Kerouan

I'm in the situation where my play time does not match 90% of my guildmember's play time, so have found myself soloing more often than not. I played around with protection and retribution, but have found that Holy works best for my play style by far.

As a fairly casual player, I have put together a list of gear I am going for, sort of a pre-raid holy damage soloing set. I have not collected all of this yet, but most of the items are fairly easy to obtain quest or faction rewards, so it shouldn't be too hard. Not sure how much interested there wil be in this, but thought I would share.

I know it has sword/board listed, but I mainly use an Oathkeeper for soloing. And this is with 40 pts into holy for the 35% int bonus to spell damage, with a level 70 dwarf.

 

Sandoz

Don't know if anything of this sort has been posted yet, and I haven't got time to read through the responses here at work. However, I'll share a little treatise I wrote up during Naxx (hence level 60 spell ranks) that crunches a few numbers in terms of Spellcrit versus MP/5 on Paladins.

I saw that a particular Paladin on our server (I won't name names) was going WAY out of his way to dig up spell crit that wasn't doing him as much good as he probably thought it was. We're talking, like...Eye of Diminution, etc.

Assume a Paladin is chain casting rank 7 Flash of Light at 140 mana per cast. He hits his heal every cooldown perfectly, casting 40 Flashes of Light in 60 seconds.

40 FoL at 140 mana apiece: 40 x 140 = 5600 mana.

One percent of spellcrit in this situation will restore an assumed average of 56 mana in one minute.

In one minute, there are 12 ticks of your MP/5 cycle.
56 / 12 = 4.6 MP/5 per spellcrit (on average).

All this is assuming you're chaincasting Flash of Light (rare) and never miss a beat (even rarer). The average MP/5 per spellcrit is realistically lower. 4.6 MP/5 is far easier to dig up than 1% spellcrit, I believe you'll find. Don't overvalue it, as novel as it may seem.

Obviously for Holy Light, the average MP/5 per spellcrit is much more favorable, as Holy Light is less efficient and awards much more mana returned for spellcrits. I'll save you the math, but if you chain cast rank IX Holy Light for a minute (nigh impossible, mind you - that's 15840 mana), each spellcrit is worth an average of 13.2 MP/5. Being that we don't cast it as often, this can be misleading and I've listed it second, respectively.

Ok, so let's assume you're alternating a bit between Holy Light and Flash of Light, working in 9 Holy Lights and 25 Flashes of Light in 60 seconds (again, nigh impossible mana-wise; again assuming you never miss a beat). Saving you the math, the average MP/5 per spellcrit is 7.87. Not shabby, but keep in mind that this kind of chain casting requires a mountain of mana that no Paladin in this guild has (9440) - these numbers are for loose reference, not hard calculations you can count on.

The advantage of spellcrit is that it's instant mana, as opposed to MP/5 which takes time to add up to anything. So, in conclusion: value spellcrit, but realize that it's not as powerful as it may seem. It's still based on a roll of the die and can't be counted on for extended fights like MP/5 can.

 

vorda

My FoL r7 is 180 mana

 

Ragnor

Yes its higher now, at 60 the max rank was 140

 

Warpony

After building up my +spelldmg to an "ok" level i've rly never looked back towards ret.

Yesterday i specced 41/13/7 and i'm liking it alot.

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...00000000000000

Holy talents speaks for themselves i assume. I did pick up DI, which i havent done before, and i'm actually liking it.

(Just some math following. Skip if your not interested).

15s of DI. I'll compare casting 8 FoL vs 5 HL (Max ranked) to get some spread. Yes, you can cram more heals in, but in a realistic scenario you don't heal all the time, or you can't.

I'll assume 1 crit in both scenarios (I'm at 16% crit for FoL and what, 22 for HL).

8 FoL's with 1 crit = Saves 720 mana
5 HL's with 1 crit = Saves 2100 mana.

mp5 conversion (Just the mana saved / 36 (180s /5 to get amount of ticks)

If using FoL while you have DI = 20 mp5
If using HL while you have DI = 58,3 mp5

Between 20 and 60 mp5 for a 41p talent? Might not be all that, but i'll take it as an added bonus rather then 1p more in rightous fury.

And as with cooldowns this is worst case scenario. That is, calculations are based on popping it, then fighting 3 mins. So it's correct if a fight is 3, 6, 9, 12 mins and so on. If not, you'll gain more MP5.

(Did this math quick now while at work. If there's errors, feel free to point out.)

