Hunter Spreadsheets -- In development - Page 50

Cheeky · 09/15/07, 2:42 PM

Originally Posted by QuiggyB

Found something else. It seems when blessing of kings is selected AND rank 2 (67agi) or rank 3 (77agi) GoA is selected the values computed for agility are roughly 2x what they should be. If you set GoA to no and put 67 or 77agi under a custom offhand you get the same result. If you modify the number by 1 up or down the value for agi drops in half again.

e.g. BOK & 77agi custom offhand = 1.06dps per agility. BOK % 78agi = 0.53dps per agility.

I got these results with a 41/20BM build and a 21/40 SV build. I did not get this result with a 5/47/9 MM build. For the BM and SV builds I had 5/5 lethal, 5/5 Eff, 2/2 GFTT, 2/2 rapid, aimed, and 5/5 Mortal. for the MM build I had 5/5 IAotH, the marks tree filled up including 5/5 Imp Arcane, and 9 points in the bottom tier of the surv tree.

I just tried it looking more at the MM talents. I get this 2x result until I put points in combat experience at which point it goes away. I also reset all talents to zero, got the 2X issue, put two points in combat experience and it went away. for whatever reason if I start with a SV or BM build though putting points in CE does not make the issue go away. In all cases having an agi value other than 67 or 77 in combination with BOK does make it go away.

Could you provide more information? Specifically:

1 - What application are you using?
2 - Are you talking about the "+1" valuations? Realize they do no automatically re-generate values unless you change gear. Otherwise you have to click the "CalcAttributes" button on the 'Gear' tab.

Testing this with my gear and build, everything looks normal, same with swapping around to a MM build:
Base: Agi +0.74, AP +0.37, Cirt +0.66, +Hit 0.00
Kings: Agi +0.74, AP +0.38, Cirt +0.66, +Hit 0.00
Kings + GoA (2): Agi +0.75, AP +0.38, Cirt +0.66, +Hit 0.00
Kings + GoA (3): Agi +0.75, AP +0.38, Cirt +0.66, +Hit 0.00
GoA(3): Agi +0.74, AP +0.38, Cirt +0.66, +Hit 0.00

If you would like to email me a copy of the spreadsheet with all your values filled in, contact me via pm for an email address.

Vec · 09/15/07, 3:40 PM

I compared your +1 Attribute numbers to the ones I calculated myself and all the numbers matched except the number for +1 agility. My +1 agility looks to be about 10% higher, which leads me to believe your version isn't using Blessing of Kings, or is it supposed to be a comparison without buffs?

QuiggyB · 09/15/07, 3:49 PM

Originally Posted by Cheeky

Could you provide more information? Specifically:

1 - What application are you using?
2 - Are you talking about the "+1" valuations? Realize they do no automatically re-generate values unless you change gear. Otherwise you have to click the "CalcAttributes" button on the 'Gear' tab.

Im using Excel 2003 SP2 from Office 2003 Professional on Windows XP

Hunter DPS Spreadsheet - Test

In the sheet linked above, I have no talents defined. I have my gear under the gear tab. I have BOK, GOA, LotP, Gift, and Elixir of Greater Agility selected. Dropping LotP does not change the result. Dropping any of the +agility buffs, setting the agility for a custom offhand to +1 or -1, or putting points in combat experience changes the first set of results to the second set of results. I am clicking the calculate button on the gear tab each time.

Kaber · 09/15/07, 4:01 PM

I wonder if a new thread should be made for raid boss armor values. It seems like we have the info spread across all kinds of different class threads, and it would be nice to have input from people that may have already tested them all. I've seen armor values tossed around in this thread, the other hunter ones, some other class ones... I'm sure everyone could use them for theory crafting purposes.

Looney · 09/15/07, 5:36 PM

just a quick question:

when i skill imp hunters mark, do the melees gain all the 440 ap or just the 110 base ap?

Cheeky · 09/15/07, 5:58 PM

Originally Posted by Cranch

I heard a rumor that the Blizzard developers are using your spreadsheet to analyze hunter dps. Maybe you can check if the computer running the spreadsheet is in the blizzard domain and silently degrade dps by 15%...

Bullshit. I can't imagine they would need my spreadsheet, with all it's assumptions and inaccuracies when they can just check their own models. It would be super-cool if this was true, but I ain't buying it. If you have real sources I would love to hear about it. Just when I thought my ego couldn't get any bigger....

Originally Posted by Cranch

I would suggest you add int, haste rating, and armor penetration as well, as they also affect dps (that's what I use in my item rating spreadsheet.)

I can add those in. It's pretty easy now to expand it. I just hope there isn't a real fundamental flaw that QuiggyB has uncovered.

Lactose · 09/15/07, 6:52 PM

Originally Posted by Kaber

I wonder if a new thread should be made for raid boss armor values. It seems like we have the info spread across all kinds of different class threads, and it would be nice to have input from people that may have already tested them all. I've seen armor values tossed around in this thread, the other hunter ones, some other class ones... I'm sure everyone could use them for theory crafting purposes.

