Azurei

I'm confused about the Attribute -> DPS section of the 'Settings and Results' tab. I assume that I use the DPS column of that table instead of the 'Per Item Budget', correct?

Here's what my section shows below:
So I put the DPS section into Loot Rank for WoW (after adding Ranged DPS: 1, correct?) and it tells me that Merciless Gladiator's Crossbow of the Phoenix is #3 on my list and Don Santos' Famous Hunting Rifle is like #26 BUT... when I put them both into the spreadsheet, the Hunting Rifle gets me ~+10DPS more than the Crossbow. Is that purely from the speed difference or am I using the AEPs wrong or ?!??

Thanks for the help.

 

Samba

Im sorry if this has been posted already... Im using the spreadsheet hosted in these forums from Cheeky, but recently got the one that was picked up at The Hunting Lodge... Problem is with all variable being the same on both sheets Im getting conflicting results on the gear planner.

Ive been collecting gear based on the results of the gear planner on cheeky,s version here at EJ. But if the spreadsheet is correct over at THL then everything ive gathered up till now was a waste of time... can someone possibly give me an idea as to why this may have happened?

All armory info has been imported on both spreadsheets, pet info has been verified on both sheets, all buffs have been cleared, 1:1 steady rotation is used on both, latency has been set on both, quick shots settings set on both, set it to cast sequence on both as well. Im kind of at a loss at the moment.

 

SenorPez

The Attribute/DPS/Per Item Budget isn't terribly accurate for ranged weapons, for a number of factors. That table shows, generally, how much a point of each stat is "worth." For example, in your example above, a point of Agility would grant 0.396 DPS, while a point of AP would grant 0.201. However, in item budgets, attributes are weighted differently. In this case, Agility costs twice as much as AP. So if I have 24 points to spend, I could get +24 Agility or +48 AP. What this means in practice is that, while AP seems to lag behind on point-for-point DPS (it does), you tend to find more AP on items than Agility.

As for the weapons, is lootrank taking into account the Don Santos' proc? That's a fairly big chunk of additional DPS that isn't explicitly tied to its stats. The same goes for the other weapons, and their effects on your shot rotation. Depending on your spec and your haste, some weapons with "nominally" higher DPS end up being better when you start shoehorning them into a rotation.

 

brigwyn

I think what your finding is some differences as the spreadsheet continues to develop.. I can't speak for Wertez but I noticed your thread there so I"m sure it'll also be addressed there. In the mean time I'll try to bring this to Wertez's attention over at the Lodge also.

 

Azurei

Thanks for the response. In general, when I plug values into Pawn, Lootzor, and the like should I be using the DPS values or the Per Item Budget values?

What's the best way to find the best ranged weapon for my char? I need some place to start ranking weapons so that I can throw them into the spreadsheet to get more accurate values. Would I set Ranged DPS = 1 (in addition to the other values from Settings and Results) to get a decent list? Is there a list posted somewhere for BM hunters? I have the honor saved up for the Merciless xbow but the Don Santos rifle showed up in the AH and it got me thinking...

I doubt that lootrank takes the proc into account in any way but I'm not absolutely sure.

 

Samba

Ah... "Womba" on THL isnt me.... but Ill follow that thread as well Brig... ty for that!
Glad its not me making an error =D

 

brigwyn

Ah. sorry for the mixup. my apologies. (Notice the infraction.. grr)

As for the spreadsheet, I see that we've identified the error with the gear planner. Here's the link to the explanation.

And as for the supposed DPS error, once we went through and double checked that ALL fields were equal, we couldn't duplicate it. So as for the other issue, I'm not sure at this time.

 

Cheeky

With current Hunter mechanics Weapon Speed >> Weapon DPS. Ranged weapons have to match your rotation. For a BM Hunter it's real hard to top the [Crossbow of Relentless Strikes].

Cheeky of Havoc

 

Azurei

Thanks for the response Cheeky but I'm WAY off from getting enough badges to get that xbow. I'm looking for an upgrade in the more near future... like today.

Any guidance from my last post on which values from the spreadsheet to use (DPS vs. Per Item Budget)? ...and how to build a starter ranged weapon list on lootzor, etc. so I can start shopping while I build up my badge collection? Thanks.

 

Cheeky

Dude, there is like 18 months of research and theory on which ranged weapons work for which spec on these forums, TKA, and even the official pile-of-shit forums. Do a little homework.

Cheeky of Havoc

 

brigwyn

If your looking for just an upgrade.. I think you should just download ratings buster and atlas loot. Go through the list and you'll identify an "easy" upgrade..

But if your trying to complicate the "loot" selection of the spreadsheet.. good luck.. This is nearly impossible to get to "everyone's" satisfaction. I think the baseline that Cheeky provided with his and other's here and elsewhere's research is about as good as your gonna get.

But there's been a ton of discussion on ranged weapons and they always basically turn out the same

Wolfslayer, Phoenix Bow (not entirely sure about the bow, think others might be better)
Chicken Bow (Crossbow of Relentless Strikes)

Then you get into the T6 stuff..

At least I think that's the norm..

 

Azurei

Thanks for the advice. I went ahead and bought the Don Santos Rifle and spent some honor on gear upgrades.

