trinket with an on-use proc, it seems. There are also bugs with permissions on the +1 stat table and some versions of Excel running the Sort button. I'll have them all cleared up tonight.

In my personal experience, the DST is great. I find your spreadsheet highly accurate most times and very helpful, but I wouldn't disregard it so quickly. It always procs for me and has huge up times. The dps gain is very noticable. Please bear in mind, i don't have access to BT or MHY trinkets yet so that may change. For right now though, it's a front runner for me.

Cheeky · 05/12/08, 6:35 PM

Originally Posted by alienangel

Well, your spreadsheet already lets us compare DPS while under a DST proc to DPS outside one. The PPM modelling changes in the latest version shouldn't affect that at all, it should only affect the total uptime of the proc - depending on how much uptime falls the trinket falls in ranking against other trinkets. This has been well known since you added the trinket to the sheet, and why we are able to change the PPM for the trinket on the settings screen IIRC. I don't think that's related to the gear ranking feature or the abacus ranking at all, is it? How do you rank Abacus without a separate screen to specify its shot rotation and uptime anyway?

No, it's not really related. More of a pet peeve of mine.

Because I don't want to add more shot rotations for every haste proc, what I do is the following for the Abacus:
1 - Establish a haste cap. This is done by the CalcAttributes tab adding one more haste continuously until the DPS gain is only 0.1 or less from the previous value. The haste amount and total DPS gain are stored in an internal table.
2 - The minimum value of 260 ([Abacus of Violent Odds]) and the haste cap is then indexed into the table to determine DPS. This is then ratioed by the uptime of the proc (10/120).

The haste lookup is actually used by all haste items. I think using this kind of model I might be able to determine the value of the haste meta gem as well, but I'm not sure if the whole thing is even valid.

Oh, and the reason it looks so good is that I had the proc duration at 20 seconds, not 10.

Now it's a 30-32 DPS trinket, on the order of [Hourglass of the Unraveller] and the [Assassin's Alchemist Stone].

alienangel · 05/12/08, 6:56 PM

Hm. I'm not sure I understood that Cheeky, but hopefully you leave the DST and Quick Shots tabs in place at least, since I think it's valuable being able to specify different rotations for our primary sources of haste.

To get around the problem of needing to add a new tab for various different effects, would it not be possible to make a button that just creates a new sheet which lets you specify a shot rotation, just like the current quick shots tab, drawing base attack speed, ap and other stats from the rest of the spreadsheet, but having basically its own hand-adjust row in which we could enter say the haste from abacus or heroism, or the AP from the AP drums. This would let you know what your DPS is while under those conditions, and if you know the "uptime" of those conditions, you could specify somewhere else something like this:

special sheet 1: 5%
special sheet 2: 10%

With the results tab doing the usual weighted average of the various DPS values.

I know that wouldn't work accurately unless the user created a tab for every combination of various stackable procs, but it would be as accurate as the user wants to make it by his own effort, and be nicely extensible, and I think the only implementation headache for you would be making a macro to generate the template sheet efficiently (I imagine excel is often used for things like that that). The special sheets wouldn't need to link into your item DB at all, just your listing of current stats, and how much each attack hits for.

Ebonleaf · 05/12/08, 7:05 PM

Originally Posted by Cheeky

No, it's not really related. More of a pet peeve of mine.

Because I don't want to add more shot rotations for every haste proc, what I do is the following for the Abacus:
1 - Establish a haste cap. This is done by the CalcAttributes tab adding one more haste continuously until the DPS gain is only 0.1 or less from the previous value. The haste amount and total DPS gain are stored in an internal table.
2 - The minimum value of 260 ([Abacus of Violent Odds]) and the haste cap is then indexed into the table to determine DPS. This is then ratioed by the uptime of the proc (10/120).

The haste lookup is actually used by all haste items. I think using this kind of model I might be able to determine the value of the haste meta gem as well, but I'm not sure if the whole thing is even valid.

Oh, and the reason it looks so good is that I had the proc duration at 20 seconds, not 10.

Now it's a 30-32 DPS trinket, on the order of [Hourglass of the Unraveller] and the [Assassin's Alchemist Stone].

It looks like the abacus is also 10 seconds of haste. Abacus can be triggered every 2 minutes, while the DST can proc more often than that, for more haste. The abacus does have 24 more static attack power, but you can pick that up elsewhere.

I guess in the end, a big part of it may just be personal opinion.

Edit: i accidently put 'more haste' instead of 'more attack power'

Rokh · 05/12/08, 7:28 PM

Just quick impressions, DST seems to be calculating right for me. Shows about an 11 DPS upgrade over Berserkers Call.

Edit: It's not counting the Gronnstalker set bonus at the moment. The Calc Attributes button is broken it seems. Not sure if other set bonuses work.

• Praxx · 05/12/08, 7:32 PM

Originally Posted by Cheeky

Oh, and the reason it looks so good is that I had the proc duration at 20 seconds, not 10.

Now it's a 30-32 DPS trinket, on the order of [Hourglass of the Unraveller] and the [Assassin's Alchemist Stone].

