Beat the 85

zork · 02/15/07, 11:58 AM

Hello

I brute forced into wowhead lately to beat my own little contest.
i want to reach the 85 on my dream-warrior.

this number contains:
enemy miss
my parry
my dodge
my block

here is the best i got so far:
http://ctprofiles.net/5076296

83,58

11 enemy miss
26,57 block
29,15 dodge
16,86 parry

still that are some very sick numbers. beating the 85 = crushing blows < 15%

p.s i hope ctprofiles doesn't suck to much in counting numbers. i will recheck them later.
p.p.s night elfs got one more dodge...eek, so the number is damn close, i understand now why we need 30agi for one dodge.

berg · 02/15/07, 12:06 PM

I have read conflicting things about crushing hits from bosses.

Is it possible to mitigate crushing to the extent you imply or do other things get pushed out of the way first?

Suesse · 02/15/07, 12:07 PM

Clearly you're trying to build a non-insane set, since you've added stamina enchants where you could have added agility and shield block rating. Is 12 agility really higher dodge than the +dodge enchant?

Edit: Also, it's too bad ctprofiles doesn't work with gems... might be able to push your avoidance a little higher with some epic gems that don't suck... opposed to just adding all 12 stamina gems everywhere avoiding socket bonuses which seems to be the popular thing to do.

zork · 02/15/07, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by berg

I have read conflicting things about crushing hits from bosses.
Is it possible to mitigate crushing to the extent you imply or do other things get pushed out of the way first?

well shield block does nothing else as adding some percentages to your block chance. you reach 100 with ease that way and pre-tbc there was no way to get crushed in defensive stance while shield block was active.

i think thats the same way it works till now.

Cryect · 02/15/07, 1:01 PM

I thought misses get pushed off before crushing?

Edit: Can't seem to find the priority I know someone listed before for the hit table.
Edit2: Ah NM yeah Miss is at the top for some reason was thinking it was at the bottom.

v3x · 02/16/07, 3:14 AM

Okay, I avoided entering everything into ctprofiles because of the lack of gems, and I took the head and shoulders enchants he used even though I'm not sure where they're from. This is going to be long, here's the list of gear:

Helm: Warbringer Greathelm [ 1080 Armor | +13 Str | +14 Agi | +47 Sta ] +21 Def Rat | +15 Block Rat | +33 BlockVal
(Tenacious Earthstorm Diamond - +12 Def Rat & Chance to Restore Health on Hit) (+8 Def Rat) **+4 Block Rat**
[+16 Def Rat | +17 Dodge Rat]

Neck: Strength of the Untamed [ +27 Sta ] +19 Def Rat | 18 Dodge Rat

Should: Warbringer Shoulderguards [ 997 Armor | +11 Str | +12 Agi | +34 Sta ] +14 Def Rat | +23 Dodge Rat
[15 Def Rat 10 Dodge rat] (+8 Dodge Rat) (+8 Defense Rat) *+3 Def Rat*

Cloak: Devilshark Cape [ 78 Armor | +22 Sta ] +20 Def Rating | +18 Dodge Rating [+12 Dodge Rat]

Chest: Warbringer Chestguard [1329 Armor | +14 Str | +14 Agi | +42 Sta ] +18 Def Rat | +18 Block Rating
[+6 Str | +6 Agi | +6 Sta ] (+8 Dodge Rat) (+8 Def Rat) (+8 Def Rat) *+4 Agi*

Bracer: Vambraces of Courage [555 Armor | +30 Sta ] +12 Def Rat
(+8 Def Rat) *+2 Dodge Rat* [12 Def Rat]

Weapon: The Sun Eater | +12 Def Rat | +18 Dodge Rat [+15 Agi]

Ranged: Barrel-Blade Longrifle [ +13 Agi ] (+8 Dodge Rat) (+8 Dodge Rat) *+3 Crit Rat*

Shield: Platinum Shield of the Valorous [3711 Armor | 83 Block | +33 Sta ] +24 Def Rat [12 block rat]

