• Snowy

I mix in a fair amount of SW:D's myself. However Spellsurge hasn't really been something I considered seriously yet since nobody in my party has been running out of mana in Karazhan even in a fairly long fight like the Prince. I'm even hard pressed to run out of mana, and that's without a shaman or pally. Once in a while, I might have to pot, but that's about it. Spellsurge, IMO, would be ideal for a fight like Patchwerk where you're looking to truly optimize mana regen for your party. I just don't see those fights here yet. Adding to a total mana pool is fairly pointless if you don't go through it all.

Also eventually the debate will be Soulfrost vs Spellsurge! (at least for shadow priests)

Benefactors' Bar, where you get free English lessons:

 

◊ Malan

Ok so back to Battlemaster, has anyone gotten any reliable proc rate data from DWing it?

Vyktianity already has over 75 billion followers. The first verse in his book "Gift of the Wild" is "In the beginning Vyk cast lifebloom and then maul."

 

poidz

bump re: any concrete information on procrate (either single weapon or DWing) and also threat generation mechanics

 

Triton

I'm surprised that there's no solid information on Battlemaster's proc rate / threat generation yet. My raid is pushing me to get it on my MH dagger but I get the feeling that a single Battlemaster enchant on one weapon in the entire melee group isn't going to amount to much.

 

Ultramax

The anecdotal evidence of the only person in our guild to get it was enough to convince us to never waste void crystals on it again.

 

• Kerruul

Our MT got it for his King's Defender. He loves it to death and claims to get constant procs. (And SWStats confirms pretty decent amount of effective healing for an enchant.) I can't back up threat generation with numbers, but it seemed like he had a noticeably bigger threat lead after getting the enchant. (As a relatively high DPS member of our raid I think I've got a pretty good feel for a tank's threat potential.)

YMMV

 

◊ Malan

Well I have 2 people in my guild that can make this now and we have mats almost compiled for 3-4 enchants of it, so I'll be getting it soon. I'll do the leg work of finding some proc rates, but the old mod procwatch hasn't been updated. Can someone fill me in with what al the kids these days are using to track procs?

 

poidz

posted about procwatch in the Wowforums and Crime from Malorne replied

it works a treat

 

Suesse

I'd love to see a real threat generation test. Perhaps grab one of those unkillable mobs from the blasted lands, get two people, use ktm, see where you should pull and where you actually do, note the number of procs.

 

◊ Malan

Ok I have battlemaster on my Big Bad Wolf Paw as of today, and procwatch installed.
However, I suck at RegEx and have no idea what I need to have it "watch" in order to track the proc. (In fact I can't get it watch ANYTHING, which leads me to believe I'm stupid or the mod is broken) Can someone fill me in on what I should have procwatch track?

Just from my observations - after Curator I reset SW stats and we cleared to the chess event. In an all melee group, with my Battlemaster being the only enchant, battlemaster healed the group for 40k and LotP healed *me* for 60k. Doesn't seem too shabby to me.

Edit - sw_stats says it proc'd 33 times in 738 white hits during a farming session, making it roughly a 5% proc... or much much lower if it can proc of WF or SS (which it doesn't appear to)

 

poidz

best way to monitor procs with procwatch is to check your combat log (which procwatch basically works off) after combat where the proc has gone off.

Scroll through the text and input (case sensitive) what the combat log says when the enchant procs. my guess would be something along the lines of "Battlemaster heals you for" but thats just speculation

you can leave the end off because the size of the heals would vary

 

Thebeat

So it healed for that much and you never pulled aggro from it? If so then I'd consider getting it for my offhand.

 

◊ Malan

Well I pulled aggro but it had nothing to do with the enchant.
During trash mobs I'd only see it go off once or twice, not nearly often enough that I'd be flooded with threat.

 

poidz

another idea to see if it generates threat is to get a friendly tank to pull 2 mobs and wail on the same mob the tank is so to leave the other mob untapped. if the untapped mob switches to you when the proc goes off it does generate threat (probably using the formula stated earlier in the thread), if it stays on the tank (which originally pulled the mob) then it doesn't (i guess :P)

 

Kink

Thats a good idea.

Don't forget that it heals the group though. there is a good chance the proc itself does not cause any extra threat, but the heal does. I would also think it very likely that the extra threat works similar to PoM, in that the person getting healed gains that threat.

i.e. do the test above grouped with the warrior, and then repeat it not-grouped.

