Shandara

It is misspelled in the 'Ranged' worksheet, cell A30. It says "Golden Bow of Quel'thalas" with a lower-case t instead of a capital T.

My thanks to Cheeky for his work for the hunter community and in particular for unlocking the spreadsheet. I've been playing with it quite a bit and once I figure out what makes it tick I might come up with some additions to it (especially WotLK pet stuff) if he doesn't mind.

 

Dormonag

Thanks for the spreadsheet, it's been a great help on the march from Kara to Sunwell.

 

orinaccio

Thanks to Cheeky and Lactose for your admirable and tireless dedication to the hunter community by updating and maintaining this spreadsheet.

Hopefully WOTLK will bring enough changes that allows the hunter class to be just a normal class like others again, and not necessitate the use of such complicated tools to perform on a competitive level.

Cheers to Cheeky & Lactose for an amazing thread, a stellar tool and your unflinching patience

 

Zediono

Thank you both to Cheeky and Lactose.

Your sustained contributions to the hunter community have been huge, and none of us can thank you enough for all the work you've done. /bow

 

Thelastdeadmouse

If such a thing is possible for an inexperienced Excel user, could someone detail how to add new items to the drop down menus in the gear tab of the spreadsheet? The custom gear tab is nice, but inconvenient to use if you have more than one piece of gear for a particular slot that you're interested in, not to mention how nice it would be to keep an updated version of Cheeky's until the expansion hits.

Thank you so very much Cheeky and Lactose for all you have done for us.

 

Endugu

Thanks cheeky and lactose for all the work you did for this amazing spreadsheet.

I have a question: where can I see on the spreadsheet if my shots are clipping?
I'm wondering this because I currently use the badgebow (2,8 speed) and my current gear gives 89 haste rating.
If I add [The Blade of Harbingers] I will get another 53 haste rating, but I'm afraid that I will start clipping.
However I can't find anywhere on the sheet if my shots will clip or not.

I use a 1:1 rotation.

 

TigCarn

Did you take Apolyon out of the spreadsheet? I haven't been able to find it in the list.

 

Shenzhe

@Cheeky and Lactose. A big thanks for all the work you did on the spreadsheets and this thread. It's been an amazing help getting me to better understand the hunter class, proper timings, and gearing. I greatly appreciate all the work you did over the months.

 

Griffen

Exactly.

Your spreadsheet has been close to a bible for me. Thanks for all the great work done.

Numquam catapultas allice, iram omnium concitabis

 

greenjello

Firstly, I wanted to thank cheeky and lactose for all their hard work.

Secondly I've just a quick question. I currently use the badge crossbow. My attack speed is exactly 2.00. During fights I spam the standard 3:2 macro, and have entered such on the 'Shot Rotation' tab.

My question is, that since the standard 3:2 macro seems to automatically adjust to haste procs by scaling down to a 1:1 rotation, should I enter a 1:1 shot rotation in the 'Quick Shots' tab to obtain the most realistic results, or persist in entering 3:2? It seems I read somewhere that I should do the former, but I was unable to locate the exact post in my brief search.

Any info. is appreciated. Thanks again!

 

Leighlu

Thank you so much for an incredible tool. I have no idea how I would have experienced TBC without it.

/mourn

 

Nightgazer

Your work and the spreadsheet have helped me so much. When I put in for some loot, I always made sure it was "Cheeky Approved(tm). Thanks for the hours and hours (and hours) of hard work you've spent on this! So thanks!!

 

• Sebudai

On the Shot Rotation tab it appears to me that the spreadsheet is not taking into account the global cooldown for Steady Shot. The delay listed between two Steady Shots is just the cast time of Steady Shot and not 1.5 seconds(the GCD). I'm under the impression that you cannot reduce the GCD of Steady Shot like you can its cast time. Am I wrong in some way here?

 

• Sebudai

I hate to post again, but I believe my question is semi-important for anyone that wants to use the spreadsheet.

From what I can tell, the spreadsheet seems to think the GCD doesn't apply to Steady Shot, or that you can reduce the GCD of steady shot with haste effects. This is very wrong, and greatly reduces the accuracy of the spreadsheet, specifically for items with haste. Is there something I'm missing here?

 

kriS411

you are wrong here, the steady GCD is modified by haste currently, in wotlk you cant run steady more then once per 1.5 sec.

 

Vegelus

Yes, you've missed this post:

So now you can check everything by yourself and modify when needed.




Thank you, Cheeky and Lactose, for your great work. Not only with spreadsheet and in TBC but also earlier, in 1.0 with our theorycraft. Thanks to others, that were helping with all this math needed here.

Let just hope that Wotlk will bring us less irritating theorycraft for our class and more fun with getting best from it.

 

• Sebudai

No, I didn't miss that post. Don't be an ass. I'm not asking for Cheeky to fix the problem, I'm looking for confirmation as to whether or not there is a problem. And yeah, I'm pretty sure that non-Bloodlust haste does not reduce the GCD of Steady Shot. In fact there are several threads on this forum that confirm this.

 

• Keltan

Seb, you are correct that haste does not affect the GCD for hunters. (I believe Moogle did some extensive testing to prove that Bloodlust/Heroism doesn't even affect the GCD for melees/hunters.) The GCD for us is always 1.5 seconds. If you are correct that the spreadsheet is not modelling this and is simply modeling Steady Shot shot frequency off the cast time of Steady Shot (which IS affected by haste), then yes, the spreadsheet is overvaluing haste.

