Thanks, I'll get it updated.

I have not modeled this item yet, so it doesn't do anything.

So I can't currently make a thread, because I'm a noob which I understand. (Been on forums before where people forget to utilize the search function.) I was wondering what would be a good setup for a BE hunter for PVP? My current build (mostly BM with extended range, improved concussive and aimed shot) seems to be apt for leveling or instances but not really PVP. Not enough burst damage for my liking.

You probably want to check:

http://elitistjerks.com/f38/

You know ... the PvP forum.

Delicious irony.

A few more corrections for Cheeky's SS:

Rift-stalker helm is given 45agi, on live servers it only has 40.

Band of Eternity - Honored, should be 27 agi, 40 stm, 56 AP.


Nonetheless, nice work on the SS!

Cheeky I had a quick question about some of the equations behind your spreadsheet. At the moment, I'm most curious about +hit. From what information I've collected from various sources, +hit has a sort of "diminishing" returns affect as you get closer to the cap. What confuses me is the drastic effects losing some +hit has on my dps according to your sheet.

This is my armory, for reference:
The Armory

Tonight I won Legacy (hence the lack of enchant =P). I was pretty excited because I had seen it drop and passed it back when it was still a retnub/enhance shammy wep. This time it was myself and a MM/surv hunter rolling on it. After the raid, I was tooling around on the spreadsheet mostly to determine whether 35 agi or savagery would most benefit me. Needless to say, seeing that it actually leads to about a 3.5dps DROP over Legacy, I was a bit miffed. I figured this could only have to do with loosing the +hit on Sonic Spear, so I looked into resocketing my legs (just because they were cheapie gems) and found that for each +hit gem I was popping in my dps continued to drop =(. I guess what I'm saying is, assuming I'm thinking this through correctly (very likely, I'm a classics major and terrible at math), should have dropping those 6 agi gems for 6 hit gems raised my dps back up to closer to what it was with Sonic Spear, rather than further dropping it?

This probably doesn't make much sense because its 5:30am my time, but any comments on hit rating and whether I foolishly took this over a marks/surv hunter (at the hit cap due to surefooted) would be appreciated, as I definitely would have passed until I had other gear sporting +hit over taking a dps drop simply because its a leet purpz =(.

Edit: The questions aside from comments on +hit were relating to where you've culled info/math on +hit, or some kind of explanation aside from whats in your spreadsheet if your capable of bringing things down several levels to mine)! I was also baffled/curious because even when I switched from the Steelhawk Xbow I currently have to the Sunfury Bow of the Phoenix I saw a .5 dps increase, persumably due to losing +hit. What gives? Thanks!

Thanks lactose. I'm still confused about the hit, though. I can't find it now, but I swear I read an article on TKA something claiming that increasing +hit by 1% lead to an increase in damage by 1%, but that the closer you get to the cap, the closer this starts to scale down. If it scales down, though, its either not by much (hence losing dps with Legacy) or I'm confused about the implementation of the model in Cheeky's sheet.

The relative weighting of stats changes with each piece of gear you get. If you need the hit rating sonic spear is better overall DPS than Legacy.

Legacy suffers because it spends so heavily on MP5, the most expensive per point stat and stacks all the rest of the item budget into 3 things (Rather than spread them out across the 5 that are possible).

Increasing hit will increase DPS based on your current +hit and +crit numbers, and the present of Mortal Shots.

As an example, you have shots that deal 100 points of damage, 230 on crit and you fire 60 a second.

At 95% hit and 0% crit you deal, on average, 95 points of damage every time you shoot for 95 DPS.
At 96% hit and 0% crit you deal, on average, 96 points of damage every time you shoot for 96 DPS, or 1.05% more.

At 95% hit and 25% crit you deal, on average, 127.5 points of damage every time you shoot for 127.5 DPS
At 96% hit and 25% crit you deal, on average, 128.5 points of damage every time you shoot for 128.5 DPS, or 0.78% more.

As you can see, as more and more of your damage comes from critical hits, the impact of your hit rating lessens. This is reflected in the spreadsheet because I model average shot damage as:
(base damage) * ((crit multiplier) * (crit %) + (chance to hit - chance to crit))

This accounts for the fact that there is a one roll system, and you cannot "crit a miss". If you have a 30% crit rate, 30% of all shots you take (barring a 71+% miss rate) will be critical hits. Those that aren't, and don't miss, with be regular hits.

