Hunter Spreadsheets -- In development - Page 35

Plague · 10/09/07, 2:45 AM

Hey Cheeky,

In version 34 of your spreadsheet, Serpent Spine Longbow is listed as having 16/7 stamina, and doesn't see to be counted in the stamina/HP totals.

intressepil · 10/09/07, 6:51 AM

This is all very minor and all, but I'm curious. Last night I finally got my [Darkmoon Card: Crusade] and I'm a happy tosser. One weird thing that I noticed though, was that I got got two different buffs from it; one larger expected stack of extra ap, and sometimes a smaller stack of exta spelldmg would start building. It didn't take long for me to realize that it was Kill Command which initiated that spelldmg-stack. I guess this means that Kill Command does spelldamage. As this is pretty minor, I can realize if Cheeky simply says "no, this is to minor for a fix", I'm curious if this is taken into account while modeling the Crusade card in the spreadsheet ("this" being the fact that Kill Command would deal more damage if you have the card, especially in a longer fight where the pet is just hitting the boss, like Void Reaver or Morogrim).

Lactose · 10/09/07, 6:57 AM

Kill Command may be classified as a spell (which I think it is), but it does not do spell damage. I'm pretty sure it does normal (physical) damage, unaltered by +Spell Damage gear.

Shandara · 10/09/07, 7:05 AM

The same way wands are a physical attack that deals magical damage (and the card stacks up +AP for wands..). And wands aren't affected by AP of course.

Not very logical, but probably a limitation of the mechanic used by the card.

intressepil · 10/09/07, 7:52 AM

I see, thanks for the quick replies.

• vank · 10/09/07, 12:54 PM

Was wondering if anyone else noticed that Dragonspine Trophy is lowering their DPS on the spreadsheet as a Survival spec. I'm modeling with both Sunfury and Steam Pistol, 1:1.5 rotation, 0/20/41 build.

I'm not questioning the math. I'm more at a loss as to how this could be. I'm scouring these forums 20 times a day, and it's always been my impression that this trinket is a clear cut upgrade, regardless of spec, even after the nerf.

What am I missing?

Cheeky · 10/09/07, 1:37 PM

Originally Posted by vank

Was wondering if anyone else noticed that Dragonspine Trophy is lowering their DPS on the spreadsheet as a Survival spec. I'm modeling with both Sunfury and Steam Pistol, 1:1.5 rotation, 0/20/41 build.

I'm not questioning the math. I'm more at a loss as to how this could be. I'm scouring these forums 20 times a day, and it's always been my impression that this trinket is a clear cut upgrade, regardless of spec, even after the nerf.

What am I missing?

Is the Shot Rotation you use with the DST active lower DPS than your normal one? If so, then any DST procs will lower your DPS.

Always question the math if it doesn't seem right. Otherwise people wouldn't catch all my fuck-ups.

• vank · 10/09/07, 1:45 PM

I just re-specced survival last night and have not killed a single mob. I'm basing all of this on The Spreadsheet. As that goes, I would assume 1:1 rotation when hasted. Auto -> Steady, unhasted, is definitely less DPS than Auto->Steady->Special->Auto->Steady; so I think the answer to your question is "yes", which makes me a sad man.

Gruknok · 10/09/07, 2:34 PM

Originally Posted by vank

I just re-specced survival last night and have not killed a single mob. I'm basing all of this on The Spreadsheet. As that goes, I would assume 1:1 rotation when hasted. Auto -> Steady, unhasted, is definitely less DPS than Auto->Steady->Special->Auto->Steady; so I think the answer to your question is "yes", which makes me a sad man.

Dont forget mana pool. But id say you need to screw up your gear so much to be low on mana as survival.

Cheeky · 10/09/07, 3:02 PM

Originally Posted by vank

I just re-specced survival last night and have not killed a single mob. I'm basing all of this on The Spreadsheet. As that goes, I would assume 1:1 rotation when hasted. Auto -> Steady, unhasted, is definitely less DPS than Auto->Steady->Special->Auto->Steady; so I think the answer to your question is "yes", which makes me a sad man.

I did an analysis on the official forums on the 2.2 DST and it really doesn't help MM/Survival Hunters anymore from a DPS standpoint. You don't get enough of a haste effect with the 2.9s-3.0s weapons to out DPS the 1:1.5 rotation unhasted. It's a good way to recover a ton of mana efficiency at the cost of some DPS, but it won't increase your damage done.

