Meursault

I only have OpenOffice which I hate and is difficult to use well, and I didn't feel like digging through your code, but...

how exactly do you model shots under a 3:2? Do you force the user to use a 3:2 exactly, or do you go by the actual shots/time of macrospam using the /cast !Auto Shot /cast Steady Shot. I only ask because (as I'm sure you know) as haste increases macrospam quickly becomes a 5:4 macro and approaches 1:1 as auto shot speed approaches 1.5.

 

Indora

@Meursault
At the moment it's a perfect 3:2 rotation, unlike the most player sees ingame, using their macros.
But Kamma provided an algorithm for calculating the steady:auto ratio.

More details under:
Beast Mastery Bible

There are still mistakes..
-Auto Shot cast time is missing.
-GCD isn't delayed by latency.

I didn't have the time to fix them since two weeks now. -.-

 

Meursault

I ask because I recently did some similar work to post a guide on the WoW forums, although I'm pretty sure I didn't make it accessible enough to the average forum-goer, so it'll fall through the forums in a day. The closed form for the actual shot rotation is actually quite simple, and the values look a lot like the work Kamma did.

Here's the napkin math, with useless events cut out since you won't need them. I calculated these with an "infinite" spam speed, adding an expected delay of spam speed/2 keeps it simple and approximates well, but isn't quite as pure as I like.

Time~Event
0 ~ Initial Steady and Auto begin casting ("A0")
.5~ Nil Auto releases. For the remainder of this section, "An" refers to the time of the beginning casting of an auto shot, it will always release .5 seconds later in the middle of the subsequent Steady channel.
1.5 ~ Second Steady begins casting
1.5+1.5/H ~"A1" time of starting casting of first auto shot
A1+B/H ~ "A2", second Auto begins casting
3.0-A1-B/H ~ "S2", or the spillover GCD time from the second steady.
A2+B/H ~ "A3"=1.5+1.5/H+B/H
4.5-A2-B/H ~ "S3"=4.5-1.5/H-2B/H
A3+B/H ~ "A4"=1.5+1.5/H+2B/H
6.0-1.5/H-3B/H ~ "S4"

It's easy enough from here to see the function for the "spillover" of GCD time, or
"Sn"=1.5n-1.5/H-(n-1)B/H

I'm sure you can recreate this easily enough, as this isn't a very good formatting to view it in, as I don't have any suitable software on this computer.

Post on WoW forums

edit: 4/14 I realize the naming of variables is a bit confusing as it's written, I'll clean it. The timings are not wrong, although I had a propogated sign error in the final result. See my next post

 

Indora

I'm sorry I doesn't have the time to look through your whole post, but

seems wrong.

The GCD can start while your autoshot is casting. Thus the second steady can start earlier.

 

Makata

Can anyone tell me how to factor in Vampiric Touch, Bloodlust, Haste pots and the Righteous Weapon Coating into the dps calculations?

 

Guran

v47 incorrectly references the armor pen proc on [Madness of the Betrayer]. It's calculating the benefit based on the new proc rate correctly but doesn't apply it to the armor pen 'On-Proc Penetration' cell in the calculations.

 

Meursault

The GCD is starting at 0 when the auto shot is casting. The auto shot fires at .5, the GCD ends at 1.5.

Verbose version. The ________ lines bracket the interesting portions, or where a steady fires, an auto begins to fire while still on GCD, the GCD clears, and then that auto shot fires.
________
0 ~ Initial Steady and Auto begin casting ("A0")
.5 ~ Nil Auto releases. For the remainder of this section, "An" refers to the time of the beginning casting of an auto shot, it will always release .5 seconds later in the middle of the subsequent Steady channel.
________
1.5/H ~ Steady 0 fires
1.5 ~ Steady 1 begins casting
________
1.5+1.5/H ~"A(1)" time of starting casting of Auto 1, steady 1 fires.
3.0 ~ Steady 2 begins
A1+.5 ~ Auto 1 fires
________ 3.0-A(1) ~ "X1"=1.5-1.5/H, or the excess GCD time when Auto 1 is casting and Steady 1 is still on GCD

3.0+1.5/H ~ Steady 2 Fires
A1+B/H ~ "A(2)"=1.5+1.5/H+B/H, Auto 2 begins casting
4.5 ~ Steady 3 Begins
A2+.5 ~ Auto 2 fires
________ 4.5-A(2) = 3.0-1.5/H-B/H ~ "X(2)", or the excess GCD time from Auto 2 and Steady 2.

