Hunter Spreadsheets -- In development - Page 93

mike_rochannel · 07/21/08, 1:46 PM

What do you mean by "Shoulder 2"?

In Column "W" you name the different Gem-Slots, like "Neck 1", "Neck 2" .. and there is "Shoulder 1" and "Shoudler 2" .. i can't see your Code so i have no idea if you use that Column just as a Comment or if you use it to look the row up ..

Mike

mike_rochannel · 07/21/08, 1:52 PM

Originally Posted by Cheeky

I'm not going to add the SR pieces, because they are equivalent to "None" in DPS. Just use "None" for your Mother set.

Actually, since they do have Stamina on them "None" does not fit. For for some fights I need a certain amount of Stamina and i use your your sheet also to see how stamina end's up after being buffed and the like.

I can understand that you can't see my point, but "None" is not correct

Mike

Crowbite · 07/21/08, 2:37 PM

Originally Posted by mike_rochannel

Actually, since they do have Stamina on them "None" does not fit. For for some fights I need a certain amount of Stamina and i use your your sheet also to see how stamina end's up after being buffed and the like.

I can understand that you can't see my point, but "None" is not correct

Mike

What!?!? Why don't you pull out a calculator and add the extra stamina yourself? Those pieces do not add any DPS value so it is pointless to have on a DPS SPREADSHEET

Fuulish · 07/21/08, 3:15 PM

Originally Posted by mike_rochannel

In Column "W" you name the different Gem-Slots, like "Neck 1", "Neck 2" .. and there is "Shoulder 1" and "Shoudler 2" .. i can't see your Code so i have no idea if you use that Column just as a Comment or if you use it to look the row up ..

Mike

@Mike_Rochannel:
Max SR isn't needed really for that fight if your healers are any good at all. Just use the Medallion of Karabor, Night's End, Waistguard of Shackled Souls, Boots of Shackled Souls, and Bracers of Shackled Souls. Put +15 SR on the cloak and +8 SR armor kit on the boots. That'll put you at 321 buffed. More than plenty, and it's more economical in terms of HoD usage. Worry more about moving.

@Cheeky:
Small request if possible. I've been getting more and more "Armory is busy" errors these days, which subsequently fubars the spreadsheet. Would it be possible to import from a pre-saved XML file instead of live from the Armory?

Cheeky · 07/21/08, 6:10 PM

Originally Posted by Fuulish

@Cheeky:
Small request if possible. I've been getting more and more "Armory is busy" errors these days, which subsequently fubars the spreadsheet. Would it be possible to import from a pre-saved XML file instead of live from the Armory?

Why not just use one of the 10 available profiles to save the sets you want?

Faerdael · 07/21/08, 6:21 PM

I have a request regarding the [Shattered Sun Pendant of Might] for Scryers. I notice that the Scryers proc is listed under the Calculations tab, but does not figure into the overall DPS figure for the hunter. Would it be possible to apply this?

Also, can we get Blood Frenzy added to target debuffs?

alienangel · 07/22/08, 2:50 AM

Wow, the speedup on the buttons for v50 is amazing Cheeky & Co.

However, some nits to reluctantly pick:
i. Gear Planning tab: I think "Alphabatize" should probably be "Alphabetize" or "Alphabetise"
ii. DST Tab: while the other two shot rotation tabs update pretty much instantly when I click the rotation buttons, the DST tab still feels like it's calculating while changing shots on each row - is the code to disable recalcs not present on this tabs?

Indora · 07/22/08, 6:24 AM

ii. DST Tab: while the other two shot rotation tabs update pretty much instantly when I click the rotation buttons, the DST tab still feels like it's calculating while changing shots on each row - is the code to disable recalcs not present on this tabs?

Well, if a rotation has to calculate something, it's impossible to use Cole's idea.
However, a simple 1:1 Rotation (instead of a priority one) would be possible, maybe Cheeky can add one.

Originally Posted by Cheeky

1) I don't understand what you are saying? I think my model of IAotH is working accurately (~49.5% uptime for me.)

