Hunter Spreadsheets -- In development - Page 14

Cheeky · 05/11/07, 9:10 PM

Originally Posted by Groggan

Cheeky, do you have any plans to implement Monster Slaying/Humanoid Slaying? I realize it would be a pain with regard to having to either note the type of mob the dps is for (and likely would be most intuitive if a total was added for targets under the effects of slaying vs. not), but it seems as though the slaying talents should have a not-insignificant effect on DPS (particularly for a full SV hunter as they approach higher and higher crit rates).

Yeah, I can do that pretty easily. I'll have it in the next version, which should be early next week. I figure that gives people plenty of time to point out all the mistakes in the latest (15 - fixed a few bugs in 14) version up.

What I'll do is provide a drop down menu for target type. If it matches one of the types you have slaying points in I'll increase damage accordingly.

Utters · 05/13/07, 2:01 PM

I don't know if this has been posted but on the buffs section turning on TSA doesn't seem to add any AP on Cheeky's spreadsheet.

Fearspect · 05/13/07, 3:09 PM

I believe it is assumed to be calculated (TSA) if you already have the talent, the buff section will only add it in to calculate if you are not already talented in that way.

Now, regarding EW, I am having a little trouble with the current model:

1 - (Chance of no proc)^(attempts)

Now, this doesn't really produce a true uptime, at least I don't think so. What it shows is the chance that it will fire off within a period of 7 seconds, but does not really factor in refreshes and such.

I can't figure it out myself I don't think. Is this a combination of Discrete Math with a Rate problem?

The reason is that with points tight in SV, I am wondering if I can get away with 2/3 Expose weakness instead of 3/3 (It seems like greatly diminished returns per point, but I want the raid to benefit from the most possible uptime).

Cheeky · 05/13/07, 5:42 PM

Originally Posted by Fearspect

I believe it is assumed to be calculated (TSA) if you already have the talent, the buff section will only add it in to calculate if you are not already talented in that way.

Correct.

Originally Posted by Fearspect

Now, regarding EW, I am having a little trouble with the current model:

1 - (Chance of no proc)^(attempts)

Now, this doesn't really produce a true uptime, at least I don't think so. What it shows is the chance that it will fire off within a period of 7 seconds, but does not really factor in refreshes and such.

I can't figure it out myself I don't think. Is this a combination of Discrete Math with a Rate problem?

The reason is that with points tight in SV, I am wondering if I can get away with 2/3 Expose weakness instead of 3/3 (It seems like greatly diminished returns per point, but I want the raid to benefit from the most possible uptime).

Expose Weakness is present (for you) if any of your shots in the last 7 seconds triggered it. You're right in that for the raid the uptime is going to be slightly higher, since for them partial shots count, but for you they don't. I think the numbers will be close enough to not matter.

Equalizer · 05/14/07, 1:39 AM

This is the first time using a spreadsheet for me, so I had a question.

I was testing out a Survival build. Changed my gear appropriately via enchants and gems, redid the talents and added buffs.

When I went to the calculation area, it said my ranged attack power was 2633 and my crit was 44.69%.

Can that AP possibly be right?

Am I reading the ranged attack power portion incorrectly?

Keep in mind I'm not using a Flask of Relentless Assault and I'm using an untalented Blessing of Might.

Cheeky · 05/14/07, 10:09 AM

Originally Posted by Equalizer

This is the first time using a spreadsheet for me, so I had a question.

I was testing out a Survival build. Changed my gear appropriately via enchants and gems, redid the talents and added buffs.

When I went to the calculation area, it said my ranged attack power was 2633 and my crit was 44.69%.

Can that AP possibly be right?

Am I reading the ranged attack power portion incorrectly?

Keep in mind I'm not using a Flask of Relentless Assault and I'm using an untalented Blessing of Might.

You can verify the gear stats on any of the updated websites (Thottbot Test, WoWHead, etc.) if you think they are wrong. Since the spreadsheet is designed to the 2.1 mechanics in sustained fights I count Hunter's Mark as a full +440 RAP (I'm assuming a raid can keep it refreshed.)

Without knowing your exact gear and what buffs you added I have no idea what your stats should be, but if you are in top-of-the-line stuff and have every buff imaginable I'd say it's entirely possible to reach those numbers.

beathoven · 05/14/07, 10:32 AM

I've talked and seen with a hunter from Forte (Kazzak/EU) on the PTR yesterday, and with the fully AGI gem'ed test gear and a Survival spec he had around 2200 RAP and 36% crit self buffed. He didn't have any enchants on the gear (except the stuff you can get from CE and Aldor), so he was missing a bit of RAP and crit here and there.

So yes, with proper Kara/SSC/TK fully gemed and enchated gear, fully raid buffed and potted a Survival hunter can pretty surely hit 2600 RAP with 44% crit i think.

He pushed around 1150 DPS on Dr Boom btw (including Multi-Shots, so a bit lower on single targets), which is pretty impressive imo.

