Elitist Jerks
Register
Blogs
Chat
Forums
New Posts


Go Back   Elitist Jerks > Public Discussion > Class Mechanics

Welcome to Elitist Jerks
If this is your first visit, please be sure to check out the FAQ and the forum rules. Users must register to post and new registrations are subject to a one day "mute" period to get acquainted with the community. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Reply
 
LinkBack (13) Thread Tools
Old 02/23/07, 6:42 PM   #51 (permalink)
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Proudmoore
just of note you dont really need to input text or arguments to critically heal or just normal either since you're only testing the amount of procs. unless other group members heals are also in your combat log ("your battlemaster heals playernotyou for 222") you could probably get away with "Your Battlemaster"
 
User is offline.
Reply With Quote
Old 02/23/07, 6:46 PM   #52 (permalink)
In the Beginning was the Command Line
 
Malan's Avatar
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Mal'Ganis
Ok here's the new data. This time I took WF off and had a shield in the offhand, so this was done with a 2.6 speed weapon.

Originally Posted by poidz View Post
you could probably get away with "Your Battlemaster"
I tried doing that and it wouldn't record any procs even though I would clearly see them going off.
Attached Images
 
 
User is offline.
Reply With Quote
Old 02/23/07, 7:36 PM   #53 (permalink)
Setting a bad example
 
Nite_Moogle's Avatar
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Mal'Ganis
Looks like the initial guess of "less than Crusader" is quite accurate. If you'd assume .75 PPM (which is probably generous given that Flurry was undoubtedly up at least some of the time) it's doing maybe 200 HP/min on the group off your white damage, and though Windfury and Stormstrike (or Slice & Dice) would crank that up quite a bit but even in the best of situations you're talking about maybe 2000-2500 HP in a minute spread across the group. It's by no means a trivial amount over a few hours of meleeing, but for any encounter where you'd want the proc from it to be going off it's going to be a drop in a pretty large bucket. Without the strength boosting side effect of Crusader I am not sure it's all that great of an enchant.
 
User is offline.
Reply With Quote
Old 02/23/07, 8:05 PM   #54 (permalink)
In the Beginning was the Command Line
 
Malan's Avatar
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Mal'Ganis
How does one determine if it is a true proc per min, or just a straight "chance to proc"?
 
User is offline.
Reply With Quote
Old 02/23/07, 8:16 PM   #55 (permalink)
Setting a bad example
 
Nite_Moogle's Avatar
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Mal'Ganis
Use different speeds of weapons. I'm sure you want to get an offhand enchant too right?
No, really, I think that we can deduce it's PPM from your first screenshot. If it's percentage based your second shot means it's only 3%, which is pretty horrible for obvious reasons. .75 PPM means that when you get some haste and free attacks rolling you'll see more procs per minute than that in actuality (since the PPM rate is based off your number of unhasted attacks per minute which does not include instant attacks either) and the percentages of hits to procs will no longer match up as your first screenshot displays. I am foggy about whether or not Procwatch counts offhand attacks since I only ever used it with two-handed weapons, but even if you have an equal-speed offhand the percentages don't quite match up.

If you really want to prove it just repeat the test using Windfury and Stormstrike. Your actual proc rate will probably be slightly higher, which would mean it's PPM based.

Last edited by Nite_Moogle : 02/23/07 at 8:24 PM.
 
User is offline.
Reply With Quote
Old 02/23/07, 8:18 PM   #56 (permalink)
In the Beginning was the Command Line
 
Malan's Avatar
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Mal'Ganis
yah soon as I replace all the prismatic shards from this one. my enchanter wasn't exactly happy to part with 8 at once. I was planning to wait till I got an 80 dps off hand, so not sure when I'll put it on the OH.
 
User is offline.
Reply With Quote
Old 02/23/07, 8:25 PM   #57 (permalink)
Setting a bad example
 
Nite_Moogle's Avatar
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Mal'Ganis
I did a lot of editing sorry You can prove it without needing a second weapon enchanted.
 
User is offline.
Reply With Quote
Old 03/02/07, 4:40 AM   #58 (permalink)
Tel
Don Flamenco
 
Night Elf Death Knight
 
Kazzak (EU)
Having had battlemaster for a week or two, and now got mongoose, I can happily say (completely anecdotally) that mongoose seems to proc ALOT more. I'm waiting for an offhand comparible to my Malchazeen before i get that enchanted, but im hearing good things about double proc stacking if you have it duel wielded. On a fast offhand like a sunblade, or in a muti build, I forsee this being by FAR the enchant of choice.
 
