Hunter Spreadsheets -- In development - Page 57

Cheeky · 02/07/08, 10:31 PM

Originally Posted by Cors

Any info on this?

It a bug, I'll nerf it down to 10s duration. Will probably cut it's effect pretty drastically.

(for my rotation is drops from 32 AP to 24 AP in effect.)

• Tsook · 02/07/08, 10:34 PM

The confusion might be because both the caster ones ([Band of the Eternal Sage] and [Band of the Eternal Restorer]) are currently bugged to be 15 seconds even though they say 10. To my knowledge, the tank + physical dps ones really are the 10 seconds they say on the tooltip.

alienangel · 02/08/08, 2:12 AM

Hm, thanks for the clarification on independence of roll order, I'm apparently missing something fundamental about it.

Would it be much trouble to add a model for [Icon of Unyielding Courage]? If I average its 600 ArP for 20s over 120s, it comes to an average of 100 ArP passive I think. This puts it above [Hourglass of the Unraveller] for me, and close to Ashtongue. I suppose this is just a convenience request so I don't have to keep editing in a custom passive ArP value. It seems a pretty good trinket which non-hit capped people like me have left in their banks for months since it's (afaik) not modelled on your spreadsheet

Also, somewhere between .39 and .42 I seem to have lost the table on the Settings Tab that used to show equivalences for various stats in terms of each other. Is there somewhere on the XLS I can find this again? I realize you not have a table for stat<->dps equivalence, but I liked having the other was well, especially for updating pawn/thottbot scales.

Flouyd · 02/08/08, 7:12 AM

I have 1 question. On the "Settings and Results" Tab I see several saved profiles. But I can’t figure out how to save my own profile. All I managed to do is changed the name of the existent ones

(I'm using excel 2002)

Thorongil · 02/08/08, 7:39 AM

Originally Posted by Flouyd

I have 1 question. On the "Settings and Results" Tab I see several saved profiles. But I can’t figure out how to save my own profile. All I managed to do is changed the name of the existent ones

(I'm using excel 2002)

This is done in the "Gear"-Tab. Just above the head-slot you have a drop-down-list where you can select the profiles. You´ve also got the load/save-cells in this tab.

Cheeky · 02/08/08, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by alienangel

Hm, thanks for the clarification on independence of roll order, I'm apparently missing something fundamental about it.

Would it be much trouble to add a model for [Icon of Unyielding Courage]? If I average its 600 ArP for 20s over 120s, it comes to an average of 100 ArP passive I think. This puts it above [Hourglass of the Unraveller] for me, and close to Ashtongue. I suppose this is just a convenience request so I don't have to keep editing in a custom passive ArP value. It seems a pretty good trinket which non-hit capped people like me have left in their banks for months since it's (afaik) not modelled on your spreadsheet

I'll see what I can do. Because Armor Penetration isn't linear, you actually see a better benefit having 600 ArmPen for 20/120 seconds than you would a constant 100 ArmPen.

Originally Posted by alienangel

Also, somewhere between .39 and .42 I seem to have lost the table on the Settings Tab that used to show equivalences for various stats in terms of each other. Is there somewhere on the XLS I can find this again? I realize you not have a table for stat<->dps equivalence, but I liked having the other was well, especially for updating pawn/thottbot scales.

I found that matrix too clunky, so I removed it and provided the item budget ratios instead.

cigs · 02/08/08, 12:48 PM

I'm use V42 of the spreadsheet Cheeky (Thanks for this wonderful tool)
I'm trying to make sense of the Attribute value on the "Settings and results" tab.

I assumed it was a 1 Ap = x Dps tool, for your build, so that these numbers can be used for quick comparisons in game.

However, currently my AP + 1 value = 0.325 DPS

If i simply add 100AP to my gear in the manual section, i get an increase of around 25 DPS, which would make my AP + 1 = 0.25. Whats the problem, me or the sheet?

I get similar (wrong) results for the other + 1 Attributes.