Gloves: Gauntlets of the Iron Maiden [793 Armor | +34 Sta ] +14 Def Rat | +15 Block Rat
(+8 Dodge Rat) (+8 Defense Rat) *+4 Block Rat* [+15 Agi]

Belt: Sha'tari Vindicator's Waistguard [655 Armor | +33 Sta ] +20 Def Rat | +24 Block Rat | +29 BlockVal

Legs: Warbringer Legguards [1163 Armor | +21 Str | +20 Agi | +49 Sta ] +29 Def Rat | +31 Dodge Rat [35 Sta | +12 Agi]

Boots: Boots of Elusion [872 Armor | +30 Sta ] +21 Def Rat | +36 Dodge Rat [+12 Agi]

Ring: Andormu's Tear | +10 Def Rat | +26 Dodge Rat | +15 Block Rat [+4 Str | +4 Agi | +4 Sta]
Ring2: Andormu's Tear | +10 Def Rat | +26 Dodge Rat | +15 Block Rat [+4 Str | +4 Agi | +4 Sta]

Trink: Figurine - Dawnstone Crab [+32 Def Rat ] (Use: Inc dodge rating by 125 for 20 sec) [Alt: Adamantite Figurine, increases armor by 1280 for 20 sec]
Trink2: Styleen's Impeding Scarab [+24 Block Rat | +20 Def Rat | +24 BlockVal]

(Enchants are in Brackets near the end, Gems are in Parentheses with the Set Bonus in Asterisks)
+8 Def Gem: Thick Dawnstone
+8 Dodge Gem: Subtle Living Ruby

Warbringer set bonus: check

---- Totals, including stats (I used a Tauren, since that's the warrior I'm leveling). Buffs are Blessing of Kings, Imp MOTW, Imp Fort)

374 defense rating == 156 Defense + 20 = 176 Defense
5% + 7.04% miss = 12.04%
5% + 5%(Talent) + 7.04% parry = 17.04% Parry
7.04% dodge + 9.24 + 14.66% = 30.94% Dodge
5% + 5%(Talent) + 7.04% block + 18.48% Block = 35.52%

277 Dodge Rat : 14.66% Dodge
0 Parry Rat: 0% Parry
146 Block Rat: 18.48% Block
BLOCKVAL: 83 + 86 = 169 + ~30 = 199 * Howevermuch Talent

TOTAL MITIGATION: 95.54

Flask of Fortification will push this up to 97.54
Against 73 will be -1.5% (evenly from block/miss/dodge/parry)
Elixir of Major Agility: +1.28% dodge
UnImproved GoA totem: +2.82

All together, with Flask: over 100% mitigation

Base Stats:

Str: 177 + 65 = 242 unbuffed base + 20(MOTW) = 262 * 1.1 (kings) * 1.1 (Vitality) = 317 [634 AP] [About 30 BlockVal?]
Agi: 87 + 145 = 232 unbuffed + 20(MOTW) 252 * 1.1(kings) = 277 = 9.24% dodge/554 Armor/8.31% Crit
Sta: 153 + 430 = 583 unbuffed base + 20(MOTW) + 103(Fort) + 71 (Kings) + 78(Vital) = 702 bonus stam = +7020 HP
Armor: 11233+554+459(MotW) = 12246 * 1.1 (Tough) = 13471
HP: 4585 + 7020 = 11605 * 1.05 (Tauren) = 12185 HP

Crit Rating: 3 [0.14% Chance to Crit]

I used rating and stat conversions accepted from this site: 30 agil -> 1% Dodge, 1 defense -> 0.04% miss/parry/block/dodge, 2.4 def rating -> 1 defense, 18.9 Dodge Rating -> 1% Dodge, 7.9 Block Rating -> 1% Block.
The only sad thing is you have to be both Enchanting and Jewelcrafting Profession for this to work, at least unless I missed something =)
I assumed 0% Base Dodge, 5% base parry and 5% base block, which I'm not completely sure about.

One thing I'm unsure about: the way Mark of the Wild Stat bonus stacks with potions. If I got that wrong, it's a little under 1% short.
Also, it's late, I might have made a math mistake.