User is offline.
Reply With Quote
Old 03/02/07, 10:54 AM   #59 (permalink)
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Warrior
 
Xavius (EU)
Battlemaster would have to proc ALOT to outdo mongoose as a tanking enchant, mongoose is practically up all the time, too imba.
 
User is offline.
Reply With Quote
Old 03/02/07, 1:09 PM   #60 (permalink)
Glass Joe
 
Orc Shaman
 
Daggerspine
where did you find a working procwatch?
 
User is offline.
Reply With Quote
Old 03/02/07, 1:15 PM   #61 (permalink)
Great Tiger
 
Emeraude's Avatar
 
Night Elf Warrior
 
Sargeras
For Warriors at least, Crusader has no true heir, heh. Savagery is nice mind you.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=CX81UJZ8
For the lurking Phoenix Wright faithful.
http://bloodragingirl.blogspot.com/
My own blog!
 
User is offline.
Reply With Quote
Old 03/02/07, 1:50 PM   #62 (permalink)
Von Kaiser
 
Human Priest
 
Dark Iron
Originally Posted by Tel View Post
Having had battlemaster for a week or two, and now got mongoose, I can happily say (completely anecdotally) that mongoose seems to proc ALOT more. I'm waiting for an offhand comparible to my Malchazeen before i get that enchanted, but im hearing good things about double proc stacking if you have it duel wielded. On a fast offhand like a sunblade, or in a muti build, I forsee this being by FAR the enchant of choice.
So jealous right now. It's good to see that your experience matches the theorycrafting on the rogue dps spreadsheet, and I'm anxiously awaiting some dual Mongoose action myself. By the way, were you having any threat issues with the heaing proc off Battlemaster?
 
User is offline.
Reply With Quote
Old 03/02/07, 1:54 PM   #63 (permalink)
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Warlock
 
<DPS>
Bloodscalp
Originally Posted by Emeraude View Post
For Warriors at least, Crusader has no true heir, heh. Savagery is nice mind you.
even for tanking?

I was under the assumption that Battlemaster is the best enchant for tanks. considering the extra threat generation from group heals.
 
User is offline.
Reply With Quote
Old 03/02/07, 1:55 PM   #64 (permalink)
In the Beginning was the Command Line
 
Malan's Avatar
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Mal'Ganis
I've only had Battlemaster on my main hand but its been there for about 2 weeks now, I'm fairly pleased with it. Generally at the end of the night its done 50% or more of the healing done by my individual LOTP procs. Granted that may not *seem* like much, but I figure it's extra healing that didn't cost mana and if more people in the group had it, or if I also had it on my offhand, it would probably be a very decent subsidy heal to the group to help relieve stress from the healers on non priority targets.
 
User is offline.
Reply With Quote
Old 03/02/07, 8:53 PM   #65 (permalink)
Don Flamenco
 
Gnome Rogue
 
Dragonmaw
Should I assume this is something that doesn't proc in Feral forms? I imagine it doesn't, but I hold a small glimmer of foolish, foolish hope.

JUICE! Aww I'm sorry. Did... did anyone want some juice?
 
User is offline.
Reply With Quote
Old 03/02/07, 10:09 PM   #66 (permalink)
mek
Don Flamenco
 
mek's Avatar
 
Troll Priest
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by stinkfot View Post
where did you find a working procwatch?
Somewhere in this thread!
 
User is offline.
Reply With Quote
Old 03/03/07, 1:31 AM   #67 (permalink)
Divine Protector
 
frmorrison's Avatar
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by stinkfot View Post
where did you find a working procwatch?
The proc watch people are using is the old pre 2.0 one but with an updated TOC file.

If you don't want to do that yourself, Curse has a version of Proc watch with the toc updated.
 
User is offline.
Reply With Quote
Old 03/03/07, 2:17 PM   #68 (permalink)
Waz
Glass Joe
 
Orc Warrior
 
Kel'Thuzad
Originally Posted by tbone47 View Post
even for tanking?

I was under the assumption that Battlemaster is the best enchant for tanks. considering the extra threat generation from group heals.
I would say Mongoose is the best enchant of tanking, it procs a lot and because of that you gain nearly 4% chance to crit for more threat, 4% to dodge, and I think 220 ac. Now assuming Battlemaster heals a group for 2500 in about a minute and I would have 4% dodge up for pretty much that whole minute. If I dodge one 8k hit I just out healed what Battlemaster could have done by a whole ton. Not to mention having more rage from getting some white crits, and more threat from doing more damage.
 