That's because you're a BM.
WotLK Calculations!i26 (Avg. Shots before Nth reproc) isn't changed to look for WotLK talents, but rather the normal ones.
Because this Calculation is important to calculate the downtime (and all other cells work correct), the spreadsheet provides 100% uptime if you have 5/5 imp. aspect of the hawk in wotlk and 0/5 in the normal talents.
(In addition, the calculation isn't correct even if you're a BM, because it's based on your normal rotation.)

Originally Posted by Cheeky

2) Ah, I missed that. It's not an uber-talent anymore then. It becomes ~150 Mp5, instead of 400+ for a raid buffed pet.

Well, with Cobra Strikes implented it's still ~300 Mp5.

Originally Posted by Cheeky

3) I think you are misunderstanding cast times and cool downs. Steady takes 2.0 seconds to cast (pre haste) and the GCD is 1.5s. Most Hunters will have <1.5s Steady Shot casts due to Quiver, Quick Shots, Windfury, and +haste gear.

First of all, why does it take Steadsy 2 seconds to cast?
As far as I know it's 1.5 seconds, and I've found no source about changing it to 2.0 in WotLK.
Survival-/Marksman Hunter without Windfury will see a >1.5 Seconds cast quite often (especially if they haven't skilled quickshots.)
But even with a >1.5 and <2.0 cast time, it's possible to shoot with an 1.5 frequency! Since patch 2.3, it's possible to start the next shot, even if you are still casting something, as long as there is <0.5 Second left to finish the shot. The GCD will start immediatly with your click. However, your cast will start just after the previous one ends. (Even without any latency [as long as it's not about >500ms]!).
This is what you expect shooting a steady with 2 seconds cast:

Steady: |--------------------|--------------------|--------------------|--------------------|
gcd:    |---------------|....|---------------|....|---------------|....|---------------|....

One Steady every 2 Seconds, GCD always starting together with the next steady. After the beginning of the GCD, there would be *lag* seconds until the steady cast start, but I'll ignore this for now.

But actually, this will happen if you spam your Steady Shot button:

Steady: |--------------------|--------------------|--------------------|--------------------|
gcd:    |---------------||---------------|....|---------------|....|--------------|....|-----

The first GCD start simultaniously with the first steady, but the 2nd gcd will start before the steady ends!
You can see this behavior shooting aimed->steady very well. It's the same with Autocast->steady, but as Aimed Shot's casting time is longer it's easier to see. This confusing thing also made people think that there's a way to lower the GCD:
Shoting Aimed->Steady will result with 1 Steady in 1 Second! However, Aimed->Steady->Steady->Steady will result in 3 Steadys in 2.5 Seconds. 0.5 Seconds of the Gcd are already over at the moment the first steady starts/the aimed shot ends.

Now, how can this help us?
Well, having a 2 second cast time for steady shot won't limit us shooting with a 1.5 frequency. All we have to do is to shoot steady and an instant shot alternately. This way, we can start the gcd before the steady is over. In addition, the remaining 0.5 seconds of the steady are cast in the gcd-interval of the instant, so that the following steady can start immediately, again:

Steady:  |--------------------|...........|--------------------|............|--------------------|........
Instant: ......................|................................|................................|........
gcd:     |--------------||---------------||---------------||---------------||---------------||------------

Sadly, the CDs of our instant shots arcane & multi are too high to shoot an steady-instant rotation:

steady
multi
steady
arcane
steady
->4 seconds left on multi's CD, 3 on arcane's (2 with 5/5 imp. arcane shot)

Fortunately, we get a new shot with WotLK: Kill Shot.

steady
multi
steady
arcane
steady
kill
steady
arcane
~~

--> Being a Survival, not having a windfury totem, this may be the best dps rotation, even though arcane's & kill shot's damage is lower than steady's. The actual damage of the instant shot is
normal damage + Steadyshotdamage * 0.5 / 1.5

edit
btw, when steady shot's cast time really is 2 second, there's a lot of work for you, because you can't just take the average of, for example, rapid fire / heroism / quick shots / Dst (and other upcoming trinkets).
10 Seconds with an steady casting time of 1 second doesn't provide as much dps as 20 seconds with an steady casting time of 1.5 seconds, as the gcd can't be lowered to <1.5 seconds.
You would have to create a lot of rotations (one for quick shots, one for rapid fire, one for rapid fire & quick shots ........) and then calculate the uptime of each.

edit2
Oh, there's another thing you may think about:
As Auto Shot can be fired while your casting a shot, Aimed Shot may be part of our rotation, too:
It's basespeed of 2.5 is lower than the most weapons. Starting shortly after an auto shot, it will fire just after the next one. Even if it resets the autocast it's no problem - the auto shot just went off anyway.
As far as I know (which is not much, I used aimed shot maybe once in a month..) the following auto take ~0.5 seconds more to shoot.