4.5+1.5/H ~ Steady 3 Fires
A2+B/H ~ "A(3)"=1.5+1.5/H+2B/H
6.0 ~ Steady 4 begins
A3+.5 ~ Auto 3 fires
_________6.0-A(3) ~ "X(3)"=4.5-1.5/H-2B/H

6.0+1/H~ Steady 4 Fires
A3+B/H ~ "A(4)"=1.5+1.5/H+3B/H
7.5 ~ Steady 5 begins
A4+.5~ Auto 4 fires
_________6.0-1.5/H-3B/H ~ "X(4)"

The recursive formula for A(n+1)=A(n)+B/H=1.5+1.5/H+(n-1)B/H

Note that X(n)=1.5(n+1)-A(n)=1.5n-1.5/H-(n-1)B/H

We're interested in the event that Steady n+1 is able to begin before event A(n), clipping that auto shot. As the start time for Steady n+1 is 1.5(n+1), we're interested in the first n at which

1.5(n+1)<1.5+1.5/H+(n-1)B/H

or X(n)<0. So we have

0>1.5n-1.5/H-(n-1)B/H, or

n>(2B-3)/(2B-3H). Round down to find the number of autos per cycle, add one for the steadies. (This makes the formula for steadies [3H-3]/[2B-3H])

If you want to approximate for spam speed, simply say that each Steady shot will be delayed by nL, where L is the average user delay per steady... probably easiest to estimate it at spam speed/2. This would set

0>(1.5+L)n-1.5/H-(n-1)B/H, or

n>(2B-3)/(2B-[3+2L]H)

 

RSkillz

I was just playing around with your spreadsheet and switching some of the pets to see the dps results.
Is the Scorpids DPS really that high or is it incorrect/bugged? Here's a list with my results: (using .47 version)

- Scorpid, trained max claw&scorpid poison, added in sheet as primary: scorpid poison, secondary: claw, DPS: 74,11(!)
- Cat, trained max claw&bite, added in sheet as primary: bite, secondary: claw, DPS: 53,46
- Ravager, trained max bite&gore, added in sheet as primary: bite, secondary, gore, DPS: 58,73.

This is all with "Happy" happiness.

Edit: I also added a Wind Serpent for fun and thats even higher:
- Wind Serpent, trained max bite&LB, added in sheet as primary: bite, secondary: LB, DPS: 93,48(!!)

I always thought Cats/Ravagers were the best DPS pets? (I have Humar right now)

 

Bobpaulson

Sorry if this has already been brought up, I didn't see it in the bug post.

I'm currently using Netherbane main hand and Breeching Comet off hand.

When i tried to enter my off hand in the spreadsheet i only got 3 options in the drop down list: Adamantite dagger, Akil'zon's talon blade and Akuno's blade.

In a previous version of the spreadsheet I was able to bring up duel wielding Netherbanes, not sure what has changed.

Also, I'm using a mac, so virtual basic stuff doesn't work, if that is my problem, but all the other drop down list seem to work; so I didn't think that was related.

(yes i know my grammar is probably wrong, tried to get the spelling right :P)

 

KraxisSingular

Well, Cats and Ravager (and Raptors for that matter) are all the classical DPS pets. You can't go wrong with them.
But there are circumstances where a Wind Serpent is advantagerous, and that is when your crit begins to grow to give it enough focus for LB (drop Bite). However, just because it looks like the Wind Serpent does more special damage doe not mean that is actually does more damage overall. Remember that the three earlier pets all have a 10% damage modifier while the Wind Serpent only has 7%. Those 3% are what is keeping the pack tight. But Wind Serpents should out-DPS the others with enough crits (and no special resistances on the boss).
The Scorpid however needs a million AP from the Hunter to become really competitive, the reason is that it needs Scorpid Poison to tick for the most possible to make up for it's negative DPS modifier (-6%). I still haven't seen any Scorpid making up for it.