There also seems to be a problem with the TrinketStats data range. The vlookup in on the calculations tab cannot resolve it but I cannot figure out why. It works fine if you use the Trinket!A:X value and the range is set properly (=Trinket!$A$3:$X$52).

edit: I have better luck with the vlookup function when I select the entire column for the range. If you use =Trinket!$A:$X as the definition of the TrinketStat data range it appears to work.

Ebonleaf · 05/12/08, 7:56 PM

On a side note, in the new spread sheet it shows Bloodlust Brooch and Abacus both above the DST, with the Abacus even above the Bloodlust. However, when i drop in bezerkers and the bloodlust i shoot above the bezerkers/abacus combo which, according to the new section, should be a better combo. Thoughts?

Cheeky · 05/12/08, 8:22 PM

Originally Posted by Praxx

There also seems to be a problem with the TrinketStats data range. The vlookup in on the calculations tab cannot resolve it but I cannot figure out why. It works fine if you use the Trinket!A:X value and the range is set properly (=Trinket!$A$3:$X$52).

edit: I have better luck with the vlookup function when I select the entire column for the range. If you use =Trinket!$A:$X as the definition of the TrinketStat data range it appears to work.

Which cell do you see problems with? I just fixed cells E59 and E60.

Originally Posted by Ebonleaf

On a side note, in the new spread sheet it shows Bloodlust Brooch and Abacus both above the DST, with the Abacus even above the Bloodlust. However, when i drop in bezerkers and the bloodlust i shoot above the bezerkers/abacus combo which, according to the new section, should be a better combo. Thoughts?

The haste proc of Abacus isn't taken into account in the spreadsheet automatically. I estimate it's effects on the Gear Planner tab. Also, it looked so high because I had the wrong duration.

I should have a new version in an hour that fixes most of the show-stopping problems.

Lutherien · 05/12/08, 8:51 PM

The Gronnstalker Shoulders and Gloves aren't showing up as part of the Gronnstalker Armor and not registering the 4 pc bonus.

Cheeky · 05/12/08, 9:01 PM

Ok, I think this version is actually workable.

- Corrected the proc duration of the Abacus of Violent Odds from 20 seconds to 10 seconds.
- Fixed the DPS gains from the Darkmoon Card:Wrath and Darkmoon Card:Crusade.
- Fixed cell permissions on DPS per attribute to allow for CalcAttributes to work again.
- Corrected the lookup of on-use +AP procs. This should fix some errors with these trinkets.
- Corrected the lookup of Multi-Shot damage bonus with PvP gloves. This was probably leading to N/A issues for Multi-Shot damage.
- Fixed set bonuses for weapons, shoulders, and gloves.

The next version should have full OO support. As always, please report and bugs here.

◊ Lactose · 05/12/08, 9:28 PM

All main posts should be updated now.

If you've reported a bug, and it's still present in the newest version of the spreadsheet (version 49) and not listed in bug list, please post here or PM me.

Rokh · 05/12/08, 10:23 PM

Ignore this; jiggering with the DST tab makes it a large upgrade again.

Xenoborg · 05/13/08, 4:35 AM

The idea of a overall haste cap isnt accurate, but different rotations do have thier own cap. When I get into the realm of 1000+ haste, a 2:1 (auto, auto, steady) rotation gives much higher dps then the classic 1:1. I don't see any way to track variable rotations without having multiple shot pages like there are for quick shots and DST.

At the moment, I just calculate one rotation times X amount of time, and calculate it the other for for X amount of time and add them together.

edit: Also its little, but could you add a 2:1 rotation button?

edit 2: The ranking on the gear tab is very nice, but also makes it impossible to find things other than the very best

longjohnson · 05/13/08, 5:05 AM

Finding items on the gear sheet is now a complete pain. Is there a way to turn the listings back into an alphabetical order?

Cheers

Longjohnson

• Amelas · 05/13/08, 6:36 AM

Originally Posted by longjohnson

Finding items on the gear sheet is now a complete pain. Is there a way to turn the listings back into an alphabetical order?

I think this has to do with the "Gear Planner". When you sort the items based on DPS, it sorts the drop down menus in the same respect. The way to get it back to alphabetical order is to click "Alphabetize" in the gear planner tab.

Cheeky · 05/13/08, 9:11 AM

Originally Posted by Amelas

I think this has to do with the "Gear Planner". When you sort the items based on DPS, it sorts the drop down menus in the same respect. The way to get it back to alphabetical order is to click "Alphabetize" in the gear planner tab.

This is correct, you can re-sort them based on alphabetical order. I guess I should make that the default.

Cheeky · 05/13/08, 9:33 AM

Originally Posted by Cheeky

The Abacus is a very, very rough approximation. The Dragonspine really isn't that great of a trinket based on my math. I know very few people agree with me, but I can't find any model where it looks good for Hunters.

Ok, self-quoting may be a violation of Kabel's sense of forum decorum, but I made a mistake here. I am not including the DPS from the DST in the current gear planner. It's actually the 3rd best trinket in the game for me based on that being corrected. The haste alone isn't phenomenal, but that haste + 40 AP is.