I'm planning on doing something like this as soon as I get the chance. I want to test some more boss values before posting anything, since I only have a couple of Karazhan bosses right now.
Yay for forgetting when I have the opportunity.

Originally Posted by Looney

...do the melees gain all the 440 ap or just the 110 base ap?

Just the base 110 AP.

Cheeky · 09/15/07, 7:06 PM

Originally Posted by QuiggyB

Im using Excel 2003 SP2 from Office 2003 Professional on Windows XP

Hunter DPS Spreadsheet - Test

In the sheet linked above, I have no talents defined. I have my gear under the gear tab. I have BOK, GOA, LotP, Gift, and Elixir of Greater Agility selected. Dropping LotP does not change the result. Dropping any of the +agility buffs, setting the agility for a custom offhand to +1 or -1, or putting points in combat experience changes the first set of results to the second set of results. I am clicking the calculate button on the gear tab each time.

I figured it out, I believe. I use a Floor() function on the final attributes of the 'Gear' tab. This is adding some problems, because with everything you set up the first point of Agility added translates to +2 Agility after Kings and Lightning Reflexes, but the second point of agility translates to +3. It adds a stair-step look to the data that shouldn't be there.

In the next version I will remove the floor() function, but change display settings to not show decimal values, even though I'll carry them through the rest of the equations.

Cool problem to find. Maybe I should change the macro to add +10 of each, and then divide the difference by 10? This would suck for hit rating, but I can do it for the others.

QuiggyB · 09/15/07, 8:01 PM

If it was the floor function, why would adding in 1 point on the custom page make it go away? Seems like all the other agility points should have still been scaled wrong. You can also turn off GoA completely and the problem will go away. If you then put exactly 67 or 77 in the custom weapon property for agility it will reappear. Any other value will not cause. Since those two values are the same values rank 2 and 3 GoA provide, I assumed it was some bug in the buff calcs that were looking for those two values specifically.

Cheeky · 09/15/07, 8:07 PM

Originally Posted by QuiggyB

If it was the floor function, why would adding in 1 point on the custom page make it go away? Seems like all the other agility points should have still been scaled wrong. You can also turn off GoA completely and the problem will go away. If you then put exactly 67 or 77 in the custom weapon property for agility it will reappear. Any other value will not cause. Since those two values are the same values rank 2 and 3 GoA provide, I assumed it was some bug in the buff calcs that were looking for those two values specifically.

There are going to be times (because of the floor function) where +1 Agility is seen as +2 through multiplicative buffs and times when it is seen as just +1. This is exactly what you were seeing in the version you hosted. Those times it translates into +2 are going to provide double the DPS gain as when it is +1.

The fix is to carry more specific digits of data through all of the calculations. I'm doing that in the beta version and it seems to address the problem, as well as be more accurate overall.

Keltan · 09/15/07, 8:11 PM

Originally Posted by Cheeky

Cool problem to find. Maybe I should change the macro to add +10 of each, and then divide the difference by 10? This would suck for hit rating, but I can do it for the others.

This is exactly what I was doing by hand prior to ver. 29. Seemed to really help smooth out the value of each stat and minimize the times Lightning Reflexes/Master Marksman/Survival Instincts will be at a point that +1 Agility/AP is enough to change a rounding down to a rounding up and report a value that is more inline with a +2 stat increase, instead of just +1.

QuiggyB · 09/15/07, 8:29 PM

Makes perfect sense, thanks =) For things like hit where +10 could waste points by going over the cap, would it work to just subtract 10 and compare the smaller value against the current value. It would be the same as saying your last point of the stat got you this much dps instead of saying gaining a point would increase it by this much. I think the actual numbers would be the same. Can also just add dps to the end of the x axis on the attribute matrix rather than having two windows. i.e. an agi is worth x ap, crit, hit, int, armor pen, dps.

Bogrum · 09/15/07, 9:15 PM

Might just be that I've messed up my spreadsheet somehow (using Open Office), but when I try to plug Icon of Unyielding Courage into a Trinket slot my DPS values at the top display as "#VALUE!"

Can someone else test this and see if it is a bug?

Cheeky · 09/16/07, 2:17 AM

Originally Posted by Bogrum

Might just be that I've messed up my spreadsheet somehow (using Open Office), but when I try to plug Icon of Unyielding Courage into a Trinket slot my DPS values at the top display as "#VALUE!"

Can someone else test this and see if it is a bug?

It's a bug. Thanks for finding it. When I sober up I'll figure out how to correct it.

Nahiag · 09/16/07, 6:34 AM

Is the Darkmoon card: Crusade (blessings deck) correctly calculated?
I'm thinking about switching from hourglass to crusade but when I switch to crusade in the spreadsheet it looks like it dosen't give anything at all.

(Thank you for this great tool Cheeky and Lactose) <3