I don't think discussing healing is all that important. If your a competent pally you know how to heal, and if you got a guild without retards they know you can heal too.

Concerning Soloing and PvP:

No, we're not gonna be the best 1vs1 class. Live with it. But we can make atleast a competent opponent. With my +640 spelldmg i can force Shock crits for 1500+, and JoR crits around the same. Combined with Stun, shields, high armor, second interrupt (BE) and 16 seconds BoF we make pretty tough opponents. Rogues and Warriors aren't a problem at all. The rest of the classes we atleast have a chanse against (Oki, don't try Oomkin druids or Warlocks. They hurt.) if you play smart.

Solofarming just gets better with more +spelldmg. My SoR with my 1.8spelldmg wpn hits for 196 (i think) and white hits for ~80. So about 280 per hit. Add in R3 Concecration for ~100dps and then Judging for close to 1000 (without crit) every 8th second, and Shock usually for round 1000 every 15th. (Judging crusader first ofc)

Barring crits i guess my DPS is about:
155 (White + SoR)
100 (Concetrate)
125 (JoR every 8th sec)
66 (Shock every 15th)
=
446 DPS.

Nothing godlike, but it's not such a bad number for a character mostly built for Healing.

I was farming Water elementals last night, and in the area was a warlock from the guild. In the time i pulled in 50 motes of water he did about 60-65... (Farmed about 50-60 mins).

I'm very happy with the soloing, grouping and pvping atm and i'm not missing Ret at all to be perfectly honest.

 

vorda

I hope this is not misplaced here, but I could use some advice on my talent build:

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...00000000000000
Fairly certain about the holy talents I have, altough I doubt the usefullness of aura mastery, but not that certain about my prot/ret and leftover points.

I am main healer in kara, but wouldnt mind doing some small offtanking or instance tanking aswell.

Another question for the long term palas: what situation would you use (imp) right fury when you'r mainly healing?

 

• goss

I'd get Toughness over Redoubt and drop the last 3 points in Blessed Life (then it matches my holy build )

Yes, I usually do have Fury up while healing, and usually end up being 2nd to the tank on threat, which is (generally) a pretty good thing. Be a little careful with it on pulls, the threat generated is fairly impressive, and if you're the first (or only) person to land a big heal, you can irrecovably yank it off the tank (once you start healing yourself, your threat generation goes up further, no innate paladin reduction for self heals).

 

• frmorrison

Is that right? I know Pally's had threat reduction on their heals (which was orginally created so Pallys could not heal tank). So the extra reduction is only on heals on others?

 

• goss

I do not have the original source for where I read this (I believe it was somewhere on these boards), but as I understand it all subtlety like talents/abilities in regards to healing only apply to heals on others, heals to yourself get the full threat value.

 

◊ Shalas

For comparison, Meditation gives me about 25 mp5 while healing for 3 points instead of 1, and it's generally considered one of our better talents. My paladin isn't high enough to try it yet, but DI seems like a significantly underrated ability.

 

Athinira

Are you alliance or horde paladin?

If alliance: Seal of Vengeance is excellent for grinding and i love it.

If you are horde: Spec SoC or try out with Seal of Blood.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=aVxhMgzhestVMphM

This is my favorite PvP healer build. Swap Stoicism for 10 second CD reduction on HoJ if you like (i personally find dispels a larger PvP issue, and stun resists helps as well).

Moderator and Organizer on The Druid Wiki
http://druid.wikispaces.com
The Druid Wiki is currently outdated and is scheduled for a major WotLK overhaul. If you are looking for information on druids, i would suggest browsing these forums for now.

 

vorda

It would be very illogical if it worked like this for paladins though, as our native treath modifier is exactly there to disable heal tanking afaik. That being said, I have absolutely no data on it

@athinira: as my profile says, I'm horde paladin (and very dissapointed by SoB). I have considered imp SoC, but it just doesnt seem to be worth 5 talent points with all the other good talents. I'll probably give it a shot anyway, my respec cost is still only 35

 

Hausnfranz

Something I think works well for PvP and support in instances / raids :

39/11/11

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...00000000000000

Instant dmg from Seal of Command, nice buff with BoK and then lots of heal / shocking. First go at a pally for me, maybe too spread out though?