Cheeky · 02/08/08, 1:22 PM

Originally Posted by cigs

I'm use V42 of the spreadsheet Cheeky (Thanks for this wonderful tool)
I'm trying to make sense of the Attribute value on the "Settings and results" tab.

I assumed it was a 1 Ap = x Dps tool, for your build, so that these numbers can be used for quick comparisons in game.

However, currently my AP + 1 value = 0.325 DPS

If i simply add 100AP to my gear in the manual section, i get an increase of around 25 DPS, which would make my AP + 1 = 0.25. Whats the problem, me or the sheet?

I get similar (wrong) results for the other + 1 Attributes.

If you have changed rotations, buffs, pets, or talents you need to hit the "CalcAttributes" button on the 'Gear' tab to recompute. It only automatically updates if you switch gear (not including Armory import.)

There is also no guarantee the attributes scale linearly (although I would think AP would come the closest.)

cigs · 02/08/08, 1:37 PM

If you have changed rotations, buffs, pets, or talents you need to hit the "CalcAttributes" button on the 'Gear' tab to recompute. It only automatically updates if you switch gear (not including Armory import.)

That's exactly what you have to do!!!!!! Thanks Cheeky, that's been bugging me for a while.

Korinth · 02/08/08, 2:03 PM

Cheeky,

Trying to add an Inscribed Noble Topaz (Orange, 4 Str, 4 Crit) to a red socket on my legs and it's not in the list of gems.

Thanks.

Azulor · 02/08/08, 2:36 PM

Originally Posted by Korinth

Cheeky,

Trying to add an Inscribed Noble Topaz (Orange, 4 Str, 4 Crit) to a red socket on my legs and it's not in the list of gems.

Thanks.

Why would you add a str gem?

Korinth · 02/08/08, 2:47 PM

Pretty sure I wanted the crit and it's a red socket.

Glaurong · 02/08/08, 2:54 PM

A bit of information on the hidden auto cast time. I had a [Precisely Calibrated Boomstick] hanging around and I picked up an abacus in last night's daily heroic so I decided to run a little test.

I stacked the following hastes:

Serpents Swiftness
Quiver
Quick Shots
Haste Potion
Drums of Battle
Abacus of Violent Odds
Rapid Fire
Bloodlust
7.55% haste from gear

I was able to get my attack speed down to 0.38 seconds and this is the pertinent part of my combat log:

2/8 10:33:50.831  You gain Quick Shots.
2/8 10:33:51.514  Your Auto Shot crits Dr. Boom for 450.
2/8 10:33:52.213  You gain Haste.
2/8 10:33:52.519  You gain Drums of Battle.
2/8 10:33:52.519  You gain Haste.
2/8 10:33:52.519  You gain Rapid Fire.
2/8 10:33:52.526  Your Auto Shot hits Dr. Boom for 190.
2/8 10:33:53.159  Your Auto Shot crits Dr. Boom for 455.
2/8 10:33:53.741  Your Auto Shot hits Dr. Boom for 190.
2/8 10:33:54.050  Your Auto Shot hits Dr. Boom for 189.
2/8 10:33:54.592  Your Auto Shot hits Dr. Boom for 187.
2/8 10:33:55.131  Your Auto Shot hits Dr. Boom for 188.
2/8 10:33:55.193  You gain Bloodlust.
2/8 10:33:55.481  Your Auto Shot hits Dr. Boom for 190.
2/8 10:33:55.998  Your Auto Shot crits Dr. Boom for 449.
2/8 10:33:56.236  Your Auto Shot hits Dr. Boom for 187.
2/8 10:33:56.535  Your Auto Shot crits Dr. Boom for 444.
2/8 10:33:56.838  Your Auto Shot hits Dr. Boom for 191.
2/8 10:33:57.227  Your Auto Shot hits Dr. Boom for 188.
2/8 10:33:57.674  Your Auto Shot hits Dr. Boom for 187.
2/8 10:33:57.960  Your Auto Shot hits Dr. Boom for 191.
2/8 10:33:58.436  Your Auto Shot crits Dr. Boom for 454.
2/8 10:33:58.661  Your Auto Shot crits Dr. Boom for 447.
2/8 10:33:58.908  Your Auto Shot crits Dr. Boom for 444.
2/8 10:33:59.424  Your Auto Shot crits Dr. Boom for 443.
2/8 10:33:59.679  Your Auto Shot hits Dr. Boom for 191.
2/8 10:34:00.162  Your Auto Shot hits Dr. Boom for 188.
2/8 10:34:00.446  Your Auto Shot hits Dr. Boom for 191.
2/8 10:34:00.686  Your Auto Shot hits Dr. Boom for 189.
2/8 10:34:01.131  Your Auto Shot hits Dr. Boom for 191.
2/8 10:34:01.399  Your Auto Shot hits Dr. Boom for 189.
2/8 10:34:01.708  Your Auto Shot hits Dr. Boom for 187.
2/8 10:34:02.151  Your Auto Shot hits Dr. Boom for 191.
2/8 10:34:02.401  Your Auto Shot crits Dr. Boom for 336. (49 blocked)
2/8 10:34:02.461  Haste fades from you.

