Hunter Spreadsheets -- In development - Page 87

zoujin · 06/02/08, 8:59 AM

Originally Posted by Scio

Personally I would grab [Mantle of the Golden Forest] and [Cloak of Unforgivable Sin]. Those are kinda sure thing items since they dont have any INT

Int has nothing to do with it. T6 gloves + mantle are inferior to T6 shoulders + [Thalassian Ranger Gauntlets] or [Gloves of Immortal Dusk].

dragonskin · 06/02/08, 10:20 AM

2 sunwell mail items guys

the cloak is shared with some others anyhow.

Bovii · 06/02/08, 1:04 PM

Technically, the Thalassian Ranger Gauntlets outclass the Gloves of Immortal Dusk simply because of the improved AGI, STA, and Armor Pen plus INT versus the leather equivalents. Though, quite frankly, wearing full leather w/ the T6 shoulders, bracers, belt, boots, and the KJ helm is about where you want to be when it is all said and done.

wilfbrimer · 06/02/08, 1:33 PM

Looking at it I get the following

Nyn'jah's Tabi Boots 47.49 Badge Reward
Edgewalker Longboots 41.72 Karazhan
Fel Leather Boots 39.27 Crafting
Boots of Utter Darkness 39.00 Crafting
Cobra-Lash Boots 37.71 Serpentshrine Cavern
Fiend Slayer Boots 37.27 Karazhan
Sunrage Treads 35.83 Dungeon
Star-Strider Boots 35.35 The Eye
Boots of the Crimson Hawk 32.26 Crafting
Boots of Effortless Striking 31.83 Serpentshrine Cavern

I currently have fiend slayer boots and it's telling me that Fel Leather Boots is better for DPS, I have it set to current hit rateing and I'm currently hit capped, how can this be?

There are several other places where I see this type of result.

my current armory is The World of Warcraft Armory

Ebonleaf · 06/02/08, 1:46 PM

Originally Posted by wilfbrimer

Looking at it I get the following

Nyn'jah's Tabi Boots 47.49 Badge Reward
Edgewalker Longboots 41.72 Karazhan
Fel Leather Boots 39.27 Crafting
Boots of Utter Darkness 39.00 Crafting
Cobra-Lash Boots 37.71 Serpentshrine Cavern
Fiend Slayer Boots 37.27 Karazhan
Sunrage Treads 35.83 Dungeon
Star-Strider Boots 35.35 The Eye
Boots of the Crimson Hawk 32.26 Crafting
Boots of Effortless Striking 31.83 Serpentshrine Cavern

I currently have fiend slayer boots and it's telling me that Fel Leather Boots is better for DPS, I have it set to current hit rateing and I'm currently hit capped, how can this be?

There are several other places where I see this type of result.

my current armory is The World of Warcraft Armory

Honestly, i'd take it with a grain of salt. Cheeky's doing the best he can with it and it's still in beta it seems. I would view it more as a guide. I know that i can build a better set than what it tells me 9 times out of 10. But i still look at those items because it thinks it would be good for me. That's pretty much the basis for the spreadsheet, theorycrafting.

wilfbrimer · 06/02/08, 1:49 PM

And I really appreciate the work Cheeky does, just worded it bad I guess. As a side note I'd like a review of me gear and spec with though toward any reccomendations. We are just starting SSC and TK Gurrls is on farm and I do want the DST.

Bovii · 06/02/08, 2:39 PM

Originally Posted by wilfbrimer

And I really appreciate the work Cheeky does, just worded it bad I guess. As a side note I'd like a review of me gear and spec with though toward any reccomendations. We are just starting SSC and TK Gurrls is on farm and I do want the DST.

There isn't really anything to critique. You're just starting out in SSC/TK so you can't really upgrade anything. You should snag some additional pieces out of ZA when you get the chance but your hit value is very good, your crit is good, and you almost 100% gemmed correctly. The only thing that I would suggest is dropping the +10 CR gem out of your helm (should be AGI) and replacing the blue gem out of your belt (should also be AGI). But really, you've got the best weapon for a BM Hunter that you can get until later content or until you feel like upgrading to the Xbow of Relentless Strikes (which may or may not be a boost) and you're setup relatively good.

Scio · 06/02/08, 3:38 PM

Originally Posted by Bovii

Technically, the Thalassian Ranger Gauntlets outclass the Gloves of Immortal Dusk simply because of the improved AGI, STA, and Armor Pen plus INT versus the leather equivalents. Though, quite frankly, wearing full leather w/ the T6 shoulders, bracers, belt, boots, and the KJ helm is about where you want to be when it is all said and done.

I always thought [Beast-tamer's Shoulders] surpassed almost everything in-game because of the mad scaling thoose shoulders give your pet thus using the GS gloves + the sunwell pieces.

