Hunter Spreadsheets -- In development - Page 99

Cheeky · 02/13/08, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by Opostrophe

Am I right in assuming that v 42 and back use v 43's 'Castsequence' logic for building shot rotations?

Making my shot rotations in v 43, and I notice that a hand-weaved or Spam 1:1.X (Multi & Arcane) rotation results in a ~80 DPS gain over Castsequence, and thereby a ~20 dps gain over 1:1 (Prio) for my cookie-cutter BM + Wolfslayer setup.

Does this seem wrong to anyone else?

Also possibly related, I notice that theres not a single Multishot in my Hand-weaved/Spam 1:1.X rotation, even though I have selected Multi (Yes) for the rotation. Multi-shot does however appear in the rotation if I use the Castsequence setting.

Yes, the rotations built in v42- are the same as Castsequence macros in v43. I needed a way to distinguish when the Hunter would have to wait for server confirmation to cast the next step and also to allow for the spam and handwoven rotations where you can recover the GCD during Auto Shot's cast. This was the best I was able to come up with.

Those types of gains are what have been seen in the testing done. I know that moving from a hand-timed rotation to the 3:2 macro was a very slight upgrade for me, but others who went from the same rotation but using a /castsequence macro saw huge gains with the 3:2 macro.

The logic of the 1:1.X rotation is to pick the best non-Steady special available based on cooldowns. If both Arcane and Multi are available and Arcane does more damage that should get picked. Try scaling down your rank of Arcane to lower it's damage (or decrease target armor to pump up Multi's damage) and see how that affects results. Without knowing the timing differences in your setup in picking Castsequence versus Hand-timed I can't say why there is a difference, but I'd check the GCD behavior and times each shot is available (can be seen in the shot rotation matrix in the wall of numbers everyone ignores.)

Opostrophe · 02/13/08, 2:50 PM

Originally Posted by Cheeky

The logic of the 1:1.X rotation is to pick the best non-Steady special available based on cooldowns. If both Arcane and Multi are available and Arcane does more damage that should get picked. Try scaling down your rank of Arcane to lower it's damage (or decrease target armor to pump up Multi's damage) and see how that affects results.

But surely multi is available when arcane is still on cooldown... What I'm saying is that there isn't a single multi-shot in all 50 lines. Even stranger is that this is only when I have selected 'hand-weaved' or 'Spam'; Multi-shots are there when I choose 'Castsequence'. Why would a timing difference make multi-shot a more or less attractive shot to use?

Originally Posted by Cheeky

Without knowing the timing differences in your setup in picking Castsequence versus Hand-timed I can't say why there is a difference, but I'd check the GCD behavior and times each shot is available (can be seen in the shot rotation matrix in the wall of numbers everyone ignores.)

I'll start looking there and see if I can figure something out.

P.S. Thanks so much for your work on the spreadsheet and elsewhere researching hunter shot mechanics! Your efforts are an invaluable resource for all serious raiding hunters.

binky · 02/13/08, 3:43 PM

OK....I have ruminated over this a while before posting. Using the current version of the spreadsheet (43), I appear to gain considerable DPS specing 2/5 Mortal shots and 5/5 imp Arcane shot. I would be using a 1:1.5 ratio. Help!

Zulia · 02/13/08, 3:51 PM

The [Ancient Sin'dorei Longbow] was renamed [Ancient Amani Longbow] in a recent patch. Noticed it when the spreadsheet's Load From Armory feature told me my character was using a weapon that didn't exist.

Cheeky · 02/13/08, 3:53 PM

Originally Posted by binky

OK....I have ruminated over this a while before posting. Using the current version of the spreadsheet (43), I appear to gain considerable DPS specing 2/5 Mortal shots and 5/5 imp Arcane shot. I would be using a 1:1.5 ratio. Help!

I could see that being true if you had a pretty low crit rate, but without knowing all the settings you selected I couldn't say for sure if it was a bug, or the truth.

Take a look around the Calculations tab for shot damages and the Shot Rotation for shot frequency. If you find anything that just looks off, post the details here and we can figure out if I've fucked up someplace in the calculations. (Bonus points if you find the bug and propose a solution!)

binky · 02/13/08, 5:34 PM

Originally Posted by Cheeky

I could see that being true if you had a pretty low crit rate, but without knowing all the settings you selected I couldn't say for sure if it was a bug, or the truth.

Take a look around the Calculations tab for shot damages and the Shot Rotation for shot frequency. If you find anything that just looks off, post the details here and we can figure out if I've fucked up someplace in the calculations. (Bonus points if you find the bug and propose a solution!)

My buffed crit rate is 36.96. The talents chosen were cookie cutter BM raid 41/20/0 with the exception of 5/5 Imp Arcane shot and 2/5 Mortal shots. Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft. The shot rotation is Auto-Steady-Auto-Steady-Arcane (1:1.5). All of the shot damages reflected the lowered critical strike damage bonus.