For the 20 shots where I was under the full effect of the haste, these are the results:

Average time between auto shots: 337 ms
Minimum time between auto shots: 225 ms
Maximum time between auto shots: 516 ms

There is latency jitter in the log of course so not much should be read into the fact that the average is below .38 and the minimum is .225. I'm not actually sure what this means for (what we think is) a 0.5s hidden cast time on the server. I am leaning more towards it being something controlled on the client and relating more towards animation than anything else.

Cheeky · 02/08/08, 2:54 PM

Originally Posted by Korinth

Pretty sure I wanted the crit and it's a red socket.

+8 Agility is red and gives you more crit% than just 4 crit rating. (You also get a "free" 8 AP.)

Korinth · 02/08/08, 2:56 PM

Thanks Cheeky...that's the type of comparison I'm trying to work out.

Grondarg · 02/08/08, 3:13 PM

Originally Posted by Cheeky

Hmmm. MY home version of Excel (where I've done 90+% of the development) is Microsoft Excel 2002 (10.6834.6830) SP3. Everything works in that version. When I first converted from Open Office to Excel a year ago I used my work version which might have been 2004, I'm not entirely sure.

Anyone with more experience with Excel (or better yet, a Microsoft Developer) able to shed additional light on this?

Sounds like he has macro security enabled honestly. I've used your spreadsheet in 2007 with no problems.

Kyuki · 02/08/08, 3:25 PM

Originally Posted by Glaurong

A bit of information on the hidden auto cast time....

This is interesting stuff really... Thanks for doing the tests.

◊ Sarutobi · 02/08/08, 3:27 PM

Originally Posted by Quarath

Would it be possible to add one more list to the spreadsheet which would show table similar to Shadowpanthers rogue armor chart (http://shadowpanther.net/armor.htm)?
It should be pretty easy considering you got all items in the sheet already...it would be even better then then the Shadowpanthers one, because you can sort the armor chart (based on the "weigth" of each attribute) each time you change gear.

There is already a tool available which will do this for you. All you have to do is take the relative DPS of adding 1 of each stat from the table on the top of the results tab and plug them in at Lootrank, and it will display a list of the top items available for you in each slot based on those stat weightings. One other nice thing it does for you, is it will also show you the optimal way to socket the item (not taking into account metas) and lets you know whether it would be more beneficial for you to get the socket bonus, or break it.

Originally Posted by Cheeky

I found that matrix too clunky, so I removed it and provided the item budget ratios instead.

Just wanted to thank you for making that change. I liked the matrix when you had it there, and it took me a minute to realize that this had replaced it, but the way you have it displayed now is great. It's nice to be able to plug in those numbers for an item, be able to look at them side by side, and say that one item would be a 2.39 DPS upgrade over the other.

The work you, and the other contributors to the spreadsheet, put in is very much appreciated.