 

• Amera

Really no point in getting SoC unless you are going to gear and spec for it. Could stop at Imp judgment or just dumb those points into prot for some survivability

 

Shallistra

After having it for so long I'm actually wondering if Redoubt is really that much better than Improved Devotion Aura for our utility in anything beyond normal level 70 instancing. Most of the time when I'm healing I am wishing I could lay on even a nominal amount of extra armor for my group members should things get a bit out of hand in a raid or heroic. Redoubt shines when you have high shield block/tanking gear + non-casting state, and as someone that operates 95% of the time as a healer/support role I find myself seeing very little benefit out of it. Generally if something is agro on me it is CC'd by myself or a group member almost immediately if not before, and if it doesn't i'm not gonna sit there thinking "Hey, redoubt proc'd so I can block 109 out of the 2000 damage per hit i'm taking. Let's take advantage of that and stop healing." I could say the same for its PvP viability.

The bonus armor provided by the talented Devotion Aura is pretty nominal, but it helps far more than Redoubt does, especially when you're in situations where every little bit counts.

 

zeidrich

You're ignoring that your block also means that that 2000 point hit doesn't become a 4000 point crit or a 3000 point crushing blow. If you're being hit, chances are you should probably stop casting anyways unless vitally important, as if someone's trying to pull off you you don't want to be generating more threat.

Though it's obvious if you're never hit redoubt doesn't help you.

 

Cathela

That's only true if the 30% block from redoubt is enough to push all normal hits off the table and start chewing into the crit/crush space. You'd need greater than 50% base avoidance for that, which you aren't going to achieve in healing gear.

My comrades are my weapons, and I am their shield.

 

Astinus

Hello all,

I am having trouble healing in raid encounters and I am in need of your advice. My guild is currently running Karazhan and I am one of the main healers. From the information I have gathered in the various paladin threads It seems a majority of you are using spam Rank 4 Holy Light. While this does keep the MT and OT alive while taking on soft hitting mobs it isn't nearly enough for sustained healing versus hard hitters.

My important stats for this discussion:

+921 healing
50m/5 while casting
9288 mana.
16.43% Crit w/ Holy Power
22.43% Crit w/ Holy Light

I realize these numbers are on the low end and I am working hard to improve them.

What math are you guys using to determine what rank heal would be best for you? A paladin friend in another guild uses Rank 8 holy light. Another uses Rank 5. It's obvious that a paladin with a lot more +healing them me would be able to get away with a lower rank holy light. What's the formula to figure this out.

When does Flash of Light come into play. Spamming max rank FoL spam doesn't keep them alive during hard hitting mobs. I end up going into crisis mode using Rank 11 Holy Light to try and recover and thus ruining my mana efficiency.

What tactics are you guys using for healing on boss fights in raids? My old main character was a Hunter so I never had to heal anybody. I am new to healing but have been doing ok. I just want to be a lot better.

I didn't think the Paladin TBC Talents/Spec Discussion was the right place for this as this is not a question on Talents or Spec and more of a question about how to efficiently and successfully heal in raids.

 

Myul

Well, since the patch with the downrank penality it's only a question of your preferance, getting rank x or y.

hl r5
[[552+[921(+heal amount)+580(blessing)]*0.714(casttime coeffizient)*0.514(dr-penality)]]*1.12(talent)=1235
4.49 hpm
494 hps (w/o light's grace)
617 hps (with light's grace)

hl r9
[[999+[921(+heal amount)+580(blessing)]*0.714(casttime coeffizient)*0.743(dr-penality)]]*1.12(talent)=2010
4.32 hpm
804 hps (w/o light's grace)
1005 hps (with light's grace)

Ofc the lower the rank and the higher your +heal the more your hpm increases (by very little steps), but your hps drops significantly.

fol r7
[[475+[921(+heal amount)+185(blessing)]*0.429(casttime coeffizient)*1.0(dr-penality)]]=949
5.27 hpm
632 hps

More hps, more hpm then r5, but 6% less crit you may include, too. But let's check hl r11, it isn't that bad as you may think, imho.

hl r11
[[2321+[921(+heal amount)+580(blessing)]*0.714(casttime coeffizient)*1.0(dr-penality)]]*1.12(talent)=3800
4.52 hpm
1520 hps (w/o light's grace)
1900 hps (with light's grace)

Only the overheal from hl r11 may ruin your hpm, but as you can see it's better in hpm then his lower friends (cruel downrank penality!)

hl r4 is 4.47 hpm @ 339/424 hps.
hl r3 should be around 5 hpm, but it's trained under level 20, so you have to add the "haha, its learned under level 20 penality" as well :/

 

Fiola

The spreadsheet in this thread might help you a little for finding useful ranks of your various heals with your current gear:
Overen/Solipse's Updated Pally Sheet


I personally use 4 heals: Max rank FoL for good efficiency/decent healing (but not enough for someone taking heavy damage, as you've noted), the next lower rank of FoL, which has better efficiency with slightly lower healing power. Then I have a Rank 8/9 HL, which trades a bit of efficiency for a bit more healing power, and my max rank HL for maximum healing power.

