Tiberium

Just a quick note re version 28 spreadsheet.

The [Fel Edged Battleaxe] is listed however there is no option to add the gem to the socket. As I assume you are continually reviewing just thought I'd let you know.

 

Koroshiya

I did a few searches for 'hunter's gear guide' and 'hunter excel gear list' and came up empty on both regards...

I have looked at Cheeky's excel sheet and it's pretty neat but for someone just hitting 70 and not familiar with the plethora of gear options.. a simple gear ranking sheet would be extremely helpful. Is there something I am not finding because of my search parameters?

I know the rogues have an excellent gear ranking guide based of AEP, MAEP, DAEP, etc.. I used it a whole lot making my rogue and it truly helped immensely. Is there something comparable for hunters?

If there's not would anyone be interested in working with me to create one? I have the template done for one, just need some help adjusting the weight of stats in order to get an appropriate AEP rating for hunters.

 

Kaber

Go to the armory, click a slot you want to upgrade and a list of everything that you could possibly upgrade to pops up.

The problem with trying to create a spread sheet for this (which you can find here by the way) is that the entire thing is spec, gear, and stat dependent, so there is no list that will tell you what's best for you unless you happen to have whatever spec and gear everything was modeled off of. If this were to be done it would need to be a spreadsheet with close to the same level of complexity as Cheeky's spread sheet. You would have to be able to enter spec, current stats/gear, pet, among other things and base the weighed outcomes on Arcazua's AEP 2.0 values to get something that would be accurate for everyone.

 

Koroshiya

Thanks, that's exactly what I was looking for.

I understand that it's not perfect but it's certainly easier to rank gear on a first run based off AEP then it is to try and put everything all together at once. For someone like me who is running things as groups can be found.. it's nice to be able to pull up quick upgrades.. and personally the armory upgrade recommendations are flat out wrong most of the time from my experience.

I am not a newbie.. just not been a hunter before, so I am trying to find some equivalences between what I am used to and the new class to hopefully make the migration easier.

However, with that being said, that was the information I was attempting to find and I appreciate it!

 

Kaber

At the very least I would highly recommend using the AEP 2.0 values for your build, then cross referencing your point totals with what you find in Khanate's gear sheet. I have used Khanate's sheet in the past, but I found if I was going to the trouble to calculate my AEP values for my build, pulling up the calculator, plugging everything in, then referencing its actual relative value for my build - I was better off just plugging the piece of gear into Cheeky's spread sheet to see how it actually affected my damage.

 

Glaurong

Plug your gear into the spreadsheet, play with a custom offhand or whatever slot you can to determine how much 1 point of each stat is worth for you.

Take those and plug them into lootzor.com.

Win.

Log Parser for BM Hunters (Right click, save as) - Updated 10/11/2007

 

Raba_Storm

HAEP: Homepage is a good site for comparing items with your own preferred HAEP values.

 

• vank

Except the gems that are defaults aren't what I'd use. Is there a way to change the selection?

 

Glaurong

It is supposed to use the gem combination that will give you the highest score (including the bonus if it can get it). Perhaps include the score for Agility with kings?

Log Parser for BM Hunters (Right click, save as) - Updated 10/11/2007

 

Jakt

This may have already been covered, but I plugged in my gear into the latest version of the spreadsheet and was a bit surprised at the discrepancy between my average auto-shot/steady shot damage as shown by WWS and the average auto-shot damage I was expecting from the spreadsheet.

What I found was that I had to add about 50% armor mitigation for these values to match. That seems a bit much for your average fully sundered boss (for ease of use I was looking at the huntsman). I was expecting mitigation to be much closer to 30% and have a hard time believing that the remaining 20% is made up by slightly sub-optimal hunter's mark and trinket use.

Any ideas?

 

Tiberium

Whilst by no means perfect I find, Compare Hunter Items - survival-raid-pure-damage - Head to be a very good "aid" to at a glance gear selection. Configurable to boot.