I may be wrong but some kitchentable maths states that those shoulders are worth depending on group setup 85-150dps (if you get a hunter group with an extra enchance shammy).

Dch48 · 06/02/08, 5:44 PM

Sorting the gear alphabetically in the gear planner does not set it back to alphabetical on the gear tab. It stays in the same order it was sorted by dps.

Bovii · 06/02/08, 5:47 PM

Originally Posted by Scio

I always thought [Beast-tamer's Shoulders] surpassed almost everything in-game because of the mad scaling thoose shoulders give your pet thus using the GS gloves + the sunwell pieces.

I may be wrong but some kitchentable maths states that those shoulders are worth depending on group setup 85-150dps (if you get a hunter group with an extra enchance shammy).

Thing is, you're comparing a slight increase in damage to your pet versus a large increase to your own DPS. Gronnstalker's Spaulders - Thottbot: World of Warcraft v [Beast-tamer's Shoulders], you lose AGI, INT, 2 gem slots, and armor penetration plus the fact that you're not forcing yourself to use T6 gloves or helm and they're both extreme down grades compared to the Sunwell equivalents.

Even for a BM Hunter, those shoulders are bad once you're gearing up full bore in SWP. Ideally, a Hunter will wear the following (no links, so forgive me):

KJ helm (mail)
Brut neck
Gronn shoulders
Immortal Chest
KJ cloak
Gronn bracers
Immortal Gloves/Thalassian Ranger Gauntlets
Gronn belt
Immortal legs
Gronn boots
ZA ring
Badge ring
DST/M'uru trinket <choice>
BT trinket/M'uru trinket <choice>

Golden Bow/Thor'idal
Felspine/Sanguination Daggers x2/KJ Daggers x2

That is pretty much how it is going to go for every Hunter, end game. Granted, that is assuming that you can even get to that point but yeah, that is pretty much it. Some Hunters may choose to go with the mail equivalents but I'm willing to bet that the loss in mana is going to mean an extreme gain in personal DPS. And, as we all know, that is what is most important.

Dch48 · 06/02/08, 5:55 PM

Originally Posted by Tsook

Read the thread, please. Cheeky stated that the Gear Planner currently doesn't take the 40 AP on the DST into account, so it's showing up much lower than it should be.

The gear on the gear tab shows up in the order it's on the gear planner tab. If you click 'alphabetize' on the gear planner tab, then it will be alphabetical on the gear tab too.

Read the thread? It's over 80 pages

The order does not change on the gear tab for main hand weapons but it does for the other gear and--I still want to know why things change so much on the planner when I do the calc attributes, but those changes do not carry over into the gear tab when you plug things in. Do you have to exit and save after changing anything?

Maybe the reason why weapons with haste lower the dps of the DST in the planner because the haste proc is not needed as much? My current gear has 70 haste. If I take the sword off and go to any weapon without haste, the DST dps increases about 35% . I am very leery of the calc attributes button and the gear planner at this time.

Scio · 06/02/08, 6:32 PM

Originally Posted by Bovii

Thing is, you're comparing a slight increase in damage to your pet versus a large increase to your own DPS. Gronnstalker's Spaulders - Thottbot: World of Warcraft v [Beast-tamer's Shoulders], you lose AGI, INT, 2 gem slots, and armor penetration plus the fact that you're not forcing yourself to use T6 gloves or helm and they're both extreme down grades compared to the Sunwell equivalents.

Sorry, I stand corrected.

Tsook · 06/02/08, 10:38 PM

Originally Posted by Dch48

Read the thread? It's over 80 pages

The order does not change on the gear tab for main hand weapons but it does for the other gear and--I still want to know why things change so much on the planner when I do the calc attributes, but those changes do not carry over into the gear tab when you plug things in. Do you have to exit and save after changing anything?

Maybe the reason why weapons with haste lower the dps of the DST in the planner because the haste proc is not needed as much? My current gear has 70 haste. If I take the sword off and go to any weapon without haste, the DST dps increases about 35% . I am very leery of the calc attributes button and the gear planner at this time.

Yeah, the issue with it failing to re-sort main hand/off hand weapons was already reported and acknowledged by Cheeky:
http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t9816-hu...81/#post744241

The gear planner is still in alpha/beta. Cheeky specifically states in the patch notes for version 48 that "haste and procs may be a little screwy." The way it works is by determining the value of adding 1 of a stat and then uses those values to determine the relative value of different items for a slot. Since those valuations change as you stack more of a stat, in general I would assume that the bigger the difference between what you're wearing and the item in question, the less accurate the listed DPS number will be. I wouldn't recommend it for finding exact absolute dps increases between items. It's mostly meaningful for comparing two different items for the same slot to get some kind of priority/ranking.