(Note that I'm assuming that your target has BoL, which greatly boosts the power/efficiency of downranked heals)

The basic idea is that you have 4~5 heal spells, ranked by healing power. That should be the reverse order of healing spells sorted by efficiency. (ie: We trade healing power for efficiency - high efficiency heals have low power, high power heals have low efficiency, and there are in-between spells that have medium efficiency, medium power )

When healing and trying to maximize efficiency, I try to use the lowest rank heal I can get away with - which would also be the highest efficiency spell that I can use. This is my basic strategy for maximizing my healing endurance.



As for healing strategies, do you use any UI mods?

When healing, I think it is essential that you can see the actual amount of lost HP of your target, and to have some mod like SCT that will report any overhealing. If you know your target is missing 2000 hp, then you'll know you want to aim for a heal that delivers roughly 2k hp (more if yo know the target will take more damage, less if you have plenty of time to heal that damage). Combine this with the overhealing report of SCT, and that will help boost your efficiency (and thus endurance).

The next step after that is to start anticipating damage and pre-casting, which boosts the effective power of your heals. (If I can guess my tank will take X damage in 2 seconds, I can start a heal that will heal X damage in 2.5 seconds, instead of waiting for the damage to happen before starting a heal)

 

Myul

Check math above, blessings scales the same way other +healing does afaik. If not, noone would use high rank spells that much, because lower ranks may outperform 'em on hpm by ridiculus high amount.
Your highest hl spell ist one of the most efficiency spells and the most powerful compared to the damage your raid/assigned tank may receive in tbc content. FoL ist the even more efficiency, but lack power. You only need to downrank if you need a avarge power, average efficiency heal for some harm where fol wouldn't fix it all and max rank hl would overheal just more than a bit.

So you got a 2.5s (2.0s) 4k heal, a 1.5s 1k heal and now you need a 2k and maybe a 3k heal (regardingless hpm, hps should fit into the middle between max fl and max hl) and everything should be solved You are allready the best hps/hpm single target healer in the game and have imbalumination, so just grab those lower heals when you need them.

Just to compare end game stuff:
Shaman (1500 heal, hw applied with 3/3 healing way, full resto) 4570 hp healed 1828 hps 6.68 hpm (no 4/5 t5 yet ~~)
Paladin (1500 heal, hl with light's grace & blessing applied, full holy) 4300 hp healed 2150 hps 5.11 hpm (lol need 4/5 t5 to push hps even further more)
Priest (1500 heal, gh with 5/5 empowered healing, holy/disc biatch) 4600 hp healed 1840 hps 6.56 hpm
Drood (1500 heal, ht with 2/2 empowered touch, balance/resto) 5230 hp healed 1745 hps 6.9 hpm

Yes, hl has a really low hpm, but with your 30-35% critrate (other's may reach 15%), it's allmost no problem to stay on top, as your hps is ~ 15% higher then the others, to.

Conclusion:
Use feral druids, elemental/enhance shamans, shadowpriests and a full boat of holy palas, because tinbot owns :/

 

Fiola

Are you trying to tell me that my ability works a certain way, since that would be most logical to you?


BoL has always had full effect on post-L20 spells.
Testing just now:
FoL R1 @ 362 +heal. BoLight R3 adds 185 to FoL.
w/o BoL: 153~164
w/ BoL: 359~364

That's a gain of around 200 per cast due to BoL. That's more than expected because of Healing Light, which works post +heal, BoL. Likewise, HL R4 received the full BoL benefit pre TBC, and I haven't seen any data to suggest otherwise. (Mine hits for 1.4k in healing gear + BoL, which is way too high to be accounted for by +healing alone)



Though that's a good point about aiming for certain size heals. The lowest rank heal should heal for at least 1k hp (anything below that, and either you're not doing enough healing per second for the damage taken, or your party/raid has way too much healing for the encounter.) and then aim for a 2~k, 3~k, and max power heal.

 

Myul