Hunter Spreadsheets -- In development - Page 152

Keltarrant · 07/15/08, 3:46 PM

says the file is passworded for me

dont know how to fix this

Cheeky · 07/15/08, 4:19 PM

Originally Posted by Keltarrant

says the file is passworded for me

dont know how to fix this

That's only a problem if you want to modify it.

Keltarrant · 07/15/08, 5:27 PM

Originally Posted by Cheeky

That's only a problem if you want to modify it.

what do you mean?
because ive tryed saving it and opening it and it gives me that response
if i try just straight opening it, i get that response

Cheeky · 07/15/08, 5:49 PM

Originally Posted by Keltarrant

what do you mean?
because ive tryed saving it and opening it and it gives me that response
if i try just straight opening it, i get that response

What application are you using? When, exactly, are you getting this message?

RSkillz · 07/16/08, 3:03 AM

Originally Posted by Cheeky

Yeah, I kind of got burned out on Hunter mechanics/theorycrafting for a while. Sorry about that.

That's fully understandable.

I'm wondering if there are otheres around that could take over your 'legacy' if (god forbid) you really decide to stop updating the spreadsheet.

Great to hear you're working on the performance part.

Keep up the great work!

Indora · 07/16/08, 9:47 AM

Originally Posted by Cheeky

Hey, does anyone have a link to a great model for the [Blackened Naaru Sliver] proc?

As far as I know it's 10% procchance and 45 sec internal cooldown, just as the most other trinkets.
(These values are also used in every other Spreadsheet I could find.)

Here's a little calculation for the average ap gain over the 20 seconds uptime:

A1: Shots per Second

A2: Seconds until fully buffed:
10 / A1

A3: AP Boost:
IF( A2 > 20 ; 20 * A1 * 44 / 2 ; A2 / 20 * 220 + (1- A1) / 20 * 440)

edit:
reference

Cheeky · 07/16/08, 11:17 AM

Originally Posted by Indora

As far as I know it's 10% procchance and 45 sec internal cooldown, just as the most other trinkets.
(These values are also used in every other Spreadsheet I could find.)

Here's a little calculation for the average ap gain over the 20 seconds uptime:

A1: Shots per Second

A2: Seconds until fully buffed:
10 / A1

A3: AP Boost:
IF( A2 > 20 ; 20 * A1 * 44 / 2 ; A2 / 20 * 220 + (1- A1) / 20 * 440)

edit:
reference

Using a 45 second internal cooldown, and 10% chance to proc, I'm getting an average +AP gain of 126.5 for my gear and setup. Um, wow, this is a really nice trinket!

The Gear Planner lists it as 9 DPS better than the [Madness of the Betrayer], which sounds about right. (Equipping it for me doesn't help as much as my [Tsunami Talisman] since I am so close to my haste cap.)

Sarutobi · 07/16/08, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by Indora

A1: Shots per Second

A2: Seconds until fully buffed:
10 / A1

Wait. Shouldn't that be 10 * A1. Dividing by shots per second would imply that it took longer to get the max stack the faster your attack speed was. And really, it should be 10 * (A1 / hit chance).

Or maybe I'm misreading something.

Cheeky · 07/16/08, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by Sarutobi

Wait. Shouldn't that be 10 * A1. Dividing by shots per second would imply that it took longer to get the max stack the faster your attack speed was. And really, it should be 10 * (A1 / hit chance).

Or maybe I'm misreading something.

Here is the model I landed up using:

Blackened Naaru Sliver	
Cooldown			45
Chance per shot to proc		10%
Max stack			10
+AP per stack			44 (Sap)
Maximum +AP			440 (Map)
Seconds per Shot		0.90 (Sps)
Time for Buff			20 (T)
Time to maximize proc		8.95 (Tm)
Average AP while under proc	341.51
Time between procs		53.95
Average uptime			37.07%
Average benefit in AP		126.59

My Calculation for the Average AP is as follows:

if (Tm < T)
  AP = ((Map * Tm * 0.5) + (Map * (T - Tm))) / 20
else
  AP = floor(T/SpS) * 44 * 0.5
endif

For time between procs:
10 * Sps + 45 (number shots to proc * seconds per shot + cooldown)

Anyone see any flaws? I will modify Seconds per Shot to be influenced by chance to hit (seconds per shot / hit %) With my 141 hit rating this lowers the average AP gain by 0.03 AP (to 126.56).

Unless, like Quick Shots, we discover the proc can occur on missed shots as well.