• Intermission · 02/09/08, 2:37 AM

[Timeless Arrow] + [Bristleblitz Striker] = 148.8 dps

= 148.7 dps

I forget exactly how ammo effects each individual shot (steady/auto/multi/arcane). Could anyone post the equations if they know them off the top of their head? Would be useful for all of us who forget those things :P

edit for clarity: the legendary bow does not use ammo. MMO Champion 2.4 News

Erlen · 02/09/08, 5:09 AM

Originally Posted by Intermission

I forget exactly how ammo effects each individual shot (steady/auto/multi/arcane). Could anyone post the equations if they know them off the top of their head? Would be useful for all of us who forget those things :P

Steady Shot's and Arcane Shot's damage is not affected by ammo. The formulas, last I read are these:

Auto Shot
(Weapon Damage + (Attack Power/14) + Ammo Boost) * Bow Speed

Multi-Shot
(Weapon Damage + (Attack Power/14) + Ammo Boost) * 2.8 + Rank Bonus

Steady Shot (Not Dazed)
(Weapon Damage/Speed*2.8) + (0.2*AP) + 150

Arcane Shot
(0.15*Attack Power) + Rank Bonus

For Multi-Shot, max rank (6) bonus is 205.
For Arcane Shot, max rank (9) bonus is 273.

Alumatine · 02/09/08, 5:59 AM

Question for cheeky.

I'm doing some more detailed work on EW calculations. Do you have a link to the hit % work you did with the 2 roll system? would come in handy.

Cheers cheeky,
Alu.

peterk0 · 02/09/08, 6:33 AM

Originally Posted by Intermission

[Timeless Arrow] + [Bristleblitz Striker] = 148.8 dps

= 148.7 dps

I forget exactly how ammo effects each individual shot (steady/auto/multi/arcane). Could anyone post the equations if they know them off the top of their head? Would be useful for all of us who forget those things :P

edit for clarity: the legendary bow does not use ammo. MMO Champion 2.4 News

Well, if you look at the Stready Shot tootlip (Steady Shot -- A steady shot that causes base weapon damage plus [RAP * 0.2 + 150]. Causes an additional 175 against Dazed targets.), you can see it's a major boost

Thorongil · 02/09/08, 6:58 AM

Does anyone know whether it is possible to use normal arrows with the bow? It doesn´t really indicate you can´t use your own arrows. Of course, the difference would probably be too big if you could.

Talyx · 02/09/08, 7:15 AM

So since auto shot damage will remain relatively the same if you were to use a Bristleblitz + timeless arrows, I'm guessing if you were lucky enough to get this weapon a multi/arcane 1:1 priority shot rotation would be even more worthless.

Midnight · 02/09/08, 10:39 AM

As promised earlier this thread I did some tests with the new supposedly 3:2 shot rotation macro.

Used testing procedure:

I bought 1000 arrows/bullets to limit every test to exactly 1000 shots. I then used my G15 Keyboard to spam the testmacro in 0,05s intervals shooting at Dr. Boom until either
a) I was oom in which case I stopped shooting before any delay due to a lack of mana would occur or
b) Dr. Boom died
I repeated this until I run out of ammo. I run those tests with 2 diffrent specs, 2 diffrent weapons, with and without quiver haste for a total of 8 diffrent attack speeds.

The used macro:

Testmacro:

/cast !Auto Shot
/cast Steady Shot

Evaluation of the tests:

I wrote a little script to parse the combatlog. The script only accounts for autos or steadys shot within a 5s timeframe for the min/max/avrg calculation. Here are the results for evaluation.

Test #1 - 3,0s Weapon, no quiverhaste, no SS talent - 3,00s actual attack speed.
Number of Auto Shots fired: 23
Number of Steady Shots fired: 976
Total number of shots fired: 999

Auto Shot delay: N/A
Steady Shot delay (min/max/avrg): (1,375s/2,422s/1,550s)
General Shot delay (min/max/avrg): (0.484s/2.422s/1.515s)

Link to the combat log: click me!

