Hunter Spreadsheets -- In development - Page 20

The Iron Colonel · 06/08/07, 2:09 PM

It's essentially the same equation; the only thing to be wary of is confusing hit% with +hit%. Sorry for complicating that, I tend to have a need to go over things numerous times to make sure they're nailed down, but it seems like we're at a consensus on this now.

Groggan · 06/08/07, 3:04 PM

Hehe, yah, I like to work with Hit% cause it simplifies the equations a bit and is easy to drive (or to just assume is 100% since that is pretty easy to reach wtih in-game items).

Deathcabby · 06/08/07, 3:53 PM

Maybe you can help me. This is the first time I've tried working on a spreadsheet. I've entered all my gear/pet info/etc. and against a level 73 boss w/6000 armor my hunter dps is listed as 729.06 (that's with the Sunfury Bow of the Phoenix). If I switch the weapon to the Wrathfire hand-Cannon, which has 18.8 less dps, my hunter dps is listed at 737.27. I'm a 41/20/0 BM spec and I've got the dwarf gun racial bonus. I also have the Wolfslayer Sniper Rifle and it bumps up the hunter dps to 749.27. I'm thinking it's the racial ability and/or the speed of the gun, but I didn't realize it would make that big of a difference.

Am I missing something here???

Cheeky · 06/08/07, 4:26 PM

Originally Posted by Deathcabby

Maybe you can help me. This is the first time I've tried working on a spreadsheet. I've entered all my gear/pet info/etc. and against a level 73 boss w/6000 armor my hunter dps is listed as 729.06 (that's with the Sunfury Bow of the Phoenix). If I switch the weapon to the Wrathfire hand-Cannon, which has 18.8 less dps, my hunter dps is listed at 737.27. I'm a 41/20/0 BM spec and I've got the dwarf gun racial bonus. I also have the Wolfslayer Sniper Rifle and it bumps up the hunter dps to 749.27. I'm thinking it's the racial ability and/or the speed of the gun, but I didn't realize it would make that big of a difference.

Am I missing something here???

There was a bug in version 18 that had the wrong cast time for Steady Shot, making super-quick weapons look better than they really are. Please try with version 19, you should see more accurate numbers.

Deathcabby · 06/08/07, 5:18 PM

Thanks for the reply Cheeky! I was/am using version 19 and getting the same results:
(with a level 73 boss, this time with 0 armor)
Sunfury Bow of the Phoenix - Hunter DPS (no pet) 1143.70 (weapon speed 2.90, dps 83.3)
Wrathfire Hand Cannon - Hunter DPS (no pet) 1156.57 (weapon speed 2.00, dps 64.5)
Wolfslayer Sniper Rifle - Hunter DPS (no pet) 1175.39 (weapon speed 2.70, dps 79.1)

The Sunfury Bow has the highest dps of those 3 weapons, but it's also the slowest. Dunno if it's still acting funny or not, but I wouldn't think that the dwarf racial bonus to guns would make the Wrathfire gun do more damage than the Sunfury bow.

Cheeky · 06/08/07, 5:42 PM

Originally Posted by Deathcabby

Thanks for the reply Cheeky! I was/am using version 19 and getting the same results:
(with a level 73 boss, this time with 0 armor)
Sunfury Bow of the Phoenix - Hunter DPS (no pet) 1143.70 (weapon speed 2.90, dps 83.3)
Wrathfire Hand Cannon - Hunter DPS (no pet) 1156.57 (weapon speed 2.00, dps 64.5)
Wolfslayer Sniper Rifle - Hunter DPS (no pet) 1175.39 (weapon speed 2.70, dps 79.1)

The Sunfury Bow has the highest dps of those 3 weapons, but it's also the slowest. Dunno if it's still acting funny or not, but I wouldn't think that the dwarf racial bonus to guns would make the Wrathfire gun do more damage than the Sunfury bow.

Try plugging in a non-0 value for lag on the Shot Rotation. I can see the Wolfslayer being a bit better theoretically than the Sunfury. You loose just 11.76 damage from the Steady Shot, but gain a 6.9% greater frequency on Steady Shots. Once your Steady Shot damage is higher than 170 (so, all of us) your going to do more Steady Shot DPS with the Wolfslayer.