Lawled · 07/16/08, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by Cheeky

Here is the model I landed up using:

Blackened Naaru Sliver	
Cooldown			45
Chance per shot to proc		10%
Max stack			10
+AP per stack			44 (Sap)
Maximum +AP			440 (Map)
Seconds per Shot		0.90 (Sps)
Time for Buff			20 (T)
Time to maximize proc		8.95 (Tm)
Average AP while under proc	341.51
Time between procs		53.95
Average uptime			37.07%
Average benefit in AP		126.59

My Calculation for the Average AP is as follows:

if (Tm < T)
  AP = ((Map * Tm * 0.5) + (Map * (T - Tm))) / 20
else
  AP = floor(T/SpS) * 44 * 0.5
endif

For time between procs:
10 * Sps + 45 (number shots to proc * seconds per shot + cooldown)

Anyone see any flaws? I will modify Seconds per Shot to be influenced by chance to hit (seconds per shot / hit %) With my 141 hit rating this lowers the average AP gain by 0.03 AP (to 126.56).

Unless, like Quick Shots, we discover the proc can occur on missed shots as well.

I'm not to good with it comes this this stuff ..

But for "Time to maximize proc 8.95 (Tm)"

Does that mean it takes 9 seconds to get the full 440 AP? If it procs 1/10 hits, to get a full 10 stack you would need 100 shots .. correct?

Don't quote me on this, maybe I'm just confused lol.

Walrusface · 07/16/08, 12:56 PM

Ok, perhaps there is a thread already and I have not found it.....but im looking for gear rankings much like the ones done for enhancement shamans Shaman: Enhancement My DPS is way low for a BM hunter, and I think its my gear but I'm not sure what I really should be looking for.

Kilrage · 07/16/08, 1:02 PM

Originally Posted by Walrusface

Ok, perhaps there is a thread already and I have not found it.....but im looking for gear rankings much like the ones done for enhancement shamans Shaman: Enhancement My DPS is way low for a BM hunter, and I think its my gear but I'm not sure what I really should be looking for.

The Gear Planner tab on the hunter spreadsheet works ok, so does maxdps.com website.

Sarutobi · 07/16/08, 1:13 PM

Originally Posted by Lawled

I'm not to good with it comes this this stuff ..

But for "Time to maximize proc 8.95 (Tm)"

Does that mean it takes 9 seconds to get the full 440 AP? If it procs 1/10 hits, to get a full 10 stack you would need 100 shots .. correct?

Don't quote me on this, maybe I'm just confused lol.

It's a 10% chance for the trinket to proc. Once the trinket procs, every shot for the next 20 seconds adds to the buff stack, up to a maximum of 10.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, when the trinket procs and you go into the 'battle trance', I'm guessing you start off with 1 stack of the buff (anyone with the trinket c/d?), and if that's the case, then it would only take 9 shots after the proc to get to the max stack. I realize that it would only make a difference of ~1 second in the time it takes to get to the max stack, but we want to make this as accurate as possible.

Lawled · 07/16/08, 1:15 PM

Originally Posted by Sarutobi

It's a 10% chance for the trinket to proc. Once the trinket procs, every shot for the next 20 seconds adds to the buff stack, up to a maximum of 10.

Ahh, well ignore that bit them

Indora · 07/16/08, 2:17 PM

Originally Posted by Sarutobi

Originally Posted by Indora
A1: Shots per Second

A2: Seconds until fully buffed:
10 / A1

Wait. Shouldn't that be 10 * A1. Dividing by shots per second would imply that it took longer to get the max stack the faster your attack speed was. And really, it should be 10 * (A1 / hit chance).

Or maybe I'm misreading something.

You're misreading it.
It's Shots per Seconds, not Seconds per Shot!

Two exmaples:
1. 0,5 Shots per Seconds (2 Seconds per Shot):
10 / 0.5 = 20 seconds until maxed

2. 2 Shots per Second (0,5 Second per Shot):
10 / 2 = 5 seconds until maxed

Originally Posted by Sarutobi

EDIT: Now that I think about it, when the trinket procs and you go into the 'battle trance', I'm guessing you start off with 1 stack of the buff (anyone with the trinket c/d?), and if that's the case, then it would only take 9 shots after the proc to get to the max stack. I realize that it would only make a difference of ~1 second in the time it takes to get to the max stack, but we want to make this as accurate as possible.

No, it starts with 0 stacks.
Reference: Rogue Gear Spreadsheet

@Cheeky
As far as I can see your calculations are correct (If 0.90 is rounded).

Btw, I have a question about your Hourglass of the Unraveller / Tsunami Talismus calculations...

Tsunami Talisman	
AP Boost	340
Duration	10
Chance on crit	10%
Cooldown	45
Chance to crit	56,86%
Shots per Second	1,03
Time between procs	63,03
Average Uptime	13,69%


Average Uptime = Duration / (time between proccs + Duration)

Doesn't the internal cooldown start immideatly with the procc?
Your calculation implies it begins with the end of the procc.