Read ya, Phil

Equalizer · 05/14/07, 10:54 AM

My Armory is linked to my profile. And no SSC/TK gear.

The main changes to my armory were Agi gems/Enchants and a cloak and ring change (Ravenclaw Band and Blood Knight War Cloak).

So in the "Ranged Attack Power" box that includes Hunter's Mark? Because I only see that listed under "RAP Fighting Mob".

Just seems really high.

The buffs I used were max rank Gift, Major Agility Elixir, Warp Burger, TSA, Imp LOTP, Kings, max rank un-talented Grace of Air and max rank un-Talented Might.

Cheeky · 05/14/07, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by Equalizer

Just seems really high.

If you can find a flaw in the buffs, gear, or calculations I'd love to hear it. Otherwise, that's the numbers you'll see in game, based on the circumstances you provide the spreadsheet.

AndrewCarr · 05/14/07, 11:34 AM

It honestly doesn't seem that unrealistic. I'm hitting 2600-2700 rap as marks(raid buffed with major agi, no flask, no totems, hunter's mark ap not included), and my gear's pretty average. If I were to get t5/rogue leather, get the % rap talents from survival, etc., I can see it being only slightly behind Marks in terms of rap. After all, consider that you lose master marksman and careful aim, but still have TSA, a few additional buffs, +440 rap from mark, and % ap from SI).

Equalizer · 05/14/07, 12:27 PM

I guess I wasn't asking whether there were flaws. I was more asking whether I was reading it wrong.

But I guess 2600 ap isn't out of the realm of possibility.

Almost seems worth it...when Expose, and Mark are factored I end up at 3200+ ap. And sit comfy at 45ish% crit.

Very tempting.

Xeno · 05/16/07, 9:03 PM

Cheeky, great work with your spreadsheet. I've learned a lot. Few things I'd like to put out there:

As of version 15 the avoidance option is still protected.
Untalented focus regens 24 per tick not 25.
Your hunter ap to lightning breath dmg ratio is high, it's closer to 0.60% and at my testings statistical max it's 0.85%, as of May 16th anyways.
Your Don Santos' proc chance seems high to me, my very limited testing suggests with a 2.7 speed weapon, 15% quiver, 5/5 imp aspect of the hawk, the uptime is closer to 25%.
Mark of Conquest I'm nearly certain has a hidden cooldown.

helias126 · 05/17/07, 10:38 AM

Keep up the excellent work

Would love to see how Hourglass , Abacus and Bloodlust brooch compare to eachother cause i am not sure which one to use.
Any chance you could do that in future versions please?

Cheeky · 05/17/07, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by Xeno

Cheeky, great work with your spreadsheet. I've learned a lot. Few things I'd like to put out there:

As of version 15 the avoidance option is still protected.
Untalented focus regens 24 per tick not 25.
Your hunter ap to lightning breath dmg ratio is high, it's closer to 0.60% and at my testings statistical max it's 0.85%, as of May 16th anyways.
Your Don Santos' proc chance seems high to me, my very limited testing suggests with a 2.7 speed weapon, 15% quiver, 5/5 imp aspect of the hawk, the uptime is closer to 25%.
Mark of Conquest I'm nearly certain has a hidden cooldown.

I just tested on version 16, and it seems to allow you to select it. I still don't model anything for it, and I have no idea what the training point costs are, so selecting it really has no effect.
Fixed in version 16 (which is available).
I'm still waiting to get some better figures on this. I need to see a lot of LB data so we can draw some conclusions. I'd like to figure out damage scaling, miss%, resist%, crit%, etc.
Again, this is the result of not enough data. If someone can provide the %chance for it to proc (or PPM if it works that way) I can model it better. I don't have the weapon, so I can't test myself. A couple thousand shots at Dr. Boom with something to track how often it procs (both with and without quiver/SS) should do the trick. Also, can it proc off specials?
I think it does too, but I need to do more testing to figure out what it is. Should be fairly straightforward, I'll see if I can test it this weekend.

Originally Posted by helias126

Would love to see how Hourglass , Abacus and Bloodlust brooch compare to eachother cause i am not sure which one to use.
Any chance you could do that in future versions please?

Bloodlust Brooch is fully modeled. Just select it's ability in your shot rotation and see how it changes your DPS for the next 20 seconds. Abacus's on-use ability should also be modeled corrcetly the random chance requires the same type of information I need for Don Santos (I don't have an Abacus either, because Pathaleon hates me). For the Hourglass I need to figure out what the exact cooldown is and %chance to proc on crit. I should be able to model it as an average +AP with that data.

Bikiniwax · 05/17/07, 12:33 PM

Has anyone determined the proc rate for Romulo's Poison Vial for 2.1. The +35 To Hit is very nice but wondering if it would replace my Hourglass or Mark of Conquest (don't have brooch yet).

EDIT: I think i found it at 6.28%. No sure where this puts it as far as as DPS compared to other trinkets yet.