Several tests need to be done in fact.

Grouped tests warrior pulls two mob (mobA and MobB), you both only hit MobA wait until a proc goes off, both players should be in aggro range of both mobs, you shouldnt have to worry about the 10% threat threshold to pull aggro off the tank as the tank has basically 0 threat on the non tanked mob(assuming we use a shaman as the proc weapon holder):

1) Wait for a proc (ensure warrior gets a bigger heal from it than the shaman), does mobB aggro the shaman? then proc causes aggro and assigns it to the shaman if not, it is not yet clear how it works. Go to (3)

2) Wait for a proc (ensure shaman gets a bigger heal from it than the tank), does mobB aggro the shaman? then proc causes aggro and assigns it to the shaman, if not the act of "proccing" and its healing effect causes the shaman no extra threat, or at least so little threat that the heal on the warrior out threatted it (new word!). go to (3)

3)Wait for a proc with both the shaman and warrior not at full hp. Ensure the warrior gets a bigger heal. Does MobB aggro the shaman? If so the proc EFFECTs threat is assigned to the shaman 100%. If the mob stays on the warrior then the proc assigns the heal threat to each person who is effectively healed.

Those are 3 basic tests, there are more but thats enough in my opinion to get a good idea of how its working. If it turns out that it works as in example 3 above, then I would assume the heal based threat works as normal heal based threat does. You can also repeat the above tests with the shaman gaining more effective healing from the proc, only really possible if you can find mobs that will do tiny amounts of damage to your tank though.

There is light at the end of the tunnel.
The only problem is, it's often an incoming train.

 

heel

I'm trying to do some math on how well spellsurge scales if multiple people in the party use it . . . does anyone know how high the spellsurge proc can stack? What's the highest anyone has seen?

 

◊ Malan

Unless I'm doing something very wrong, procwatch is either broken or can't seem to watch the battlemaster proc. I told it watch for: "Your Battlemaster (.+) heals you" with the (.+) wildcard there to catch the times that it crit heals. (Btw, did you guys know it can crit?)
According to the documentation that came with the mod I shouldn't need to put anything at the trail end, but I've also tried adding a (.+) wildcard to the end of it. Both ways after 10 min of combat and probably 20 or more procs, it keeps saying it only proc'd once.

One other observation is that when it procs, everyone gets healed for varying amounts, it doesn't heal everyone for the same value.

 

ntagg

I believe that the pattern "Your Battlemaster (.+) heals you" requires at least two spaces between "battlemaster" and "heals". It works only in the case of critical heals, because there is a space before "critically" and another after that. However the non-critical procs look like "Your Battlemaster heals you" and the single space cannot be matched by the " (.+) " portion of the pattern.

Try setting the string to watch for to "Your Battlemaster(.+)heals you" - this should force the (.+) metasymbol to evaluate either to " " or to " critically ".

 

falynx

I got this enchant this week and have been raiding KZ with it. It procs ~2x (rough observation counting procs/min while farming...hey...have to do something to keep from falling asleep while farming) per minute using it on OH only. I'll try to get some real data up from KZ after we go back in this weekend.

 

• frmorrison

All healing effects can crit (based on your spell crit rate), getting a crit 4500 healthstone is nice. When grinding the 1up mushrom crits for 360 health (this is with 20% more healing buff).

It makes sense that the enchant does different healing amounts, since the item description has a varience in it.

 

◊ Malan

Yah as I said, I'm a noob when it comes to RegEx. (Horrible considering I'm about to leave the army to work as a software engineer ) I'll give this a shot today and post my findings assuming it works.

 

• goss

I'm debating trying spellsurge as well - does anybody have any experience/anecdotes with the enchant? Can't search the forums at the moment, so sort of thrashing around looking for some pointers.

 

◊ Malan

Ok just got done testing battlemaster.

Ran the test on the unkillable mobs in blasted lands.
Battlemaster enchant on the MH only, Big Bad Wolf Paw, 2.6 speed with WindFury 5.
Offhand is the Blackout Truncheon, no enchant with WindFury 4.

Edit - popped Bloodlust twice during this if anyone cares.

Attached Images

 

 

• Nite_Moogle

Since Flurry can really screw up the main hand/off hand timing interaction and I doubt I am alone in wanting to figure out your ratio of mainhand:offhand attacks, it might be better to do the test with a shield out.

 

◊ Malan

Shit. I didn't even think about that.
Be back in 15 min with another screenshot.