The shot frequency changed however. Auto shot frequency with 2/5 Imp Arcane shot is 2.71. With 5/5 Imp Arcane shot, it went down to 2.44. I assume this is due to the reduced CD of Arcane shot. Also, with 5/5 Imp Arcane shot, it takes me 48.71 seconds to achieve 50 shots. With 2/5 it takes 54.11 seconds.

God!!!! I hope I am not blathering! The DPS gain is around 20: not "huge" but a gain none the less.

Cheeky · 02/13/08, 5:52 PM

Originally Posted by binky

My buffed crit rate is 36.96. The talents chosen were cookie cutter BM raid 41/20/0 with the exception of 5/5 Imp Arcane shot and 2/5 Mortal shots. Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft. The shot rotation is Auto-Steady-Auto-Steady-Arcane (1:1.5). All of the shot damages reflected the lowered critical strike damage bonus.

The shot frequency changed however. Auto shot frequency with 2/5 Imp Arcane shot is 2.71. With 5/5 Imp Arcane shot, it went down to 2.44. I assume this is due to the reduced CD of Arcane shot. Also, with 5/5 Imp Arcane shot, it takes me 48.71 seconds to achieve 50 shots. With 2/5 it takes 54.11 seconds.

God!!!! I hope I am not blathering! The DPS gain is around 20: not "huge" but a gain none the less.

It sounds like the increased frequency is overcoming the damage decrease.

Do you regenerate the entire rotation with 2/5 vs. 5/5 IAS? (I assume you are using the 1:1.X rotation button.)

binky · 02/13/08, 6:05 PM

Originally Posted by Cheeky

It sounds like the increased frequency is overcoming the damage decrease.

Do you regenerate the entire rotation with 2/5 vs. 5/5 IAS? (I assume you are using the 1:1.X rotation button.)

I am on a Mac....I have never been able to get the "buttons" to work. I entered the rotations manually. I am looking at 2 different spreadsheets (one for 5/5 IAS and the other 2/5). The rotations are identical. The mana used is identical. The number of shots is identical. It is only the duration that is different. I think that means I regenerate the entire rotation. Is that what you mean?

Daenerys · 02/13/08, 6:36 PM

I'm getting an error when I try to download today's Cheeky update. I can get the OO version fine, but I'd prefer to use the Excel version. I have an older version that works just fine. Anyone else having issues with the newest version (v.43)?

Flouyd · 02/13/08, 6:44 PM

(Sry for my English I'm from Germany)

Ok I think I found a few flaws in the new shot rotation calculation

If I understand correctly with the castsquence option my lag is added to each SS because I have to wait for the server to confirm I’m done with my auto shot. That makes sense. But in the sheet I always wait 0,2 sec even when I shouldn't. For example:

-Steady starts 0,0 (GCD ready @ 1,5)
-Auto ends 1,3
-next Steady starts 1,7 (<-- this should be 1,5 because my client already knew I’m ready for my next SS and I shouldn't wait another 0,2 sec)

Another thing I notice is that the "castsequence-lag" is also added to arcane and multishot in the 1:1.x rotation. But I think those rotation doesn’t use /castsequence for arcane and multi. They are using /castrandom to wave in their shots so it would be more accurate to only add the "castsequence-lag" to the SS in those rotations

Rawman · 02/14/08, 8:34 AM

I'm not sure if it's just me but I can't click the buttons in the spreadsheet. Save profile, import, etc.

Is it supposed to be like that?

Ikuzo · 02/14/08, 8:42 AM

Originally Posted by Daenerys

I'm getting an error when I try to download today's Cheeky update. I can get the OO version fine, but I'd prefer to use the Excel version. I have an older version that works just fine. Anyone else having issues with the newest version (v.43)?

yes i have this issue as well. it reads my gear from armory just fine but it doesn't calculate any of the attributes.

Edit: it seems it had something to do with my shoulder enchant (Greater Inscription of Vengeance). i selected another one and then reselected the correct enchant (Vengeance) and it worked fine.

Jander · 02/14/08, 8:45 AM

Base Mana Spring Gives 50 MP/5 since 2.2; still showing as 30 in the spreadsheet.

Mana Spring Totem - Spells - World of Warcraft

Can be talented for more.

Cheeky · 02/14/08, 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by Rawman

I'm not sure if it's just me but I can't click the buttons in the spreadsheet. Save profile, import, etc.

Is it supposed to be like that?

What version are you using (OO or normal)?

What application are you using to view it?

If it is Excel, have you changed security settings to allow macros?

Did you think of using the search feature on these forums or look through some of the recent thread pages to find the multiple other times this question has been asked?

Groznar · 02/14/08, 10:55 AM

FYI - As Phaedryn pointed out, I think there's a problem with the buff profiles. You can rename them on the settings tab, but on the buffs tab if you try to use the drop down to change the buff profile to load or create a new one, the drop down is still protected.