Now that that is settled, I actually have some things for the spreadsheet, this is all considering a Wind Serpent.

Why aren't there any pet buffs for Wrath of Air totem and Totem of Wrath. Both totems would benefit a Wind Serpent, and as far as I can tell when I have had it happen, it actually does benefit. Wrath of Air adds almost 50% again as much spelldam as the Wind Serpent normally has from our AP. Totem of Wrath I don't know, but it certainly looks like I see more LB crits.
We can't always get into that awesome melee group for some nice Enhancement totems, sometimes some of us are raid gypsies, put whereever we do some good. And that often includes a Resto or Elemental Shaman that would rather buff the other three casters than the single Hunter (no argument there).

 

KraxisSingular

Back with more interesting observations.

Basically last I checked my 'time to OOM' was pre-patch, but not really any difference gearwise, other than going Don Santos to the Chicken-on-a-stick. But apparently my time to OOM has decreased markedly. While it certainly fits my experience, I don't understand it since everybody has said the Spirit change should have done nothing to my raid Mp5.

Pre-patch time to OOM: around 120
Post patch time to OOM: 95

Does the spreadsheet calculate the spiritbased regen in combat too or something? Or is it just that much keener at finding the real regen values compared to us? In any case I find that time to OOM horrible and quite fitting to my current situation.

Even noticed that Mark of Conquest is hardly any DPS loss, so I might just as well keep it on at all times.

 

Noobiisa

Just a suggestion for future versions of the spreadsheet.

Maybe include under buff section Ret pally's aura (2% dmg, think is Imp Sanc aura) and also multiple FI from pets (not yours obv if BM or just FI as Surv/MM) cause hunters are grouped with each ohter alot of time and can buff each other like this.

That is it, keep up the good work Cheeky, really finding the spreadsheet my goto before i ninja loot from a rogue and can justify my actions :P

 

Khassandra

Just an fyi, when I load my armory, it says Blade of the Harbinger isn't a supported item, but when I check the dropdown box, its listed.

 

Juggernaught

When loading Restore Mana Prime chest enchant from armory the following error occurs:
"+6 mana every 5 sec. is not a supported Chest enchant."

Also noticed that the 3:2 shot rotation is shown as 1:1.5 on the Settings and Results sheet (Range J1:J20)

 

• Praxx

In the spread sheet it is listed as The Blade of the Harbingers. The actual item name is [The Blade of Harbingers].

 

Wensleydale

Thank you for the excellent spreadsheet.

I noticed that when I start adding large amounts of Agility into the blue "hand adjust" row of the gear section, the value of each point of Agility and Crit rating on the Settings and Results tab starts to go down drastically. My total agility is 595, so adding 205 by hand brings me to 800 which is about where the +1 values start to inflect. The same sort of thing happens if I use a custom ring with hundreds of Agility.

I've tested this in both v46 and v47 of the Excel spreadsheet. Can someone explain to me what is going on?

(Edit: problem solved, it was the focus regen from GFTT going past what my pet could use.)

 

alienangel

As long as their value isn't becoming negative, this is expected behaviour I believe.

As you gain agility, your AP and crit rate increase. As your crit rate gets high you'll generally find it less and less useful to add more. The extreme cases:

if you have 100% crit, adding more is useless.

if you have 99% crit, adding 1% crit is useful, adding 2% is wasted.

If you have 99% crit but 0 AP and a 0 dps weapon, your shots do 0 damage. Adding 1 AP adds a lot more to your DPS than adding 1% crit (which would add nothing).

Extreme examples obviously, but the trend is the same throughout the range, which is what the DPS gained from a stat table is for - it shows how much dps each point of each stat gained would be given your current values of all stats.