For BM Hunters the haste proc isn't up enough with the internal cooldown to make up for the DPS lost staying in a 1:1 rotation unhasted with slow weapons.

Whatever the intent to control Rogue DPS was, the changes to haste/DST pretty much wrecked it for Hunters. For really high DPS slow weapons it is nice (BM Hunters only), but it's not a whole lot better than other trinkets.

Krytos · 10/09/07, 4:42 PM

I ping anywhere from 200-300 to my server.

I play survival spec with 1:1.5 rotation.
I noticed a 80dps loss when going from 100ms lag to 300ms lag in the spreadsheet. The reason for this is that autoshot is delayed by about .3 seconds every step of the way in my rotation.

Since fixing the lag isn't really a reliable option, I was wondering if a stop casting macro would be viable like the mages use.

has anyone messed around with different ways to eliminate down time in the rotation in such a way?

Like i said, eliminating the lag from a rotation, could yeild 80-100 dps difference for a 1:1.5 rotation that is so dependant on lag time.

Lactose · 10/09/07, 4:49 PM

Currently, Cheeky has Auto Shot being affected by latency, but he's looking into it.
I'm doing some tests on it as well, so the Auto Shot DPS loss of latency might not be as bad as currently modelled.

/stopcasting stops an Auto Shot cast.

Krytos · 10/09/07, 5:36 PM

I have 5/5 imp arcane shot (just trying it out, since arcane seems to be more instant than multi, and should decrease autoshot interruption by a little.

I have no haste gear, so 2.52 with sunfury is the default time between auto shots.

Heres a little excerpt from solarian:

02:44'28.312 Krytos's Auto Shot crits High Astromancer Solarian for 1497
02:44'30.875 Krytos's Auto Shot crits High Astromancer Solarian for 1821
02:44'32.656 Krytos's Steady Shot crits High Astromancer Solarian for 1928
02:44'32.921 Krytos's Arcane Shot hits High Astromancer Solarian for 684 Arcane damage (192 resisted)
02:44'33.765 Krytos's Auto Shot hits High Astromancer Solarian for 762
02:44'36.890 Krytos's Steady Shot hits High Astromancer Solarian for 841
02:44'37.828 Krytos's Auto Shot crits High Astromancer Solarian for 2018
02:44'39.343 Krytos's Steady Shot crits High Astromancer Solarian for 2468
02:44'39.734 Krytos's Arcane Shot crits High Astromancer Solarian for 2572 Arcane damage
02:44'40.406 Krytos's Auto Shot hits High Astromancer Solarian for 895
02:44'45.265 Krytos's Steady Shot crits High Astromancer Solarian for 2430
02:44'45.375 Krytos's Arcane Shot hits High Astromancer Solarian for 1109 Arcane damage
02:44'46.093 Krytos's Auto Shot hits High Astromancer Solarian for 906
02:44'48.375 Krytos's Steady Shot hits High Astromancer Solarian for 945
02:44'49.750 Krytos's Auto Shot hits High Astromancer Solarian for 865
02:44'50.906 Krytos's Steady Shot crits High Astromancer Solarian for 2252
02:44'51.421 Krytos's Arcane Shot crits High Astromancer Solarian for 2555 Arcane damage
02:44'52.015 Krytos's Auto Shot hits High Astromancer Solarian for 844
02:44'54.140 Krytos's Steady Shot crits High Astromancer Solarian for 2193
02:44'55.453 Krytos's Auto Shot hits High Astromancer Solarian for 797

you can see where i let 2 auto shots go off without casting any other spells. the delay was 2.56 which is VERY close to the 2.52 target time.

as soon as the rotation starts, most are 2.8-2.9 some worse some better.

I have a macro for steady auto, the same one that everyone uses, while steady is going im spamming my arcane shot.

the rotation i use with 0 lag, should not interrupt auto shot. but we can see here in the log that its being delayed by almost half a second every time. I attribute this to the 300ms lag I normally get to my wow server.

edit: this leads me to believe that autoshot dps might not be much affected by lag on its own, but cast lag and gcd lag have a major affect.

Cheeky · 10/09/07, 6:24 PM

Originally Posted by Krytos

the rotation i use with 0 lag, should not interrupt auto shot. but we can see here in the log that its being delayed by almost half a second every time. I attribute this to the 300ms lag I normally get to my wow server.

edit: this leads me to believe that autoshot dps might not be much affected by lag on its own, but cast lag and gcd lag have a major affect.