 

khel

Yep. Using Cheeky's spreadsheet and my current gear, with my typical raid buffs, I came up with the following values:


1 agi = 0.639 dps
1 ap = 0.276 dps
1 cr = 0.530 dps


I just multiplied by 10 when setting the values to make things a bit easier, (1agi = 6.39, 1ap = 2.76, 1cr = 5.30), and estimated some values for hit rating (because it caps), intellect, mana/5, and stamina. Really these values fluctuate from fight to fight, depending on your assignment and group setup...since sometimes you might have a shadowpriest and then as BM, intellect and mana/5 become useless. Some fights stamina is worth more than others. On Vashj you don't need to max out your hit rating really to kill elementals and bats effectively.

I just used:

1 agi = 6.39
1 ap = 2.76
1 cr = 5.3
1 hr = 5.0
1 int = 1.0
1 stam = 1.0
1 mana/5 = 6.39

and feel fairly confident with the results so far.

 

Cheeky

Hunter's Mark would be my first guess. It's amazing how much damage you loose when it falls off. For a 2.7s weapon that's ~85 damage before modifiers.

Also, different bosses have different armor values. Try a bit of Dr. Boom testing to see how accurate the numbers are for you. I think Boom has between 25-30% armor.

Cheeky of Havoc

 

◊ Lactose

Regarding the whole x AP gives y DPS, mentioned in other threads, especially after the mention of the macro stuff...

Would it be possible to do something like the following:

Have a new table, with the following information:
+1 Agility = x DPS (personal/pet + total?)
Same for Crit, AP, Hit, etc

1. Copy current stats (Agility, Crit, AP, Hit, DPS (pet+personal), etc somewhere
2. Increase Agility by 1
3. Compare new DPS to copied DPS
4. Input change in DPS into the new table
5. Repeat 1-4 with other stats (Crit, AP, Hit, etc)
6. Copy old stats back


This would then, when the macro was executed, fill a table with how much adding +1 of any relevant stat would increase your DPS, allowing you to easily make equivalency points for your current gear/spec, and compare stats more directly, e.g. for gemming purposes.

Look, Lactose, we'd rather you didn't eradicate the whole human race.
- Sam & Max

 

Koroshiya

Okay to clear up a few things...

1. I like the AEP system because for me not knowing what gear I want at all helps me narrow the list. Right now Cheeky's spreadsheet has A LOT of gear.. and I don't know where a lot of it is. So the AEP system allows me to narrow the gear to 5 mans only to start, then move on to Kara and above... It helps me at a glance learn what's available for each slot.. and then I know if I want Head Slot A from say BM, then there is no reason to take Head Slot B from Arc, unless no one needs it and it's an upgrade. I prefer to pass or greed on items I will only consider temporary items, because I would rather someone be given a shot at an item, if nothing else for the gold, then upgrade only to turn around and vendor sell it an hour later when I get the piece I really want. At higher instances it's less of an issue because you don't progress as fast as you do through the 5 man stage.

2. I appreciate all the links of information, I am researching them now. Cheeky again great job on the spreadsheet, it's just a bit overwhelming when you have no clue of what's available to you as an unguilded hunter trying to get geared before app'ing to a guild.

Side Note: I recently returned to the game and transferred off a PvP server to a PvE server, to play with a real life friend. We are both unguilded at the moment and want to make sure we get our gear in order and present ourselves as respectable players before app'ing to a guild.

 

Cheeky

I'll play around with that this evening. I need to get some work in to update the DST model for 2.2 anyway. One problem I've run into in the past is having macros that span different sheets. For some reason they always error on me. I might have to put the button on the gear page, but the results could still show up on the 'Settings and Results' tab.

Cheeky of Havoc

 

Jakt

Alright, went to Dr Boom and fired a few hundred shots while keeping Hunter's Mark up. This has gotten me a little closer to actually observed numbers, but I am still finding I need to put in 37.5% mitigation to get my observed numbers. Still doesn't seem right. Maybe there are input ranges for which the spreadsheet is less accurate?