Comparing to Steady Shot:
While Aimed shot does 1570 additional damage where steady shot only have 280, it also costs (0.5+human error (~0.2))*Auto Dps Damage.
Assuming 5k ap (with target debuffs), 120 weapon dps and 60 ammu dps, that would be:
(5000 / 14 + 120 + 60) * 0.7 = 375.
As Aimed Shot has 1.8 seconds cast time (quiver + SS) and you have to time, there will also be ~0.5 seconds where the gcd isn't active. Thus, you also loose 0.5 / 1.5 * Steady Shot Damage additional damage.
0.5 / 1.5 * (5000/5 + 120*2.8 + 60*2.8+280) = 600

--> 1570 - 280 - 375 - 600 = still 315 more damage, although you can reduce clipping even more with some exercise.
Of course it isn't very mana efficient (0.5 damage per mana :>) but I think there will be situations where burst damage is important (Auto shot + Aimed shot + instant shot in <0.5 seconds!), even in pve. And it's about 30 dps.

I know, this looks like naive math, but the idea (using aimed shot with only very few clipping) is correct.

Kathucka · 07/22/08, 3:28 PM

Found a bug in Version 50.

Calculations!Q6 is =SUM(Q4). It should be =SUM(Q4:Q5). This bug prevents the Scryers proc from the Shattered Sun Pendant of Might from being counted. Fixing it solves the problem.

Fairbo · 07/22/08, 3:37 PM

I just tried to import my hunter from the armory & I noticed that the S4 honor gear has not been added in this new version.

[Guardian's Pendant of Triumph]
[Guardian's Chain Girdle]
[Guardian's Chain Bracers]
[Guardian's Chain Sabatons]

alienangel · 07/22/08, 3:46 PM

Originally Posted by Indora

Well, if a rotation has to calculate something, it's impossible to use Cole's idea.
However, a simple 1:1 Rotation (instead of a priority one) would be possible, maybe Cheeky can add one.

I suppose I'm misunderstanding what the DST tab does behind the screnes - what calculations does it need to when I've specified it should use only SteadyShots (ie. Steadyshot at Priority 1 and Priority 2)? I *think* the other rotation tabs are now just filling out the list of shots when you click the 3:2/1:1 buttons, then re-enabling calculations to fill in the times and work out DPS - can the DST tabs not do the same?

First of all, why does it take Steadsy 2 seconds to cast?
As far as I know it's 1.5 seconds, and I've found no source about changing it to 2.0 in WotLK.

The change is mentioned in the WOTLK Hunter Talents thread.

Cheeky · 07/23/08, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by alienangel

I suppose I'm misunderstanding what the DST tab does behind the screnes - what calculations does it need to when I've specified it should use only SteadyShots (ie. Steadyshot at Priority 1 and Priority 2)? I *think* the other rotation tabs are now just filling out the list of shots when you click the 3:2/1:1 buttons, then re-enabling calculations to fill in the times and work out DPS - can the DST tabs not do the same?

Because of the way the logic works, I don't have the ability to blindly turn on/off calculations, since you may need cooldowns for Arcane and Multi. I suppose I could add logic to see if both priorities are Steady and disable it then, but I didn't spend the time to do that.

I'll correct the other bugs shortly. I've got non-special WotLK Pet DPS modeled, and I just want to add the specials before releasing. Maybe tomorrow evening.

Kwickz · 07/23/08, 1:47 PM

can some1 tell me wat page the new version of cheekys spreadsheet is on please

thanks

Keltan · 07/23/08, 2:04 PM

The latest version of the spreadsheet is always available at the link in the first post of this thread.