Any macro gets punished by lag. There is also a fair bit of jitter in combat logs.

The log you link has a bunch of long delays between shots, so it's not real useful to draw conclusions from. Getting a similar log from a stand-still fight like Dr. Boom is a better way to generalize. You have periods with 4-5 seconds between Auto Shots, I'm assuming this is from movement, bandaging, etc.

sepulturian · 10/10/07, 4:28 AM

Hey,
I'm really new to this sort of thing and have been taking awhile to explore the spreadsheet. Its absoluetly brilliant...I didn't even think that something like this was possible. I was looking for something like this for aaages. Now forgive me, but I've added all my gear and all and can't seem to find a cell that displays my total ranged attack power, and also the buttons in the spreadsheet don't work (save/load etc) when i click em. Anyone know why?

Cheeky · 10/10/07, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by sepulturian

Hey,
I'm really new to this sort of thing and have been taking awhile to explore the spreadsheet. Its absoluetly brilliant...I didn't even think that something like this was possible. I was looking for something like this for aaages. Now forgive me, but I've added all my gear and all and can't seem to find a cell that displays my total ranged attack power, and also the buttons in the spreadsheet don't work (save/load etc) when i click em. Anyone know why?

You can find your RAP in the 'Calculations' tab. Good idea on moving that to the 'Settings and Results' though, I'll try and get that done in the next version.

If the buttons don't work it's usually 1 of 2 problems:

1 - You are not using Microsoft Excel, but Open Office. Open Office does not support Visual Basic, which is what the buttons use.

2 - You are using Microsoft Excel, but you have the security settings set to not use macros. The buttons are macros, and in general macros could do potentially bad things to your computer. Mine do not (and it's one of the reasons I password protect the whole thing.) You can enable macros for the spreadhseet and the buttons should do what they are supposed to.

And thank you for the kind words.

Mandaboo · 10/10/07, 2:15 PM

Another possibility is that you haven't selected/changed the set name. I have been using Cheeky's spreadsheet for awhile now and thought I had learned all the little tricks of it, but then felt really dumb when I realized that there is this handy little set feature. When you click the buttons, it saves the set to whatever the set name currently is in cell B6 on the Gear Tab. You can use the drop down box to select a different set to save or load in that cell. You can change the name of the sets in cell H27-H31 on the Settings and Results tab. You are possibly smarter than I apparently am and figured this out already, but just offering it as a possible simple solution to your problem

Reipin Pillage · 10/11/07, 12:45 PM

Socket bonus on Gronnstalker helm is incorrect. In the spreadsheet it is giving +4 hit rating but it is +4 crit rating.

Cheeky · 10/11/07, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by Reipin Pillage

Socket bonus on Gronnstalker helm is incorrect. In the spreadsheet it is giving +4 hit rating but it is +4 crit rating.

Thanks, I'll get that fixed.

[Gronnstalker's Helmet] - to make it easier for me to verify all the stats later when I read this.

sepulturian · 10/12/07, 3:05 AM

Thank you for your promt responses. Problems solved...and once again this spreadsheet is simply blowing my mind. Great work

Jaxon · 10/14/07, 12:03 AM

I plugged in the new badge rewards from 2.3 with the armor penetration on them and I noticed that Penetration from wrists and waist wasn't being counted.

Ladwenae · 10/14/07, 10:17 PM

First of all thx for all the work put into this, its a super tool

Merciless Gladiator's Chain Helm set bonus is not showing ( not that it really matters.. )

I am missing an option to add ferocious inspiration as a buff, have I simply missed it somewhere or is it not an option currently, and if its not is it possible to add it and perhaps even so you can stack it with several?

Cheeky · 10/15/07, 1:44 AM

Originally Posted by Ladwenae

First of all thx for all the work put into this, its a super tool

Merciless Gladiator's Chain Helm set bonus is not showing ( not that it really matters.. )

I am missing an option to add ferocious inspiration as a buff, have I simply missed it somewhere or is it not an option currently, and if its not is it possible to add it and perhaps even so you can stack it with several?

I've gotten enough requests for FI that I can add it. Not sure what I'll use as a baseline, since it is never a true 3% increase.

I'll check that set bonus too. Thanks.

illpalazzo · 10/15/07, 7:04 AM

is anyone else having the problem that class buffs and are or scrolls are not working in the open office version or did i just fuck up something

Modran · 10/15/07, 7:15 AM

does anybody know if the RED meta gem got fixed recently?