So? What would this accomplish? Well, you save 5 rage every 6 seconds or so from not having to spam Shield Block(A talent point too!), not to mention the Cooldown if you don't time it correctly, and you have a ridiculous amount of avoidance. Coupled with hots and Earthen Shield, I suspect burstyness won't really be a problem (you're fighting against a 65% to take no damage, with a 35% to take -220, with not bad armor reduction)
Threat will probably be the biggest issue, along with tanking while you're building up to this level of avoidance.

zork · 02/16/07, 7:54 AM

the ring is a quest reward. you cannot have 2 of them, sorry ;)

base dodge is 0,75. night elfs have 1 more base dodge, should be 1,75 i guess.
35% block is huge...this can't be real :)

p.s. you can enchant rings?

other question is, when fighting against lvl 73 what values get reduced?

enemy miss will bei 4,40

but i think that our dodge and parry will be still the same.

Drauk · 02/16/07, 8:03 AM

Originally Posted by zork

p.s. you can enchant rings?

Yes, but that is self-only enchant.

v3x · 02/16/07, 10:23 AM

Ah, I was wondering why it wasn't unique.

I suppose replace one with a Elementium Band of the Sentry: 24 sta, 20 defense rating, 19 dodge rating. Not quite as good, but with the .75% base dodge you should still make it to 100%

sp00n · 02/16/07, 2:32 PM

Originally Posted by zork

other question is, when fighting against lvl 73 what values get reduced?

enemy miss will bei 4,40

but i think that our dodge and parry will be still the same.

Well the weapon skill of a level 73 is 15 above yours (if it's a "standard" mob and nothing like e.g. Patchwerk) and afaik the normal modifiers are applied to this increased weapon skill, being +hit, -dodge, -parry and +crit.

Now I *still* have no idea whatsoever what exactly weapon skill does after patch 2.0 and the changes Blizzard made to it, therefore it could be totally different than what I just told you.

Jirikius · 02/16/07, 3:26 PM

Originally Posted by v3x

I took the head and shoulders enchants he used even though I'm not sure where they're from.

The head enchant is from the Keepers of Time Quartermaster and it requires a revered reputation.

The shoulder enchant is from the Scryers (I'm exalted with them and I'm at work so I can't currently check to see if Aldor has the same enchant) and requires exalted reputation.

*Edit* Don't forget on the leggings you could also place a Clefthide Armor kit (+30 stamina and +10 agility) or a Nethercleft Armor kit (+35 stamina and +12 (maybe 15) agility).

tangent · 02/16/07, 5:59 PM

Aldor's version of the shoulder enchant is http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28889 (Permanently adds 15 dodge rating and 10 defense rating to a shoulder slot item. Does not stack with other enchantments for the selected equipment slot.)

Charsi · 04/24/07, 10:50 AM

I found this thread via [Warrior]Ratings Equivalence and feel it may be worth revisiting out of curiosity.

I looked at the numbers in the linked thread and came up with the following:

Assuming:

1% avoidance =

14.81 defense rat or 18.9 dodge rat or 31.54 parry rat or 7.88 block rat

Therefore:

1 blk rat = 0.1269 avoidance
1 def rat = 0.0675 avoidance
1 dodge rat = 0.0529 avoidance
1 parry rat = 0.0317 avoidance

Assuming 30 agility = 1% dodge: (is this correct?)

1 agi = 0.0333 avoidance

Shooting purely for avoidance to "beat the 85", some gear changes can be made. For example, Strength of the Untamed is beaten by the Steam Hinge Chain of Valor by about 0.2%, by my calculations. Panzar'thar may beat out Warbringer chest, I would have to sit down and run the numbers and possible socket choices. Wherever the socket bonus is irrelevant, defense gems should be socketed over dodge gems (for example - barrel bladed long-rifle) because it gets you slightly closer to beating the 85 than pure dodge.

Also, Ironscale War Cloak beats Devilshark Cape by 0.1%. Assuming i'm right. Figurine of the Colossus > Dawnstone Crab. Etc.

