Hunter Spreadsheets -- In development - Page 89

Cheeky · 01/31/08, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by Sarutobi

The Wowhead spell info (link) indicates that it is -66% as the tooltip suggests.

Cool. This was nice piece of detective work Lactose. I really believe it's going to change the crit/hit weighings a bit. It also means getting hit-capped is probably the best way to improve DPS.

<10 minutes later>

My Gear/Talents/Shots, 1-roll system:

Hunter DPS	864.61
Pet DPS	        267.81
Total DPS	1132.42

Attribute	DPS	Per Item Budget	
Agility + 1	0.454	0.454	
AP + 1	        0.234	0.467	
Crit + 1	0.397	0.397	
Hit + 1	        0.411	0.411	
Int + 1	        0.000	0.000	
Armor Pen + 1	0.039	0.274	
Haste + 1	0.458	0.458

Same, 2-roll system Hunter, 1-roll system Pet:

Hunter DPS	857.73
Pet DPS	        267.81
Total DPS	1125.54

Attribute	DPS	Per Item Budget	
Agility + 1	0.447	0.447	
AP + 1	        0.232	0.464	
Crit + 1	0.388	0.388	
Hit + 1         0.576	0.576	
Int + 1	        0.000	0.000	
Armor Pen + 1	0.039	0.271	
Haste + 1	0.454	0.454

I lose 7 DPS, since I wasn't hit-capped.

Hit becomes vastly more valuable now. And this is with a base hit chance on level 73 mobs of 99.19%. And because of my miss rate, my other stats are depressed in value. I'll have a new version of the spreadsheet tonight if we don't get any evidence to contradict Lactose.

Kwellthân · 01/31/08, 11:25 AM

Keep getting 100% chance to hit when I in fact don't have it. A friend of mine has 6,6% and gets a 100% too :-/ (using the newest version 40)

Lactose · 01/31/08, 11:33 AM

Change the target to a Level 73 one instead of a Level 70 one.

Kwellthân · 01/31/08, 11:47 AM

Thx helped a lot - though I liked my dps better before :-(

Gadget · 01/31/08, 12:57 PM

Why is "Demon Stalker Shouldergards" not supported? Perhaps you wanted to remove Dragonstalker instead?

KahtraScilla · 01/31/08, 1:00 PM

Putting 2 points into GftT with a cat as a pet shows a reduction in Ferocious Inspiration uptime.

Ferocious Inspiration (with 2/2 GftT)
Duration 10
Critical Hit chance 16.90%
Attack Speed 1.01
Special Speed 0.67
KC Speed 5.37
Uptime 99.30%
Benefit 3.00%
Effective Benefit 2.98%

Ferocious Inspiration (without GftT)
Duration 10
Critical Hit chance 16.90%
Attack Speed 1.02
Special Speed 0.32
KC Speed 5.37
Uptime 99.96%
Benefit 3.00%
Effective Benefit 3.00%

Seems counter-intuitive since critical chance is unaffected, but the pet is attacking more frequently.

Navras · 01/31/08, 1:15 PM

Originally Posted by Kwellthân

Keep getting 100% chance to hit when I in fact don't have it. A friend of mine has 6,6% and gets a 100% too :-/ (using the newest version 40)

Cheeky changed it from default level 73 mob to default level 70 mob just because SO many people asked all the time why their crit chance was lower than their paper-doll crit. Now, I have a feeling there will be just as many people wondering why their hit % is at 100 even though they're not capped. QQ. (Personally, I liked the default lev 73 more, but I understand Cheeky's reasons.)

Cheeky · 01/31/08, 1:46 PM

Originally Posted by KahtraScilla

Putting 2 points into GftT with a cat as a pet shows a reduction in Ferocious Inspiration uptime.

Seems counter-intuitive since critical chance is unaffected, but the pet is attacking more frequently.

I have the wrong units for pet special attack speed. It shouldn't be 1/X like I have in cell I44. It lowers everyone's uptime of FI to a maximum benefit of about 2.8-2.85%. I'll have this fixed in the next release. Good find!

Rokh · 01/31/08, 2:39 PM

Cheeky, just a reminder / check if the new timing "rules" you and Lactose have come up with will be included in the next release as well. Been eager to see how that affects everything, if at all. I have a feeling Haste Rating will be valued a bit higher as a result, since rotations can be tightened up a bit.

Mercy XXVI · 01/31/08, 4:09 PM

Is there a mirror for the Spreadsheet? The Havoc-Guild site seems to be down. Well, for me, anyway.

