You don't really. If you have a macro and know what kind of shot rotation it generates, you can enter that rotation in the sheet and see what DPS it does, or see if one of the rotations generated when you click the buttons on the shot rotation sheets matches the one from your macro.

The http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t13107-h...n_illustrated/ thread and the [Hunter] Help Me... thread both spend a lot of time discussing different macros, you poking around one of them will likely help you find a macro that generates a rotation you like. But there's no deterministic way to take a rotation out of the spreadsheet and generate a macro for it.

exactly. I had a hunter in the guild who didn't have the cash for DM:Crusade and wanted to know how well that would do with her Bloodlust.

Well 230 AP for 20s every 45s is 102 AP average if my napkin math is right. So on the custom gear line in the spreadsheet, enter 102 AP, and set the trinket slot you'd put it in to None, and you have I think a decent model for it (assuming it procs immediately once the cooldown is up).

Read through all the posts. Every letter of the password is contained in them, in one post or another.

The mana regen displayed seemed a little low, so I looked around in the calculations tab and found the source of the problem - cell E26 (buffs) is not being included.

In version 46 the "modifier" column of the default target debuffs list is messed up, I think because of the addition of Judgement of the Crusader. Curse of Shadows shows "200" and Expose Weakness shows "Improved 3/3," while Faerie Fire's modifier column is blank. I guess they can all be fixed manually so it's not a big deal.

"Cheeky's Raid" and "Cheeky's Arena" sets set Improved Hunter's Mark Modifier column to "1" rather than anything valid.

I also think the default value for Curse of Shadows and Faerie Fire should be set to None -- that would stop people from turning on faerie fire and then posting here about why their hit rate is too high. And many (most?) raids don't have a moonkin or malediction warlock.

Two questions about PPM in the spreadsheet:

1. Based on Aldriana's posts in Roguecraft 101 and other threads, and some posts in warrior threads, apparently the PPM on [Madness of the Betrayer] is 1, however our spreadsheet lists it as 1.5 (and I don't see any fields I can edit to change it). Is it supposed to be a different PPM for ranged attacks?

2. Based on http://elitistjerks.com/f40/t15553-p...chanics_haste/ and again some other melee threads, the % chance to hit on autoattacks for a PPM trinket is based on your hasted weapon speed, not your base weapon speed. But using a 3.0 weapon, and the supposed 1.5 PPM for Madness, the spreadsheet's calculation tab claims a proc chance per attack of 7.5%, which is what you'd get if you were using the unhasted 3.0 speed for chance per hit, instead of my hasted speed of 2.14 (SS + 25 haste rating), which would give a 5.35% proc chance per hit (on autoattacks). The 7.5% chance would only apply to my specials. So is the % chance to proc listed for madness on the calculations tab supposed to only be for specials, or is it being used to calculate all attacks?

Tunic of the Ranger Lord is set to 812 armor while it's real value is 879.

What's the password for exactly? I don't know much about Excel passwords. Does it protect the formatting/formula of cells so people cant accidentally stuff it up and have to re-download, or does the password protect your intellectual property by hiding the formulae you used?

I can reduce the PPM number to 1.0, and calculate based on hasted weapon speed, but I'm not sure how the math handles normal + specials. We run a higher ratio of base:special attacks than any other physical DPS dealer.

I include macros in the spreadsheet. Macros can, in reality, do just about anything. This includes malicious code that damages your files, etc. By locking the spreadsheet I hope to minimize the effects of that. I'm also a super control freak, and proud of the effort I've gone to in making the spreadsheet. I know locking a spreadsheet in Excel is probably the worst form of protection possible, but I do it anyway.

If you select Vanir's Right Fist of Brutality in the Main Hand slot I get a run-time error. The socket #3 label (cell A12) has also changed to "N\ Socket 3"

D'oh... nevermind. :-P

I am by no means anything near proficient in modelling this kind of thing, but reading the melee thread, it think it just means that your chance to proc on an instant is different from your chance to proc on an auto. For the special the % chance to proc is just the same as how the spreadsheet has it now, 1.5 / (60 /3.0) = 7.5%. But for autos its uses the hasted attack speed in the calculation, and this is updated every time your haste changes (RF, bloodlust, quickshots, dst). So 1.5 / (60 / 2.14) = 5.35% with SS and some passive haste on the same 3.0 weapon.