Now, without knowing every little detail of your gear, talent spec, and shot rotation, I can't say whay one item is a DPS gain or loss for you. Every equation in the spreadsheet is described as simply as I can make it in the Calculations tab. You should be able to trace through the derivations to see what exact changes are taking place from one item to the other. I'm fairly certain the math is correct, and this won't be the first time something non-obvious turned out to make a significant difference.

3600 shots per minute, eh? :P

I wrote pretty much exactly the same some while ago, I really really hope you were the one correcting me. Karma and all that

Other than that, the math in the spreadsheet should be fairly sound, most math regarding Hunter stuff is well documented by now, with some minor exceptions when it comes to the exact Hit cap (misses being reported with 8.6% Hit), Weapon Skill and its effect on Hit, and knowing with 100% certainty if Hunter attacks are on a 1-roll or 2-roll system (the results being very similar, and virtually impossible to get reliant parses on, or draw any good conclusions, without some very specific criteria fulfilled).

Another thing that might be a bit off is things like procs and trinkets. E.g. as far as I can remember (Cheeky should correct this if I'm wrong), we usually do average gain per proc / trinket. "On Use" abilities being what they are, it's often best to activate some skills when under the influence of another proc. E.g. Activating a +AP trinket when hastes proc, etc.
In this case, I believe, the spreadsheet will show a tad lower result than what could actually be expected.

I'm sorry if this has been answered before, but I've searched and came up with nothing.
Are the Beast-tamer's Shoulders (+3% pet dmg +2% pet crit ones) being calculated properly in this spreadsheet? I find it hard to believe that they're only a minor upgrade over t5.

please add in the darkmoon card crusade information

Great Spreadsheet...

i was curious if you include the calculations of Abacus of Violent Odds...and if it is working correctly..i see no abacus of violent odds on the calculations page under items

so is this working as intended??

I'm not quit sure how to model it yet. If you could point me to a thread that describes how, or provide that information yourself I'll get it in.

That trinket is something you can "proc" by selecting it in the Shot Rotation. There is a bug (I believe) in the current version with +haste trinkets not working correctly, but I have that fixed in the next sheet. Once you proc it, the effect can be seen in the shot timings until the duration is over. Don't proc it in the first shot, since the cooldown will stretch out the cycle timing to the point where your DPS looks worse. Start with an Auto Shot and then use it in the second choice.

And thank you for the compliment!

While you are updating, it would be nice if you could add some more BT items, like Band of Devastation and Black Bow. Also the timeless arrows are 53dps now.
Another thing would be the addition of 1-4 BM hunters to the buff tab. Just to see the calculations easily.

And I also might have missed that, but does the sheet show the tooltip dps somewhere? Might be good to be sure to have everything entered correctly.

And I was already wondering why Cheeky had wrong stats for the helm
Is there a list of changes somewhere?

Yes, as inaccurate as the Blizzard tooltip would be good, just for perfect comparison with the armory, as you did it with tooltip RAP.

Ok, your right about FI. I also only meant to have a general 3% damage buff added. But ok, I can do that by hand of course.

As for the changes, sure, yours are also very interesting, but what I meant was a list of changes to item stats. You seem to know some already, and I havent found a source yet.

What would also be very nice, might be a calculation for the Ashtongue Trinkets.

I usually just count on people telling me when they are wrong.

I can start working out the effects of the [Ashtongue Talisman of Swiftness], do you know if it has an internal cooldown or anything like that? I can figure out the frequency of Steady Shot from the shot rotations and just compute uptime. Easy enough to average out the +RAP gain then.

How would anyone really know about the an internal cooldown, I dont believe anyone is exalted yet
But I believe it will not have one, because it would be a really lame trinket if it did. If it doesnt on the other hand it will be the perfect BM trinket, as it gets better and better depending on your hasted speed.

[Arcane Infused Gem], [Talon of Al'ar] sound familiar? Seriously, the last good Class:Hunter trinket was the Royal Seal of Eldre'Thalas. On the surface this one looks decent. For my build/gear (1.96 seconds per Steady Shot) it works out to 131 RAP. That's 13 more than an averaged out [Bloodlust Brooch]. Meh, I'd expect more from something that is supposed to be the ultimate trinket in the game for Hunters.

Hum I think there should be quite a few that reads these boards that are already exalted, I myself is only 5k from exalted (rep gain is quite nice in there).

On that note I cannot seeing it having an internal cooldown but I guess I will find out next week hopefully.

Maa from Forte confirmed in the BM thread that it does not have an internal cooldown.