Hunter Spreadsheets -- In development - Page 39

Ralith · 08/21/07, 8:35 PM

Originally Posted by Cheeky

Your paper doll does not factor in on-proc +AP/+% benefits to damage, nor the effects of critical hits. I do.

And the numbers are correct if you can actually stand still and just DPS, timing your shots to the latency you specify. That's pretty much impossible for most raid bosses, so think of it as a potential, not a baseline.

If you don't believe the numbers you don't have to use the spreadsheet.

Hmm... I have the averging out of ap trinkets/BM off...

I'm not saying what you wrote is wrong, just that I am probably missing something here.

Because even with crits... thats only +~20% damage or so (With a 20% crit)... and 555-692 damage is 623.5 average... *1.2=748.2. I can't see where the spread sheet is getting 921 auto shot damage from that... thats an extra 175 damage almost (All buffs should be off... Hunters mark gives some if it is counting that there but not 175 damage). Add in the talent for crit but thats an extar 30% damage on crits which would be... 623*.2=124*.3=37...damage... (738+37=785) So thats still over 130 more damage to account for that I can't find...

I'm just trying to figure out how to work it because I can't be doing it right and getting that I can do nearly 1k dps when I've never come near that before.

OK I just tested it with NO ARMOR except my weapon and I STILL at 632 DPS!!!! At 5000 armor I'm doing 430 dps with NO armor except my bow! What am I missing?

BTW whats a fair armor value? Most bosses have somewhere between like 15-30% reduction don't they?

Cheeky · 08/21/07, 9:45 PM

Originally Posted by Ralith

Hmm... I have the averging out of ap trinkets/BM off...

I'm not saying what you wrote is wrong, just that I am probably missing something here.

Because even with crits... thats only +~20% damage or so (With a 20% crit)... and 555-692 damage is 623.5 average... *1.2=748.2. I can't see where the spread sheet is getting 921 auto shot damage from that... thats an extra 175 damage almost (All buffs should be off... Hunters mark gives some if it is counting that there but not 175 damage). Add in the talent for crit but thats an extar 30% damage on crits which would be... 623*.2=124*.3=37...damage... (738+37=785) So thats still over 130 more damage to account for that I can't find...

I'm just trying to figure out how to work it because I can't be doing it right and getting that I can do nearly 1k dps when I've never come near that before.

OK I just tested it with NO ARMOR except my weapon and I STILL at 632 DPS!!!! At 5000 armor I'm doing 430 dps with NO armor except my bow! What am I missing?

BTW whats a fair armor value? Most bosses have somewhere between like 15-30% reduction don't they?

Since the point of the spreadsheet is sustained DPS, I work out Hunter's mark as a maxed value of +440 AP. That's a fair bit of damage for most weapons, +88 for a 2.8s weapon.

Please look through the calculations tab, I really try to spell out each part of the calculation in mind-numbing detail. You may find a bug in it. I'll use my own values real quickly to illustrate Auto Shot:

[Don Santos' Famous Hunting Rifle] - 199 average damage.
[Felbane Slugs] for a 2.7s weapon - 99.9 damage
2454.62 "Effective RAP" (Gear, Aspect of Hawk, Hunter's Mark, Santos' proc, averaged trinkets) for a 2.7s weapon - 472.39 damage

Shot damage before modifiers - 772.29
Critical Hit chance - 24.92% for 236.9% damage
Hit chance - 98.7%
Effective, average gain from Hit/Crit - 132.82%
Focused Fire - 102%
Average Ferocious Inspiration effect - 102.95%
Total Adjustment (multiplicative) - 139.48%

Total Average Auto shot damage - 1077.19 (paper doll average of 682)

LokE · 08/22/07, 6:42 AM

[Rogue/Warrior] Weapon Skill Adjustment Discussion

i thought 137 was the hit cap everyone had aggreed upon though it seems that they disproved that and bumped it up to 142, does this validate an update of the spreadsheet or is the difference to minor to notice ?

Lactose · 08/22/07, 7:10 AM

As far as I know, Hunter tests aren't complete yet, and Cheeky's waiting for more data before changing it.

Hunterlin · 08/22/07, 7:28 AM

Originally Posted by Ralith

I just downloaded this sheet and choose what gear I have but it shows me doing over 900 damage on autoshot when my Armory profile has me at just under 700 max auto shot damage?

Armory does not add arrow DPS to listed damage.

Lactose · 08/22/07, 7:37 AM

Originally Posted by Hunterlin

Armory does not add arrow DPS to listed damage.