 

• Praxx

I have a recommendation to a make the Gear tab a bit easier to read. Instead of displaying 0 for all item / stat cells that do not have a value, display it as a blank cell. Either:

"=IF(VLOOKUP(MainSelected,MeleeStats,4,FALSE)=0,"",VLOOKUP(MainSelected,MeleeStats,4, FALSE))"

or

Format > Conditional Formatting > Cell Value is > Equal to > 0 > format the text as white.

The conditional formatting would be the easier of the two fixes and would not modify your base formulas which would make it my choice.

 

Gearknight

That still doesn't make sense, at least not to me. As you add more crit, each 1% crit still turns the same number of hits into crits, adding the same amount of damage. It's less dps increase relative to your total dps, but still a constant dps increase. Especially in the case of agility, where you're adding both AP and crit, the value should continue to increase.

However, I'm also noticing that those stat+1 cells on the Settings and Results page are just wrong. Adding 1 crit to my setup increases my total DPS by 0.52, yet the +1 crit cell says 0.387

Edit: Nevermind, apparently clicking the "Calculate Attributes" button on the Gear tab is a good thing to do. I suggest that a copy of this button be placed on the Settings and Results tab, and some explanation of its function and importance be put somewhere obvious.

 

Cheeky

Been out of the loop all week (although San Jose is lovely...) here are some answers/comments.

I thought I updated the Scorpid Poison to have the correct ratio of +damage from RAP. Maybe I screwed it up. I'll check it when I get home.

Hmm, this sounds like a degrade of the OffHand weapon list. Is anyone else experiencing this? You can probably work around it by just typing in the item name, or loading it from Armory.

I don't count any spirit-based mana regen in the calculations (it's useless for us in combat situations.) Could it be you switched from a 1:1 to a 3:2 (or even a Priority rotation?) They would both consume mana at a faster rate. (As would sticking with a 1:1 but hasting yourself.)

I'll look into the buffs. In general I find straight % increases of little use, since this is primarily a comparison tool.

Spelling error, as noted above.

I'll get the text updated to scrape it properly. The individual who supplied that feature told me that he couldn't guarantee every enchant was supported, but he made it trivial for me to extend them.

I need to fix it automatically working when you change gear or the hand-adjust rows. That used to work, but I broke it through very poor coding practices in the Visual Basic script.

Cheeky of Havoc

 

dlanod

A very minor nitpick, but it's been causing me problems for the last ten or so versions so I've finally got around to reporting it. The capitalisation of [Shard-bound Bracers] is wrong, causing the Armory gear load to complain each time. You've got the "Bound" part capitalised, whereas it should be in lower case.

 

Wensleydale

I understand what you are saying, but your analogy doesn't apply since I am no where near a 100% crit rate. The entire crit-value drop happens between a 40% crit and 41% crit margin.

After playing around with the spreadsheet for a while longer, I figured out the cause for the sudden drop: somewhere around 40% crit, Go For The Throat starts returning enough focus to my Windserpent that the average focus regen goes over 33.33 focus per second, at which point further focus gains no longer increase the Windserpent's Lightning Breath frequency.

 

◊ Lactose

Just a note to the people who've sent me a PM these last couple of days, or posted bugs or similar here:
I'll be going through them all this weekend, and updating the first posts as needed. So, if I haven't had time to reply to you all yet, don't worry.

Look, Lactose, we'd rather you didn't eradicate the whole human race.
- Sam & Max

 

Titebete

I just can't open the SpreadSheet. Excel keep telling me "File unreachable or read only" though I downloaded it on my computer. Currently using Microsoft Office Excel 2003 SP2.

I searched the net but found no reference to such a problem. Any idea on how to fix this issue ?

 

KraxisSingular

Always run with 1:1 as I found the 3:2 with my weapons to be highly wasteful of mana for way too little gain.
There might be a difference, I got the Shoulders of Lighting Reflexes some time ago, but I have also gotten the badge crossbow. That should actually result in better time to OOM overall, not markedly worse. I don't get it.

Btw, Leggings of the Pursuit are wrongly given the armor value of 787 while their true value is 864.