Just to be clear... I wasn't disputing the research here. I'm here because (IMO) the experts are here. I was seeing one thing in Cheeky's sheet and something completely different when I was trying to rank ranged weapons using the Settings and Results numbers. I was just trying to understand why there was such a discrepancy. I think Cheeky's and SenorPez's comments helped me understand better the difference... you can't really compare ranged weapons with just stats, you have to model the shot rotation using the sheet to get the best/most accurate results.

 

Azurei

Wow... maybe I'm not phrasing my question well. I have searched these forums and other sites several times. What I'm trying to understand is what the DPS and Per Item Budget numbers mean in the Settings and Results tab of the sheet. I see people referring to "use these values in Pawn", etc. but they never specify which ones to use. I see lots of references to item budget but I can't find anywhere where someone explains what item budget is.

I'm assuming that the DPS numbers are the effect those stats have on DPS. +1 AGI = 0.411 DPS, etc. I can see that Per Item Budget is related in some way but not how. I would like to put values into Pawn and get a number that represents (at least loosely) the overall DPS gain from a piece that I can compare to my current piece. I'm not sure how to get that or if it's even possible. I've tried both sets of numbers in Pawn and neither seems real accurate. I can tab out of WoW and crank up the spreadsheet but it would be nice to not have to do that if I can avoid it.

I've just returned to WoW after a year so I'm trying to remember/catch up on my hunter skills/knowledge. Thanks.

 

sjogren

Use the DPS column, that's what tells you how good a concrete item is. The "per item budget" column rather tells you how to design an "optimal" item. Eg if you had X item budget points to spend on any one stat, you'd pick the stat with the highest "per item budget" value, because that gives the most bang for the buck.

 

Cheeky

Item budget is the equivalence Blizzard attaches to the iLevel value of a stat. (See WoWWikki for a description of iLevel.) Most things are worth 1 "budget" for what ever they are (Strength, Crit rating, Agility, etc.) some are worth different values (1 budget gets you 1.5 Stamina, or 2 AP, for example.) You can see this illustrated very clearly in gems.

Ranged weapons don't follow that very well because they have different speeds and DPS values (and you may have racial considerations that also play into it.) Again, there are multiple lists and discussions about why you want certain ranged weapons over others. If you're having difficulty finding this information you just aren't looking hard enough. I'm not trying to be mean, but your not the first guy to wander into the forums with his hand out hoping to get all the answers handed to him. It gets annoying having to answer the same questions over and over again. The "Help Me" thread was created specifically as a location to ask questions like this.

Cheeky of Havoc

 

sjogren

I think you're misunderstanding, Cheeky. I don't think Azurei wants coefficients for ranged weapons but for pieces of armor, and was confused about which column to use for that.

 

Azurei

That makes sense and is exactly what I needed. If I understand this correctly, Blizz probably comes up with a certain item budget for tier X (or whatever) gear and then puts points into different stats until that budget is used up. That way gear made for vastly different builds will be considered "balanced."

I understand your frustration but please consider this... some people want to get better at their class but they don't have months to read, process, and even understand even one of the long threads in this forum. I think that one thing that contributes to the difficulty for new people coming in here and the "dumb"/repeated questions is the huge volume of data/posts. I'm not saying that's an excuse for being lazy BUT... it's a shame to have all this great info buried in all these threads. We need a few pages that outline the basics in an easy to read and understand format with links to the gory details in the threads, as needed. The theorycrafting section is a great step in the right direction short of an elitistkjerks wiki (which I would welcome) but there are no hunter pages yet.

I came to this thread because my question was specific to the spreadsheet and what values to use (DPS vs Item Budget). I will keep the '[Hunter] Help Me' thread in mind for future questions. Thanks for all the help (and the awesome spreadsheet).

 

xEw

Hi there!
I'm a little confused with the Shot Rotation table. If i set Macro? to castsequence i get significantly other dps values and "buy advocacies" than with spam.
Thanks to the Shot Rotation & Quick Shot table i now use a 1:1 macro again and no 3:2 anymore(it says 1:1 is better). 3:2 macro(with /cast !Auto Shot /cast Steady Shot) is a spam macro - without a doubt. But what is a 1:1 macro? It has a castsequence in it but it is spammed all the time.
Thanks in advance for any help.

 

Faerdael

The Manual, Castsequence, and Spam options vary in value due to the attempt to model the effects of latency on your casting method. Castsequence, for example, requires client to server request, and a server to client response to tell your macro to send the next cast listed in the sequence. Spam, basically denotes what the /cast /cast macro does, ie. continually attempt to send casts to the server side queue without waiting for a response from server back to client. Thus, the castsequence option will be more detrimentally affected by the latency value defined right below.

Using "classic" terminology, the castsequence is often referred to as a 1:1 macro (accurate) and the /cast /cast as a 3:2 macro (only conditionally accurate). I use a /cast /cast macro (frankly, I am not covinced there is anytime when castsequence is a better decision) but generally end up with 1:1 rotations with my haste weapon equiped, so I generally set this as 1:1 with the Spam option, although I suppose if you want to be truly accurate, you would go to Dr. Boom, record your times, and manually model your rotation accordingly.

 

Esoth

If you are hasted enough that 1:1 is better the 3:2 macro will actually result in a 1:1 rotation. Continue using the 3:2 macro; it will adjust.

 

Dralmoo

[wrong thread]

 

Polar