All the numbers are giving me a headache though. With the changes to flasks and elixirs next patch, 100% may no longer be possible to achieve.

zork · 04/24/07, 11:44 AM

some guy on the official warrior forum posted something about crushing immunity lately.
sec...here we have it
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...97563791&sid=1

as far as i know it is currently possible for dual wield mobs like Malchezaar.

dual wield means
24% enemy miss (5base + 19dual wield malus)

thus the enemy is 73 its only 23.4%.

well to get immune to crushings against lvl 73 we need 102.4% avoidance (cause of the higher weapon skill)... thats enemy miss, dodge, parry, block.

this sounds crazy but it is possible.

against dual wield mobs this is no problem at all, especially if you have a hunter and a shaman in group. scorpid sting is another 5% avoidance, the agility totem is 77agi, which is another 2.5% avoidance. if you take pots you can get mastery + agility to get sth like another 1.5% avoidance which means we can get 9% avoidance from buffs/debuffs. this does not include kings and motw.

lets take malchezaar phase 2, assumimg the tanking warrior has 510 defense.

malchezaar has 23.4 miss.
with a hunter in raid and our added miss through defense this becomes 23.4+5+6= 34.4 enemy miss
we have 510 defense which does mean we have 16 parry (5base+5talent+6defense)
if you sum this up you have 50.4 avoidance already!

so with dodge and block you only need another 52 to become immune. getting 30block and 22dodge or sth like that isn't that hard!

50.4+52=102.4...

you can try it out at malchezaar. do not use shield block and see if you get crushed (phase 2 only, phase 3 axes doen't count ><)

if you want to get immune against mobs without dual wield malus...damn this one is quite heavy. lets asume the best possible, agi totem, hunter and some pots and buffs (kings and stuff). so 10% avoidance from outside buffs...

a lvl 73 enemy has 4.4 base miss, + defense (510) this leads to 10.4 base miss
we got 16 parry and 40 block + 10 avoidance through outside buff/debuffs

thats 76.4 avoidance without dodge which is huge. you need another 26 dodge to get to 102.4 which may be possible with extraordinary gear.

you need very specific gear to make all this happen. but its nearly to full possible.

thus shield block wouldn't be needed any more cause you would mitigate the damage anyway.

but at the end of the day its worth nothing if the enemy parries your attack, gets the attack speed bonus for his next swing and kills you with 2 quick hits. gruul is a bad ass example for this one. he hits so hard that if he parries your attack this can mean death if you do not parry/dodge/miss the following attack.

enough theorycrafting

Highfather · 04/24/07, 5:09 PM

I am not sure what exactly is the point of this thread - "is the 85% beatable" or "is there any point to beat the 85%" ?

If the question is "is it beatable" then the answer is pretty simple - it is. I myself reach 85% combined miss/dodbe/parry/block vs 73 lvl mob/boss with zero buffs. While raid buffed (pre 2.10 flask, agi pot, GotW, agi totem, etc.) I reach the 100% checkpoint and am crushing immune without using the Shield Block ability.

Did some testing on the PTR with T5 and SSC/TK loot and it gets even easier (meaning with less raid buffs) to dig into the last 15% (if you're rich enough to buy the proper gems before copying your char on the PTR so you can socket the T5).

However here comes the question - what is better - more sta or more avoidance. I do not wish to dig into epic discussions as I've made my choice avoidance + mitigation over stamina (read blue gems here).

This pops up some interesting thoughts about T6. It looks like it will be easy to be crush immune without shield block ability up and at the same time maintain high stamina and even be able to place in some +hit gems. If you look carefully at the set the total avoidance increase comes from the +def increase rather than dodge/parry/block which are kept close to T5 (the total amount that is). This comes to show the value of +block rating. The latter allowes you to be crush immune without spending rage on shield block ability while keeping your avoidance (miss/dodge/parry) steady so you get hit and get rage ofc. The +hit can be compensated with gems however I doubt the parry (haste) buff will be enough to compensate the lack of Strength.

With the above said about T6 I am wondering when blizz tank gear developers will realise the importance of the tank self rage generation, somehow I doubt the haste from the extra parry or the rage you save from not clicking on shield block will compensate for the loss of raw strength in T6.