So if your current model of Madness (and for that matter DST and other PPM effects) uses the same chance to proc on both specials and attacks, the model would need to be changed to use one (constant) chance to proc for specials, and a different (varying) one for autos.

This all came about when I was wondering why the rogue spreadsheets seem to value Madness a lot lower than ours when they attack faster than we, and our spreadsheet was claiming a 57% uptime on the proc for me (which I don't think I'm getting )

All the melee testing seems to refer to instants btw, not specials, but I'd hope steadyshot would count as the same type of attack for proc mechanics as sinister strike.

Well, if we're trying to just estimate the number of procs per minute, yeah 1.5 might work, since the 1 PPM on autos combined with slightly higher chance to proc per special probably push the observed number of procs per minute back up to around 1.5. But since the spreadsheet tries to model stuff instead of just estimating it would be cool to do it here too

I donno if this has been asked for before but I would like to see how a 2:1 rotation compares to the others for a MM or Surv hunters.

You guys have done some crazy work on this spreadsheet ^_^

Plug the rotation in and see what it says. And, thanks.

Been wondering about the "Shot Statistics" section of the Settings and Results page.

Everything on this page takes into account the target mobs armor (including sunder armor stacks, and armor pen.) except for the 4 shots in the "Shot Statistics" section. Note that Kill Command, also in this same section does take into acccount targets armor.

It's just a bit weird looking at that as I'm informed that my multi-shot does 1800 damage and my Arcane only 1100. When armor is factored in multi-shot actually does <1100. This makes all the damage per mana and % calcs incorrect as well.

It would be more useful in my humble opinion if these shot damage values showded the damage against the current target, and not damage against a target with 0 armor as they currently do.

Also, just bumping this:

Don't bump stuff, especially not stuff that's already been added to the bug list.


It has.


This goes to people sending PMs or reporting missing items, incorrect stuff, etc:
Please check the bug list (found in post #3, page 1) before filing a report!

This makes updating much easier.

Since it's not listed in the bug list, is the apparently incorrect modeling of [Madness of the Betrayer] (and other PPM effects?) mentioned earlier not considered a bug? Since the current model tends to predict it and DST being best-in-slot items, getting slightly better models of them (if possible at all, I understand it maybe be a lot of work reworking the DST model to consider constantly varying proc chances) would be valuable imo.

Sorry, thought I had included that already.

I'm kind of at a standstill on how to change the model. I'm thinking of just going with a straight uptime based on the PPM values, but I'm not satisfied with a couple of details:

1 - How special shot frequency affects things, especially items without internal cool downs.
2 - How to account for clipping issues in determining shot frequency as hasted or unhasted. (This is especially troubling with the 3:2 macro where Auto Shots do not fire at the listed character sheet frequency.)

Also, do we have reliable PPM numbers for all the trinkets?

From: Proc Mechanics
There's a lot of good discussion of the effect of haste on ppm here: http://elitistjerks.com/f40/t15553-p...chanics_haste/

My current understanding is that haste effects reduce your chance to proc in order to maintain the same ppm from autos -- however, this reduction also carries over to any specials/instants you use while under haste. That means when Quick Shots procs it makes it less likely that DST (or whatever) will proc off any specials you use while under the effects, reducing your total number of procs (though the procs from autos remains constant).

To be mostly correct you could probably calculate the ppm for each of the different shot rotation tabs since they're all under different amounts of haste and then use the uptime % you already have to come to a weighted average proc %. I'm not sure how far off that would be, though -- obviously your shots fired in the 10% of the time you have DST and Quick Shots both active is going to be more than 10% of your total shots fired.

That's not my understanding from the threads I linked above - while haste effects reduce your per hit chance to proc, this reduction is not carried over to your specials, which continue to use your base unhasted weapon speed for their per hit chance to proc.

I don't envy you trying to model this Cheeky :S If you're really stumped, perhaps looking at how the rogue sheets do it might give you some ideas? I know they have two independently developed dps spreadsheets, and one of the person who seems to be the most involved with studying proc mechanics is the author of one of the sheets, so it presumably has a decent model in it.

Using the listed PPM would be misleading, since it would both underestimate it (due to specials), and also not take into account the difference in proc rates due to different frequency of special use (kinda like fixed chance trinkets like ashtongue bias towards 3:2 rotations).