 

• Sebudai

Yeah, that appears to be the case according to the "Shot Rotation" tab of the spreadsheet. You can check your start/stop time for each ability in your rotation. I initially noticed this because the spreadsheet was giving me an extremely nice value for haste rating. Anyway, I just wanted to make sure my assumptions were correct and possibly give other hunters a heads-up about this. If I am correct then I estimate that the spreadsheet is overvaluing haste by about 25% for me. This percentage may be higher or lower depending on the rotation used. I'm not sure if this error would affect the accuracy of other aspects of the spreadsheet.

 

Flowerhowl

Thanks for all the hard work Cheeky /bow

 

SenorPez

Thank you very much Cheeky, Lactose, and the rest of the Hunter community here. Tools like this spreadsheet helped me really understand the "nuts and bolts" of what separates the average Hunter from those that excel. (No, I didn't intend a pun.) Your hard work on the spreadsheet was certainly a factor in improving my game, and I thank you for it!

 

Faerdael

Thank you so very much for all your hard work Cheeky. Your contributions to hunter theorycraft have been eclipsed by no other, and we all are in your pixilated debt.

Regarding the spreadsheet, shot rotations and haste are a tad nebulous and people should understand the behavior.

Shot rotations should be taken slightly with a grain of salt; they are "artificially" modled and not 100% representative of in-game play. For example, if you equip a chicken bow and add 556 haste, you will end up with a 1.5second auto shot. You can then select a 3:2 rotation and it will populate auto, steady, steady, auto, steady, even though this would be an impossible result given any accepted hunter macro. Thus it is wise to understand your in-game behavior when working out shot rotations, although it is a good start.

Looking at quickshots tab, you will generally see that by about the sixth shot, your distance between steadies is pretty consistently 1.5 seconds apart, I am not altogether clear why the initial few shots differ in this regard, but as far as overvaluing haste, perhaps slightly, but less than you might suppose. You really start to see diminishing returns based on haste; there really is a "soft" cap to this on paper.

The slight overvaluation of haste regarding GCD is possibly counterweighted by the affect of latency as calculated on the spreadsheet, since using a /cast /cast rotation in a continual spam manner could possibly be incurring the detriments of latency at the beginning of the spam cycle and not in between each shot, as the spreadsheet indicates. (I will have look for the post(s) to link here sorry).

Also, when dealing with mulitple haste buffs, it is a roll of the dice as to how much of these buffs will actually overlap during play, and result in non-maximized use of haste buffs. The spreadsheet plays the odds here and comes up with some averages for chance for duplicity, but again, it can never be a literal translation of the game results. I personally use [The Blade of Harbingers] and a [Dragonspine Trophy] and I have never felt I was misled by the spreadsheet, and I am glad I made these choices, which I otherwise would not have made.

So in short, the spreadsheet has been a brilliant guide, but its an aid to the gameplay and not "how-to" guide. To really understand the working of any armor set, you just need to get the stuff hot.

 

• Sebudai

I appreciate the post, Faerdael, and I'm well aware of what you're saying. However, I think you're looking past what I'm claiming here, probably because you're used to dealing with posters that seem to possess the intelligence of a tree stump. I don't blame you. Anyway, the spreadsheet doesn't "slightly misjudge" the GCD of Steady Shot early in the rotation and rectify the problem later on. It simply does not account for the GCD of Steady Shot at any point in the rotation. I understand that certain game play aspects are impossible to model with perfect accuracy, but this is just an error. An error that is affecting the value of haste in a substantial way. I know, because I used math. The spreadsheet is overvaluing haste rating by about 26% for me.

Anyway, I've done my part in alerting others of this. I wasn't really expecting attention to detail to be an attribute of the hunter community in general.

 

Dralmoo

edited because i can't count, and I did some more testing.

Actually, no matter how much haste I set it's not like you ever start chaining 0.5 second steadies. Even with 2000 haste, I see the second steady coming 1.2s after the first, which is clearly in error, but then an average of 1.7s between the rest, when using the 1:1 button. The extra 0.2s is from the latency calculation. The actual cast time of each steady is 0.15 seconds at this haste value.

Sebudai, do you see something different?

 

Cheeky

There are separate GCD calculations being performed in the Shot Rotations, independent of the Steady Shot cool down (which is allowed to go below 1.5s) As was shown above, you can get the first Steady less than 1.5s after you start (since I assume your GCD is available at the start of the cycle) but you will not be able to increase their frequency beyond 1.5 + latency.

This does provide an effective cap on haste. You'll see some small variance in DPS (less than 0.5 DPS) with massive haste numbers just because of the way I implemented the Shot Rotations to actually start and end at times that may not coincide with the GCD. But that's noise of even less effect than rounding errors would be.

In short, haste is modeled as completely as my limited intellect allowed me to do it. Hopefully someone else can come up with a better scheme, but the problem seems much easier when it's not you having to account for everything.

I'd like to see your math that proves I'm off by 26%, but honestly it sounds like the basis for a new spreadsheet to me. Good luck with that!



I'd also like to let everyone know that I am touched by the comments left. It was a lot of fun (when I wasn't busting my head against my monitor over trying to figure out how to model interfering shots or the fucking [Talon of Al'ar] - worst trinket ever) working on this project. The list of names of everyone who contributed to the final product is extensive, and reads very similar to the list of everyone who's eve