There is also at least one known issue with the spreadsheet's modeling of the DST, which is that the latency correction stuff Cheeky did a few version ago has not been ported to the DST tab:
http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t9816-hu...84/#post756950

But yes, in general your intuition is correct. Having more passive haste reduces the value of the DST because you're closer to the haste cap.

Dch48 · 06/03/08, 7:00 PM

Thank you Tsook for clarifying and confirming some of the issues I was experiencing. Your post was very helpful. I had been somewhat relying on the Hunteraep addon but that needs an update to give points for things like penetration and haste. I certainly commend Cheeky for the time and effort put into this tool and I will continue to use it and look for updates.

beathoven · 06/04/08, 7:15 AM

It seems as if in the latest OpenOffice version of the spreadsheet the T5 and T6 shoulders and gloves have been assigned the wrong item sets:

T5 shoulder -> The Eye instead of Rift Stalker Armor
T6 shoulder -> Black Temple instead of Gronnstalker's Armor

T5 gloves -> 1 instead of Rift Stalker Armor
T6 gloves -> 1 instead of Gronnstalker's Armor

Sarutobi · 06/04/08, 1:33 PM

There appears to be a bug with the custom gear (for the glove slot) and the gear planner. For every slot except the glove slot, the custom gear is properly sorted for DPS, but for the glove slot, the custom gear is only shown properly if sorted alphabetically.

Also, for the custom gear, could a separate slot be added for 2-handed weapons?

♦ Uthane · 06/05/08, 3:04 AM

It looks like there's a bug for the feet enchants - it doesn't read the in game enchant of "minor speed + 6 agility" as "cat's swiftness" in the spreadhseet.

Rezdan · 06/05/08, 5:12 AM

The gear planner is still in alpha/beta. Cheeky specifically states in the patch notes for version 48 that "haste and procs may be a little screwy." The way it works is by determining the value of adding 1 of a stat and then uses those values to determine the relative value of different items for a slot. Since those valuations change as you stack more of a stat, in general I would assume that the bigger the difference between what you're wearing and the item in question, the less accurate the listed DPS number will be.

I'm assuming then that this means the Gear Planner isn't actually replacing the New Item into the slot but rather just weighing the item with the values obtained from the Settings and Results tab?

Moonhammer · 06/05/08, 7:02 AM

Not sure if this was said before, checked, but didn't see anyone mentioning it.
The sheet gives me a 23.95% crit chance, but in game it says 24.55%. How is that possible?

Lactose · 06/05/08, 7:36 AM

Originally Posted by Moonhammer

Not sure if this was said before, checked, but didn't see anyone mentioning it.
The sheet gives me a 23.95% crit chance, but in game it says 24.55%. How is that possible?

A -0.60% Crit modifier is assumed against level 73 targets.

Kaji-Boulderfist · 06/05/08, 9:46 AM

Is there a chance of getting the enhance shaman proc, Unleashed Rage modeled into the spreadsheet? It's 10% AP which is quite a bit after Imp might and Battleshout.

Talithin · 06/05/08, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by Kaji-Boulderfist

Is there a chance of getting the enhance shaman proc, Unleashed Rage modeled into the spreadsheet? It's 10% AP which is quite a bit after Imp might and Battleshout.

unleashes rage increases melee ap not ranged. so it would only affect your pet.

Kaji-Boulderfist · 06/05/08, 10:02 PM

Originally Posted by Talithin

unleashes rage increases melee ap not ranged. so it would only affect your pet.

I changed the wording of my post at the last second but yeah, it is pet only but it's still quite of bit of pet Damage being unaccounted for.

Dude · 06/07/08, 12:04 PM

Originally Posted by Uthane

It looks like there's a bug for the feet enchants - it doesn't read the in game enchant of "minor speed + 6 agility" as "cat's swiftness" in the spreadhseet.

I downloaded the newest version of the spreadsheet this morning and when I loaded my character from the armory, I got the same message. After I made the appropriate changes to the pet tab, I scrolled down in the gear tab and was able to change the enchant on the boots to cat's swiftness, which puts the +6 agi in the proper field.

I hope this work-around helps...

Dude · 06/07/08, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by beathoven

It seems as if in the latest OpenOffice version of the spreadsheet the T5 and T6 shoulders and gloves have been assigned the wrong item sets:

T5 shoulder -> The Eye instead of Rift Stalker Armor
T6 shoulder -> Black Temple instead of Gronnstalker's Armor

T5 gloves -> 1 instead of Rift Stalker Armor
T6 gloves -> 1 instead of Gronnstalker's Armor

I also use the OpenOffice version and noted the same issue for the T6 gloves. The T6 leggings have the correct item set (gronnstalker's armor). Those are the only pieces of tier 6 gear I have so far and I did not verify the other items.

Can the "1" be changed to "gronnstalker's armor" and have it work correctly? Or is that change something that Cheeky must do?