User is offline.
Reply With Quote
Old 03/03/07, 5:10 PM   #69 (permalink)
In the Beginning was the Command Line
 
Malan's Avatar
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Mal'Ganis
But you also lost out on the rage from the 8k hit... it's a give and take scenario.
 
User is offline.
Reply With Quote
Old 03/05/07, 8:02 AM   #70 (permalink)
Tel
Don Flamenco
 
Night Elf Death Knight
 
Kazzak (EU)
Originally Posted by Triton View Post
So jealous right now. It's good to see that your experience matches the theorycrafting on the rogue dps spreadsheet, and I'm anxiously awaiting some dual Mongoose action myself. By the way, were you having any threat issues with the heaing proc off Battlemaster?
Got my sunblade last night, duel wielding mongoose enchants now It does indeed double proc and the haste and agi stack. With a combat dagger spec (15/41/5) im seeing a HUGE amount of mongoose uptime. Will try and get procwatch working tonight and go check it out more throughly but from my brief testing last night, theres definatly a good degree of synergy between the haste procs/skills/enchants and combat potency. Im particularly looking forward to seeing how it works out with windfury and heroism thrown into the mix too.
 
User is offline.
Reply With Quote
Old 03/31/07, 10:35 AM   #71 (permalink)
Glass Joe
 
Human Priest
 
Hellscream (EU)
Am trying to see how often Spellsurge enchant is proccing (should be the same as Battlemaster I think) but to be sure I want to test it

the only problem I have is that it wont count the heals I do on which it can proc or any other spells.

So my ProcWatch of 1 fight is looking to something like this:
Hits: 0
Procs: 2


Any1 knows a way to let ProcWatch also count the spell hits/heals so I can provide some stats of it ? Or is there another mod already which is doing the same as ProcWatch but then for casters ?
 
User is offline.
Reply With Quote
Old 06/25/07, 11:00 PM   #72 (permalink)
Von Kaiser
 
Draenei Warrior
 
Stormscale
I just picked up 2 blinkstrikes, and am wondering for a 5vs5 arena, would a warrior be better with battlemaster to compliment healing? or do 1 battlemaster and 1 mongoose or 2x mongoose? I was originally planning on getting battlemasterx2 but after reading some threads I am now unsure
 
User is offline.
Reply With Quote
Old 06/26/07, 12:24 AM   #73 (permalink)
Piston Honda
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Kil'Jaeden
Originally Posted by Xtee View Post
I just picked up 2 blinkstrikes, and am wondering for a 5vs5 arena, would a warrior be better with battlemaster to compliment healing? or do 1 battlemaster and 1 mongoose or 2x mongoose? I was originally planning on getting battlemasterx2 but after reading some threads I am now unsure
Don't bother with the Battlemaster enchant. Had you read this thread, you'd realize that the proc will seldom occur, and much less often exactly when it could be helpful. Aside from that, the heal over time is not going to save your buddy when the other team's focussing him down in under 3 seconds. Especially with such a paltry HoT value.

Simply put, Battlemaster is a worthless enchant. By the way, do yourself and others a favor, and give/sell those Blinkstrikes to a rogue or 2. In 5v5 arena, you want to be dishing out hefty Mortal Strikes. 2-handed fury just doesn't provide the burst damage needed to bring down opponents in Arena.
 
User is offline.
Reply With Quote
Old 06/26/07, 2:33 AM   #74 (permalink)
Von Kaiser
 
Draenei Warrior
 
Stormscale
I Did read the thread, but that point aside I was simply wondering if they would become more viable if I was to go a spec with flurry, and swordspec and probably MS for the debuff. Also using the thundering skyfire meta gem, and having a shaman in my pvp group with windfury, all seem to make it much more. I find the point of mongoose to be a little moot, as it does not stack with flurry or so I read, although it stacking with its self is a positive. I just feel that a little more utility could be brought with enough factors to bring up the proc factor of BM.
 
User is offline.
Reply With Quote
Old 06/26/07, 9:51 AM   #75 (permalink)
In the Beginning was the Command Line
 
Malan's Avatar
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Xtee View Post
with enough factors to bring up the proc factor of BM.
You can't "bring up" the proc rate. Its a low proc rate, and its not suited for arena use. This is not a DPS enchant, if you want to do arenas I suggest you get Potency, Mongoose or Crusader.

Vyktianity already has over 75 billion followers. The first verse in his book "Gift of the Wild" is "In the beginning Vyk cast lifebloom and then maul."
 
User is offline.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Elitist Jerks > Public Discussion > Class Mechanics

Thread Tools

Similar Threads