Hmm, thinking about this more, if you have no haste effects besides quiver you could achieve a 1.8s cycle with the wrathfire, so your steady shot damage is 52.64 less per shot, but you are getting them at a 31.03% increased rate. The damage cut off is again, ~170 for the Wrathfire to be higher Steady Shot DPS.

If you can get your Steady Shot DPS high enough with the faster weapons it can overcome the autoshot DPS difference (just ~20 between the Wrathfire and Sunfury.) I'm sure we could derive the point this happens for any 2 weapon's speed and DPS values. Of course to do this you are going to bleed mana out of your ass.

The Iron Colonel · 06/08/07, 5:51 PM

Not to mention the massive headache of maintaining that rotation. I guess that pales in comparison to the rectal bleeding, though, when you really think about it.

Deathcabby · 06/08/07, 7:00 PM

Ahh, with even 20ms latency, both the Sunfury and the Wolfslayer stay at their dps, but the Wrathfire drops about 16 dps. Push the latency up to 40ms and the Wrathfire gets even worse, but the other 2 stay the same. Good times. I think I'll try out the Wolfslayer tonight and see how it works =)

Also, I noticed that you didn't have a damage listed for an Owl's screech ability. The highest is Rank 5 and it does 33-61 physical damage (according to wowhead) and costs 20 focus. I tend to use an owl for raids due to the AP debuff. I hear there's a cap to how much you can debuff a boss, although I don't know what it is.

Groggan · 06/09/07, 4:56 PM

So, using Lactose's equation for salying from this thread how doe these equations look:

Auto Shot Damage	
((Crit %) * (2 + (Crit Multiplier) * (1 + Slaying Mod)) * (1 + Slaying Mod) + (Hit % - Crit %)) * (Average Weapon Damage + Scope + Ammo Damage + ((RAP / 14) * Weapon Speed)) * (1 + Damage Modifier) * (1 + Slaying Mod)

Steady Shot Damage	
((Crit %) * (2 + (Crit Multiplier) * (1 + Slaying Mod)) * (1 + Slaying Mod) + (Hit % - Crit %)) * ((.2 * RAP) + 150 + (Weapon DPS * 2.8)) * (1 + Damage Modifier) * (1 + Slaying Mod)

Arcane Shot Damage	
((Crit %) * (2 + (Crit Multiplier) * (1 + Slaying Mod)) * (1 + Slaying Mod) + (Hit % - Crit %)) * ((.15 * RAP) + 273) * (1 + Damage Modifier) * (1 + Slaying Mod)

Multi Shot Damage	
((Crit %) * (2 + (Crit Multiplier) * (1 + Slaying Mod)) * (1 + Slaying Mod) + (Hit % - Crit %)) * (Average Weapon Damage + Scope + Ammo Damage + 205 + ((RAP / 14) * 2.8)) * (1 + Damage Modifier) * (1 + Slaying Mod)
	
Variable Equations	X = Change in Crit %, Y = Change in RAP
Variable Auto Shot Damage	
((Crit % + X) * (2 + (Crit Multiplier) * (1 + Slaying Mod)) * (1 + Slaying Mod) + (Hit % - (Crit % + X))) * (Average Weapon Damage + Scope + Ammo Damage + (((RAP + Y) / 14) * Weapon Speed)) * (1 + Damage Modifier) * (1 + Slaying Mod)

Variable Steady Shot Damage	
((Crit % + X) * (2 + (Crit Multiplier) * (1 + Slaying Mod)) * (1 + Slaying Mod) + (Hit % - (Crit % + X))) * ((.2 * (RAP + Y)) + 150 + (Weapon DPS * 2.8)) * (1 + Damage Modifier) * (1 + Slaying Mod)

Variable Arcane Shot Damage	
((Crit % + X) * (2 + (Crit Multiplier) * (1 + Slaying Mod)) * (1 + Slaying Mod) + (Hit % - (Crit % + X))) * ((.15 * (RAP + Y)) + 273) * (1 + Damage Modifier) + (1 + Slaying Mod)

Variable Multi Shot Damage	
((Crit % + X) * (2 + (Crit Multiplier) * (1 + Slaying Mod)) * (1 + Slaying Mod) + (Hit % - (Crit % + X))) * (Average Weapon Damage + Scope + Ammo Damage + 205 + (((RAP + Y) / 14) * 2.8)) * (1 + Damage Modifier) (1 + Slaying Mod)

Trohck · 06/10/07, 5:03 AM

Originally Posted by Cheeky

I just uploaded version 19 of my spreadsheet. Here is the change log, if anyone is interested:
- Added in my initial modeling of Scorpid Poison.