Even if the post comments haven't been updated (currently still refers to version 49,) the newest version is always at: http://www.havoc-guild.us/Cheeky/Hunter_DPS_Calc.xls .

Flowerhowl · 07/23/08, 4:30 PM

FYI:

I'm using Firefox as my default web browser. I downloaded the "new" v50 several times from the first page, but for some reason I ended up with the v49 version every time. I think it is a caching issue.

I now downloaded it with Internet explorer and I got the proper v50...

Maybe adding the version number to the file name would solve this issue.

orinaccio · 07/23/08, 5:47 PM

Cheeky & Lactose, if you don't mind my asking, are you guys in beta?

You don't have to answer if you don't want to, its just that it would give me comfort knowing you guys are in a position to test and offer feedback during the Beta process.

Hope you're having fun with the new talents and I look forward to hearing your thoughts on them if and when you share them, and seeing how the spreadsheet evolves.

DreamScaper · 07/23/08, 5:55 PM

I dont remember how to import/export. I did it on previous versions, but cant seem to do it anymore. my macro level is set to low.

When i click on export to file nothing happens. When i click import from file, for any versions, it appears to import something but after about 15 mins its the same workbooks.

Is there a file i can delete and force it to export? i cant even seem to export my data from v47.

I found the data file in my documents. Its my 49 info so thats right. i think it imports fine into v47 but when i try to import into 50 i get the downloaded version.

Nayame · 07/23/08, 6:03 PM

Hi

I just downloaded the spredsheet in its newest version.
I wanted to import my data from the wowArmory but Excel tells me that there's a bug and I have to debug it o.O Is it because I'm Nayamé on Ysera on an EU-realm? Or did I do something wrong o.O°? (well, I just typed in my data as the "how-to"-page told me to do)
And second: When I pick my armor manually, nothing changes. For example: Axe "A" has 50 Agility. Now, I pick my Gladiator's Axe. Still, it's 50 agility. If I want to use the stats from the "custom gear"-page, they won't show up.

Can you help me, please?

With friendly regards,
Naya

Rødefar · 07/24/08, 6:28 AM

First time poster long time user.

In v49 I was able to get my armory info, now the new speedsheet don't allow me to use æøå in my name (special danish char)
Char name is Rødefar and I playing on Runetotem EU server.
This is the link to my armory The World of Warcraft Armory

Voldan · 07/24/08, 9:17 AM

hmm the new Sheet can´t read from the european Armory. Is it a bug or a feature?

Gistum · 07/24/08, 5:22 PM

For some reasons, the code to load the xml file changed in the new version, and it doesn't parse accent well at all. That's why it's not working with non us servers.

I put back the code from v49 and it works just fine.

If you want to make the change yourself, find those functions and replace them with those below :

Function GetDataXLS(url, searchterm)
    Set objXMLHTTP = CreateObject("MSXML2.ServerXMLHTTP.3.0")
    objXMLHTTP.Open "GET", url, False
    objXMLHTTP.SetRequestHeader "User-Agent", "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-GB; rv:1.8.1.4) Gecko/20070515 Firefox/2.0.0.4"
    objXMLHTTP.SetRequestHeader "Content-Type", "text/xml"
    objXMLHTTP.SetRequestHeader "Accept-Language", "en"
    objXMLHTTP.Send ""
    Set xmlPG = objXMLHTTP.responseXML  'Get the XML in xmlPg
    If xmlPG Is Nothing Or xmlPG.DocumentElement Is Nothing Then
        Set GetDataXLS = Nothing
    Else
        Set GetDataXLS = xmlPG.DocumentElement.selectNodes(searchterm)
    End If
    Set objXMLHTTP = Nothing
    Set xmlPG = Nothing
End Function

Function GetSingleDataXLS(url, searchterm)
    Set objXMLHTTP = CreateObject("MSXML2.ServerXMLHTTP.3.0")
    objXMLHTTP.Open "GET", url, False
    objXMLHTTP.SetRequestHeader "User-Agent", "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-GB; rv:1.8.1.4) Gecko/20070515 Firefox/2.0.0.4"
    objXMLHTTP.SetRequestHeader "Content-Type", "text/xml"
    objXMLHTTP.SetRequestHeader "Accept-Language", "en"
    objXMLHTTP.Send ""
    Set xmlPG = objXMLHTTP.responseXML  'Get the XML in xmlPg
    
