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04/23/07, 9:37 AM
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#1
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Great Tiger
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KTM Ranged DPS Calculations?
It's well known that a person standing at range healing or dpsing has a 30% buffer in aggro generated before the mob will change targets... strangely, though, a shadow priest in my guild sent me a tell saying something to the effect of "dude wtf are you talking about this 30% aggro buffer? I pulled after 101%."
Now the question being posed: Does KTM show exact threat output, or modified threat output? Meaning: does it realize someone's standing at range and adjust their threat % accordingly such that when they hit 100% on the meter, in actuality they're @ 130% of the current aggro target? Or... would you actually see a 130% mark before a person is supposed to have pulled?
The aggro gain happened during Hydross, and I'm personally wanting to think that resetting aggro on transitions messed up the meter, but I'd like some more KTM savvy people to back my claims. :]
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04/23/07, 9:41 AM
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#2
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Mod
Gnome Monk
Azjol-Nerub (EU)
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I'm pretty certain you should be at 130% aggro on KTM before you pull aggro when you're at range, under the assumption that KTM is completely and utterly accurate (Which isn't a smart assumption to make).
As to why I'm certain, that's easier to work with than having to have the numbers on KTM change dynamically depending on what range you're standing at.
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04/23/07, 9:44 AM
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#3
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Great Tiger
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Originally Posted by Chicken
I'm pretty certain you should be at 130% aggro on KTM before you pull aggro when you're at range, under the assumption that KTM is completely and utterly accurate (Which isn't a smart assumption to make).
As to why I'm certain, that's easier to work with than having to have the numbers on KTM change dynamically depending on what range you're standing at.
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This is essentially how I was looking at it... I didn't think Kenco would have put in the extra work of writing range checking code.
Have you seen a ranged dps sitting at 115% or so before on a non-aggro-modifying boss? (Which I think displays the ranged person @ 100% and the tank @ something ~85-90 or whatever % 100/115 comes out to be :P)
Last edited by Cel : 04/23/07 at 10:51 AM.
Reason: I type "actually" too much.
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04/23/07, 9:46 AM
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#4
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Von Kaiser
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It doesn't perform a modifier for people at range like you describe. Aggro Gain bar is 130% when you are at range.
Shadow priest threat isn't great on KTM atm. It's probably due to VE healing or mana gain, and interaction with silent resolve. Also Hydross threat wipes would contribute small inaccuracies of their own.
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04/23/07, 9:48 AM
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#5
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Great Tiger
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Originally Posted by Kenco
It doesn't perform a modifier for people at range like you describe. Aggro Gain bar is 130% when you are at range.
Shadow priest threat isn't great on KTM atm. It's probably due to VE healing or mana gain, and interaction with silent resolve. Also Hydross threat wipes would contribute small inaccuracies of their own.
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Thanks very much... I'll pass along the word. 
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04/23/07, 10:02 AM
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#6
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Bald Bull
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KTM's percentage is your actual threat, not your threat relative to when you'll pull aggro. Newer beta versions have a handy aggro gain bar which automatically switches between 110% and 130% depending on whether or not you're in melee range.
There are plenty of bosses where going over 100% will result in getting aggro, though. Nightbane, for example, briefly detargets the tank when he fears (even with fear ward), and so I consistently pull aggro if I'm at all above the tank. Hydross may be similar -- I don't know if any research has been done on RSTS and aggro, but it seems plausible to me that when he switches targets for Water Tomb he could be switching to the highest threat person, rather than the previous target.
Last edited by Shalas : 04/23/07 at 10:14 AM.
Reason: typos
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04/23/07, 10:08 AM
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#7
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Piston Honda
Human Rogue
Shadowsong (EU)
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Originally Posted by Shalas
There are plenty of bosses where going over 100% will result in getting aggro, though. Nightbane, for example, briefly detargets the tank when he fears (even with fear ward), and so I consistantly pull aggro if I'm at all above the tank. Hydross may be similar -- I don't know if any research has been done on RSTS and aggro, but it seems plausible to me that when he switches targets for Water Tomb he could be switching to the highest threat person, rather than the previous taret.
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This agrees with my experience on the matter too, aggro doesn't seem to be constantly reevaluated, but when it is - it bases the calculations on everyone in the raid at that moment in time, regardless of the melee/ranged threshold.
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04/23/07, 10:46 AM
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#8
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Piston Honda
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130% aggro ceilings are fairly artificial, these days. Shadowpriests, locks, and mages alike (I've never seen our hunters competing with MT threat) have all pulled aggro just after the 100% threshold. As alluded to, our MT/RL and those DPS have come to a similar conclusion that mobs are not reacquiring previous MT after RSTS abilities. Hydross, Tidewalker, and Gruul are all culprit of chasing ranged after RSTS hits.
And as much as I'd love to believe VE/VT threat is misunderstood and miscalculated. After doing Void Reaver (modified KTM) and hugging the aggro ceiling, reported VE/VT values are fairly accurate.
I also have a theory that Shadowpriests are more likely to be victim of the phenomenon because of the number of actions performed per second.
Long story short, it's been my guilds experience that passing #1 threat is, at best, gambling with your raid's success. 100% is the cap.
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04/23/07, 10:50 AM
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#9
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Great Tiger
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What exactly does RSTS stand for? I know it means an ability that's targetted on someone that's not the tank, more or less, but I never understood what the acronym meant.
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04/23/07, 10:54 AM
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#10
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Von Kaiser
Gnome Warlock
Black Dragonflight
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Random Secondary Target System
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The Random Secondary Target System (RSTS) is a system deployed by Blizzard to make certain encounters harder and more challenging. The system will target someone in a party or raid but the target is never the player who is highest on the aggro list.
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04/23/07, 11:13 AM
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#11
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Don Flamenco
Tauren Death Knight
Malfurion
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If you think that is strange, last night's Prince in Karazhan decided to come over to the ranged group and slap a mage who was at 80% of tank's threat and then it went back to the tank.
I have never seen this behavior in KT.
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Last night was pessimistic skydive in a foolish narcotic shell
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04/23/07, 11:39 AM
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#12
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Great Tiger
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KTM is usually spot-on, but last night on Vashj, I noticed some . . . inconsistencies. I don't want to go into any more detail, but has anyone else noticed odd ranged aggro behavior on this fight?
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04/24/07, 4:56 AM
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#13
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Von Kaiser
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Originally Posted by Thezilch
And as much as I'd love to believe VE/VT threat is misunderstood and miscalculated. After doing Void Reaver (modified KTM) and hugging the aggro ceiling, reported VE/VT values are fairly accurate.
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BTW, what's Void Reaver's ability called, is it "Knockback"?
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04/24/07, 8:17 AM
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#14
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Piston Honda
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Originally Posted by Kenco
BTW, what's Void Reaver's ability called, is it "Knockback"?
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Knock Away (like Onyxia), which we worked out to be 75% redux (like Onyxia) after using the default 50%. Anyone else having modified the multiplier on Void Reaver, feel free to chime in otherwise.
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