Not sure if this is intentional, but I'm seeing the "Effective Rate" and "Chance to Maintain" of Scorpid Poison always equal to zero. In the case of Chance to Maintain it appears to be referencing the Scorpid Cooldown variable which is (incorrectly?) set to "Effective Rate" as opposed to the cooldown of 4 seconds.

Cheeky · 06/10/07, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by Trohck

Not sure if this is intentional, but I'm seeing the "Effective Rate" and "Chance to Maintain" of Scorpid Poison always equal to zero. In the case of Chance to Maintain it appears to be referencing the Scorpid Cooldown variable which is (incorrectly?) set to "Effective Rate" as opposed to the cooldown of 4 seconds.

Do you have Scorpid Poison listed as one of the Prioritized abilities? I take the rate of application from there based on when focus is available. I don't just blindly assume you will always have enough focus to use it.

There are also some errors in there in the DPS calculations if you have it close to focus-starved. I'll work on cleaning them up.

jurgen · 06/10/07, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by Cheeky

Do you have Scorpid Poison listed as one of the Prioritized abilities? I take the rate of application from there based on when focus is available. I don't just blindly assume you will always have enough focus to use it.

There are also some errors in there in the DPS calculations if you have it close to focus-starved. I'll work on cleaning them up.

when using my scorpid, I found it had a hard time maintaining the all-important debuff when any other dps ability was set to autocast (namely claw). I discussed this with my friend and he told me he turns everything off autocast except scorpid poison and then manually spams claw when FI is about to fade

jurgen · 06/10/07, 1:19 PM

I have a question for Groggan...I downloaded both your spreadsheet and shiorin's the other day. I hope you have shiorin's downloaded, if not you can ignore this post because I don't have a link to it. When I plug the values from my char sheet into her spreadsheet, I find crit rating to be much more effective than agi, as she has stated. However when I do the same in your spreadsheet, I get a significantly different result, specifically agi outweighs crit rating by a wide margin, which is what I would expect to occur.

Any idea why this may be the case? I'd like to note I favor your spreadsheet because when I plug in my values, yours will tell me my paper doll dps which matches what I see on my char sheet in-game

edit: also, to cheeky, you didn't update the speed on gladiator's heavy crossbow. It's currently 3.2, should be 3.1 speed.

Trohck · 06/10/07, 4:42 PM

Originally Posted by Cheeky

Do you have Scorpid Poison listed as one of the Prioritized abilities? I take the rate of application from there based on when focus is available. I don't just blindly assume you will always have enough focus to use it.

There are also some errors in there in the DPS calculations if you have it close to focus-starved. I'll work on cleaning them up.

Thanks, and sorry for the mistake on my part. Just figured this out on my own then came here to delete my post, but you had already responded.

Groggan · 06/11/07, 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by jurgen

I have a question for Groggan...I downloaded both your spreadsheet and shiorin's the other day. I hope you have shiorin's downloaded, if not you can ignore this post because I don't have a link to it. When I plug the values from my char sheet into her spreadsheet, I find crit rating to be much more effective than agi, as she has stated. However when I do the same in your spreadsheet, I get a significantly different result, specifically agi outweighs crit rating by a wide margin, which is what I would expect to occur.

Any idea why this may be the case? I'd like to note I favor your spreadsheet because when I plug in my values, yours will tell me my paper doll dps which matches what I see on my char sheet in-game

edit: also, to cheeky, you didn't update the speed on gladiator's heavy crossbow. It's currently 3.2, should be 3.1 speed.

Nope, don't have shiorin's spreadsheet, sorry. You can see the equations I am using though in the post above or in the spreadsheet itself. If something looks wrong let me know (and let me know why it looks wrong too

).