Incorrect.
Looking at his profile right now, I see:
1369 RAP, Steelhawk Crossbow (155-288, 2.80 speed, +12scope), Focused Fire buff not active

Armory lists Auto Shot damage as 544-678

37*2.8+(1369/14)*2.8+155+12 = 544.4 (minimum damage is rounded down)
37*2.8+(1369/14)*2.8+288+12 = 678.4 (maximum damage is rounded up)

Cheeky · 08/22/07, 10:09 AM

Originally Posted by Hunterlin

Armory does not add arrow DPS to listed damage.

If I remember correctly it is just Ranged Weapon Specialization's effect on armor that isn't shown on the tooltip. But they may have fixed that since pre-2.0.

Cheeky · 08/22/07, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by Lactose

As far as I know, Hunter tests aren't complete yet, and Cheeky's waiting for more data before changing it.

I think Olgas has good data that 9% is the new cap. But the effect of weapon skill on that is still up in the air. And it seems to be no longer linear in how miss% changes based on level difference.

I can go ahead and update the miss chance calculations, I think that research is mature enough. I'm going to leave +weapon skill alone until we know more.

Levidian · 08/22/07, 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by Lactose

I'd be more concerned about what you're replacing in order to fire Serpent Sting. For Beast Master Hunters, you'll probably more often than not have better / more damaging abilitites at your disposal, while Marksman / Survival Hunters might have some time now and again to throw it up there, due to having more 'dead time' between shots.

Thats what 4/5 imp arcane shot is for.

In a pure 7/48/6 build.

onsi · 08/22/07, 4:59 PM

good work with the spreadsheet Cheeky,much appreciated if you could add Madness of the betrayer any time soon.

Ralith · 08/22/07, 11:40 PM

Originally Posted by Cheeky

Since the point of the spreadsheet is sustained DPS, I work out Hunter's mark as a maxed value of +440 AP. That's a fair bit of damage for most weapons, +88 for a 2.8s weapon.

Please look through the calculations tab, I really try to spell out each part of the calculation in mind-numbing detail. You may find a bug in it. I'll use my own values real quickly to illustrate Auto Shot:

[Don Santos' Famous Hunting Rifle] - 199 average damage.
[Felbane Slugs] for a 2.7s weapon - 99.9 damage
2454.62 "Effective RAP" (Gear, Aspect of Hawk, Hunter's Mark, Santos' proc, averaged trinkets) for a 2.7s weapon - 472.39 damage

Shot damage before modifiers - 772.29
Critical Hit chance - 24.92% for 236.9% damage
Hit chance - 98.7%
Effective, average gain from Hit/Crit - 132.82%
Focused Fire - 102%
Average Ferocious Inspiration effect - 102.95%
Total Adjustment (multiplicative) - 139.48%

Total Average Auto shot damage - 1077.19 (paper doll average of 682)

Ah ok... thanks! I didn't understand how the calculations tab worked exactly, so it just adds all the items together... that makes more sense then!

khel · 08/23/07, 4:27 AM

Cheeky! Great work! I love your spreadsheet

When you have some time, do you think you could work in a few more things? The main thing that I see now is that there is no option for 1:0.5 rotations. I only see options for 1:1.5 (max specials), 1:1, and autoshotting. To maximize dps when haste effects bring your weapon speed below 1.7 though, you can fire a special between every other autoshot.

I think that this is a pretty big deal when considering how worthwhile the DST is to BM specs.

Eventually it would be nice to see a third tab for rotation adjustments during Thundering Skyfire procs, but with 3 passive procs I doubt that many people could handle managing shifting rotations so well. It would still be interesting though and a bit useful.

edit: Sorry this whole time I didn't realize that I could manually create my own rotation

Ato · 08/23/07, 4:45 AM

How do you use the buttons on the Shot Rotation tab? >_>

I click them but nothing happens. The ones like, 'Reset', 'Steady Rotation', 'PriorityRotation', etc.

LokE · 08/23/07, 5:02 AM

Im using Excel 2007, and macros was turned off by default in mine. When i open the spreadsheet i got a warning bar with a settings button on, clicking this would allow me to temporarily enable the macros, if i didn't click the button the bar would eventually dissapper after some time.

Cheeky · 08/23/07, 8:44 AM

Originally Posted by khel

Eventually it would be nice to see a third tab for rotation adjustments during Thundering Skyfire procs, but with 3 passive procs I doubt that many people could handle managing shifting rotations so well. It would still be interesting though and a bit useful.

It becomes very unwieldy to start handling multiple, simultaneous haste effects. That's why it took me so long to get the [Dragonspine Trophy] modeled with Quick Shots. If I added another one there would be 8 different shot rotations, which I find beyond ridiculous.

Right now I'm ok with leaving the [Thundering Skyfire Diamond] out.