    If xmlPG Is Nothing Or xmlPG.DocumentElement Is Nothing Then
        Set GetSingleDataXLS = Nothing
    Else
        Set GetSingleDataXLS = xmlPG.DocumentElement.selectSingleNode(searchterm)
    End If
    Set objXMLHTTP = Nothing
    Set xmlPG = Nothing
End Function

I can't guarantee it will work for everyone though.

Gistum

kriS411 · 07/24/08, 5:39 PM

There is a typo on Crux of the Apocolypse

Its 'Crux of the Apocalypse

Cheeky · 07/24/08, 6:08 PM

Originally Posted by orinaccio

Cheeky & Lactose, if you don't mind my asking, are you guys in beta?

You don't have to answer if you don't want to, its just that it would give me comfort knowing you guys are in a position to test and offer feedback during the Beta process.

Hope you're having fun with the new talents and I look forward to hearing your thoughts on them if and when you share them, and seeing how the spreadsheet evolves.

I am in Beta. I will test as I can to validate my models.

Originally Posted by Flowerhowl

FYI:

I'm using Firefox as my default web browser. I downloaded the "new" v50 several times from the first page, but for some reason I ended up with the v49 version every time. I think it is a caching issue.

I now downloaded it with Internet explorer and I got the proper v50...

Maybe adding the version number to the file name would solve this issue.

And have to update every link to the spreadsheet with the new name? No, thanks.

Originally Posted by Rødefar

First time poster long time user.

In v49 I was able to get my armory info, now the new speedsheet don't allow me to use æøå in my name (special danish char)
Char name is Rødefar and I playing on Runetotem EU server.
This is the link to my armory The World of Warcraft Armory

Hmmm, to my knowledge nothing should be different for special characters. I'll look again at the VB script and see if anything should be preventing it.

Originally Posted by Voldan

hmm the new Sheet can´t read from the european Armory. Is it a bug or a feature?

I was able to read Lactose's character just fine before releasing. Seems like non-US language characters are the problem. I'll try and find a solution.

Iwa Washi · 07/24/08, 7:15 PM

Originally Posted by Fairbo

I just tried to import my hunter from the armory & I noticed that the S4 honor gear has not been added in this new version.

[Guardian's Pendant of Triumph]
[Guardian's Chain Girdle]
[Guardian's Chain Bracers]
[Guardian's Chain Sabatons]

Had same problem with Guardian's Pendant of Triumph.

Cheeky · 07/24/08, 9:42 PM

Originally Posted by Iwa Washi

Had same problem with Guardian's Pendant of Triumph.

Well, I forgot to add the new Honor-based gear, but 51 is available:
- (WotLK) Invigorate now only applies to pet special attacks.
- (WotLK) Talent point totals are now accurate, and display even when you have more than 10 ranks in a tree.
- (WotLK) The damage for Steady Shot is now accurate, and based off of more than target armor.
- (WotLK) Arcane Shot's damage uses the correct numbers to calculate.
- (WotLK) Began modeling Pet DPS and talents. The following Talents are modeled (Bestial Discipline, Go For the Throat, Animal Handler, Ferocity, Frenzy, Cobra Strikes). The following abilities are modeled (Kill Command, Rabid, Spiked Collar, Cobra Reflexes, Roar of Recovery, Spider's Bite, Owl's Focus, Call of the Wild).
- Corrected a bug where the Scryer version of the Shattered Sun Pendant of Might was not being counted towards DPS.
- (WotLK) Fixed the Quick Shots uptime calculations.
- (WotLK) Modeled focus dumps (Bite/Claw/Smack) for all pets. It is assumed the focus dump will be used as often as possible after talented, focus-using abilities are used.
- Reverted Armory scrape code to work with special European letters again.

I've been focusing on WotLK changes. I'm pretty happy where things are at now. We still need new formulas for Steady Shot, but I imagine Blizzard has it so it's close to what we get now in terms of damage.