Test #2 - 3,0s Weapon, 15% quiverhaste, no SS talent - 2,61s actual attack speed.
Number of Auto Shots fired: 322
Number of Steay Shots fired: 677
Total number of shots fired: 999

Auto Shot delay (min/max/avrg): (2,625s/4,610s/3,187s)
Steady Shot delay (min/max/avrg): (1,203s/2,000s/1,541s)
General Shot delay (min/max/avrg): (0.312s/1.766s/1.043s)

Link to the combat log: click me!

Test #3 - 3,0s Weapon, no quiverhaste, 5/5 SS talent - 2,50s actual attack speed.
Number of Auto Shots fired: 331
Number of Steay Shots fired: 669
Total number of shots fired: 1000

Auto Shot delay (min/max/avrg): (2,672s/4,343s/3,090s)
Steady Shot delay (min/max/avrg): (1,187s/1,937s/1,540s)
General Shot delay (min/max/avrg): (0.359s/1.578s/1.030s)

Link to the combat log: click me!

Test #4 - 3,0s Weapon, 15% quiverhaste, 5/5 SS talent - 2,17s actual attack speed.
Number of Auto Shots fired: 331
Number of Steay Shots fired: 669
Total number of shots fired: 1000

Auto Shot delay (min/max/avrg): (2,000s/4,813s/3,119s)
Steady Shot delay (min/max/avrg): (1,094s/2,110s/1,537s)
General Shot delay (min/max/avrg): (0.265s/1.687s/1.031s)

Link to the combat log: click me!

Test #5 - 2,6s Weapon, no quiverhaste, no SS talent - 2,60s actual attack speed.
Number of Auto Shots fired: 30
Number of Steay Shots fired: 970
Total number of shots fired: 1000

Auto Shot delay (min/max/avrg): N/A
Steady Shot delay (min/max/avrg): (1,312s/2,063s/1,552s)
General Shot delay (min/max/avrg): (0.438s/1.984s/1.506s)

Link to the combat log: click me!

Test #6 - 2,6s Weapon, 15% quiverhaste, no SS talent - 2,26s actual attack speed.
Number of Auto Shots fired: 331
Number of Steay Shots fired: 669
Total number of shots fired: 1000

Auto Shot delay (min/max/avrg): (2,922s/4,672s/3,216s)
Steady Shot delay (min/max/avrg): (1,063s/2,000s/1,545s)
General Shot delay (min/max/avrg): (0.344s/1.625s/1.044s)

Link to the combat log: click me!

Test #7 - 2,6s Weapon, no quiverhaste, 5/5 SS talent - 2,17s actual attack speed.
Number of Auto Shots fired: 331
Number of Steay Shots fired: 666
Total number of shots fired: 997

Auto Shot delay (min/max/avrg): (2,875s/4,453s/3,092s)
Steady Shot delay (min/max/avrg): (1,203s/1,844s/1,542s)
General Shot delay (min/max/avrg): (0.297s/1.641s/1.027s)

Link to the combat log: click me!

Test #8 - 2,6s Weapon, 15% quiverhaste, 5/5 SS talent - 1,88s actual attack speed.
Number of Auto Shots fired: 405
Number of Steay Shots fired: 594
Total number of shots fired: 999

Auto Shot delay (min/max/avrg): (0,078s/4,625s/2,275s)
Steady Shot delay (min/max/avrg): (1,031s/2,219s/1,541s)
General Shot delay (min/max/avrg): (0.031s/2.188s/0.919s)

Link to the combat log: click me!

A few conclusions that jump to my mind:

- For the macro to be spammable the GCD needs to be longer than the actual steady shot casttime (e.g. you need at least quiverhaste) so the auto shot gets some leeway to be cast. This should be a non-issue for any hunter.
- Five of the eight test series produced an almost perfect 3:2 rotation and a near perfect 1,5s average steady delay too. Depending on haste Auto shot is clipped between about 0,4s and 1,0s on those rotations though.
- Haste doesn´t seem to have much of an impact on those 3:2 rotations. The average overall shot throughput is almost the same for all of them with faster attack speeds just clipping auto shot more than slow weapons. This favors slow weapons over fast ones for absolute damage.