 

◊ Lactose

I'll check Dr. Boom's armor mitigation when I get back home, so roughly 30-45 minutes.

Look, Lactose, we'd rather you didn't eradicate the whole human race.
- Sam & Max

 

Jakt

Just to give some more info on how I have been testing:

1) In the spreadsheet
- I have double checked that the values derived from gear match those on my character sheet

- I've turned off things like TBW and +AP from on-use trinkets

- When making the comparison I've taken into account that I won't have FI on Dr Boom

2) Testing against Dr Boom
- I keep Hunter's Mark refreshed. I realize that the first 30 shots will average out a little lower, but that this effect will be fairly minimal over a longer period of time. If I did the math correctly the AP contribution from hunters mark should be 110 + 330/2 = 275 instead of 440 for those shots. I just did some back of the envelope calculations and the 30 initial shots should not impact the average accross 400 shots by more than 1%.

- My averages are for around 400 auto shots. The average does not seem to move a whole lot at this point. I'm not using trinkets/TBW

 

◊ Lactose

Tested, Dr. Boom has 37.0% armor mitigation, +/- 0.3%.

Look, Lactose, we'd rather you didn't eradicate the whole human race.
- Sam & Max

 

Cheeky

Let's hear it for the math!

Looks like the problems you were seeing in raids are through HM expiring. We tend to give one Hunter the responsibility to keep it up. Same guy who does Scorpid Sting, so he's used to watching cool downs.

Cheeky of Havoc

 

Jakt

Yea, happy that it all worked out. Now I just need to learn how to play ;-)

 

Kaber

I would recommend using Hit's actual value in the spread sheet until you reach cap and then 0 it out to get more accurate results. You may be devalueing Hit items that would be an upgrade.

 

Cheeky

Well, I spent a ton of time (too much actually) on this tonight. I've gotten a lot of suggestions from everyone for fixes/feature/comments. Here is a listing of the change log right now:

- Fix Draenei racial to actually be counted as +1% to hit.
- Added new gear (Halaani Razorshaft, Halaani Grimshot).
- Fixed the fact that Madness of the Betrayer was always in effect, even if you didn't have the trinket.
- Updated model of Dragonspine Trophy to include a user-provisionable cooldown. Default is 20 seconds. The model had to completely change to support the internal cooldown, setting it to 0 will not generate the same numbers given previously. Please use verison 28 of the spreadhseet to get numbers for 2.1 with the Dragonspine Trophy
- Provided the user the ability to select 2.1 or 2.2 Haste Rating conversion rates. (This will be removed when 2.2 goes live.)
- Corrected some equations that would cause "Divide by 0" errors in certain shot rotations.
- Allow for multiple, user-named gear sets. 5 different sets can be maintained. The last DPS value of that set is stored as well. (This feature not available to Open Office users.)
- Added AutoOnly buttons to the Shot Rotations. This should make it eaiser to hand-build custom rotations. (This feature not available to Open Office users.)
- On a brilliant suggestion from Lactose, there is now a button (CalcAttributes) on the gear page which will instantaneously give you the DPS advantage of adding one more Agility, AP, crit, or hit. You can also enable this feature to recalculate the values every time you change gear or hand adjustments. Set Loads are exempted from this recalculation because it made loading agonizingly slow. (This feature not available to Open Office users.)


Please post any additional suggestions (or pm me) that you may have that I've missed. There's a lot of cool stuff in here which should make it a little easier to evaluate future gear and compare whole sets of items. If I don't get anything major, I'll have this out tomorrow evening or early Saturday (depending on how much drinking I do tomorrow.)

Cheeky of Havoc

 

◊ Lactose

Just adding to my previous suggestion a bit...

With the table stating how much DPS you gain with +1 stat, this could be used to create a matrix like the following:

Look, Lactose, we'd rather you didn't eradicate the whole human race.
- Sam & Max