EDIT: And now it seems to be up.... I'll see if I can get the download to start up.

EDIT 2: Nope, still can't get the spreadsheet. I'm trying to get the OO spreadsheet, btw. Can't download the excel one either, though.

ohrion · 01/31/08, 4:55 PM

Originally Posted by Cheeky

Very few mobs provide that level of debuff. What I'm curious about was if we are positive it is -66%.

It could introduce quite a few new variables into the equation, but perhaps the average crit rate on those mobs could be compared to the average crit rate on other mobs.

• Intermission · 02/01/08, 12:42 AM

I think this was mentioned before, but I didnt see Cheeky comment on it:

Regarding the default level (I know, sore topic!).

When you select a boss target, eg Azgalor (6200 armor), he remains a level 70 until you change the Custom Target's level. I checked to see if the armor of Azgalor/other bosses still works, and it does. It is just the level that sticks with the Custom Target even if the Custom Target isnt selected.

ps: Been using this spreadsheet for months/years, big thanks

Ragnar · 02/01/08, 1:48 AM

When I add mp5 to gear, it works fine, like normal. When I add Judgement of Wisdom to buffs, it works fine, like normal. When I combine the two, weird things happen, in a sinergistic effect.

For example:
Given my gear set, base time to mana exhaustion is 118 sec.
If I add 40 mp5 to my base gear, TtME is 136 sec. 40 mp5 added about 18 seconds.
If instead I add JoW to base, TtME is 308. JoW added 190 sec.
If I add 40 mp5 and JoW to base, TtME is 463 sec.

Thus, adding JoW to 40mp5 gives me an additional 327 sec, 70% more than JoW without 40mp5. Likewise, adding 40 mp5 to JoW gives me an additional 155 sec, about 8.6 times as much as adding 40 mp5 gave me without JoW.

Starting with JoW buff and base gear's TtME of 308:
Adding 1 mp5 gives 2 sec to base TtME.
Adding 2 mp5 gives 5 sec to base.
Adding 10 mp5 gives 28 sec to base.

If I turn off JoW buff, mp5 addition goes back to being linear. With JoW up, adding mp5 to gear starts giving you exponentially increasing benefits. I don't know where the multiplicative bonus for having both is coming from, but it seems like a clear bug to me.

P.S. Thanks so much for putting together this spreadsheet. It's a fantastic resource.

Belzi.ET · 02/01/08, 3:59 AM

MP5 and your TtME isn't linear at all.

I don't wanna do the math here, but just think about it. There is a fix amount of about MP5 where you can't go oom with a given shot-rotation.
If you have about 3 steady shots within 5 seconds, you need roundabout 300 MP5 to stay at your mana-pool (don't go oom).

Every single MP5 gives an exponential plus on your TtME, until you kind of 'capped' your MP5 and therefore have an infinite TtME.

Thorongil · 02/01/08, 4:01 AM

Originally Posted by Ragnar

When I add mp5 to gear, it works fine, like normal. When I add Judgement of Wisdom to buffs, it works fine, like normal. When I combine the two, weird things happen, in a sinergistic effect.

For example:
Given my gear set, base time to mana exhaustion is 118 sec.
If I add 40 mp5 to my base gear, TtME is 136 sec. 40 mp5 added about 18 seconds.
If instead I add JoW to base, TtME is 308. JoW added 190 sec.
If I add 40 mp5 and JoW to base, TtME is 463 sec.

Thus, adding JoW to 40mp5 gives me an additional 327 sec, 70% more than JoW without 40mp5. Likewise, adding 40 mp5 to JoW gives me an additional 155 sec, about 8.6 times as much as adding 40 mp5 gave me without JoW.

Starting with JoW buff and base gear's TtME of 308:
Adding 1 mp5 gives 2 sec to base TtME.
Adding 2 mp5 gives 5 sec to base.
Adding 10 mp5 gives 28 sec to base.

If I turn off JoW buff, mp5 addition goes back to being linear. With JoW up, adding mp5 to gear starts giving you exponentially increasing benefits. I don't know where the multiplicative bonus for having both is coming from, but it seems like a clear bug to me.

P.S. Thanks so much for putting together this spreadsheet. It's a fantastic resource.

I don´t have time to do complete maths on this one here at work, but just a quick thought: The TtME needs to scale exponentially. Think of the extreme: Your mp5 is the same as your mp5-usage, so your TtME is infinte. You won´t reach an infinite result in such a quick jump without an exponential function (as far as my mathematical understanding goes, you´ll never reach it with a linear function unless one of your variables has an infinite amount).