KTM was never the Finger of God itself. Omen is as good as it can be.

When I'm healing in raids when I don't have to do any silly Judgements, I'm almost always targetting the tank. It might just be me, but it'd be nice to see global threat, or possibly the threat of target's target even, rather than seeing a big pink bar.

That being said, Omen is amazing.

I just tested this with a warlock.

1) Warlock Lifetaps to low HP before combat
2) Warlock bodypulls mob
3) Warlock fears mob (takes no other action)
4) I heal warlock to full
5) Mob goes straight for warlock when fear breaks

My experiences in Blood Furnace at the Waves in the Broggok event (im doing BF on heroic every day for the leather shoulder drop of the end boss atm.) where we use fear alot also contradicts your explanation. I mean no offense, but you will need to shove up some hard evidence to feared mobs catching healer agro, they have NEVER done so in my experiences as tank. It usually goes like this:
1) I swipe once for minimal agro when a wave breaks out
2) Warlocks find a fear target instantly after
3) I get heals
4) Mobs that break fear go for me

The reason you are getting agro is that you are landing heals in the time the mob is not crowd controlled. Fear might break and need to be reapplied, traps DO break and will certainly need to be reapplied.

Edit: Added FRAPS for the proof of concept
AgroTest.avi

I Agree,

Also in situation like moroes, some of our guild priests like to have target on their shackle targets and that way they have no idea about threat generally. So I think some optional global-threat and/or specific set target threat view could be usefull for healers.

There's no way to know what kind of talents/enchants people have and iirc, some skills dont even show up in the party combatlog (or so?).

Just to complete my picture of the fear mechanic:
Healing while a mob is feared doesn't add to the threat value, but does beating the mob do?
I.e. is the mob completely immune to threat generating abilities while being feared or only to healing aggro?

Thats the default I believe.

From reading this thread it appears that there's two selling points to using Omen over KTM:

a) Performance

Is there still a substantial performance edge even with all these fancy graphic displays I'm seeing show up in later pages of the thread?

Also, if Omen has to parse KTM data from other people who haven't switched yet, does the peformance edge disappear, or is it unaffected by having to parse KTM data?

b) Multimob threat lists

Do these still work even if you're having to parse some KTM data?


Additional question: I don't think I've seen it said for sure, but it's a long thread. Does Omen pick up all mob threat wipes, special aggro abilities etc in raids, at least for Kara and SSC?

The tests above show that it is immune to non-direct aggro generating sources (such as healing) - I was wrong. However, the latest major patch had a change to the mechanics of taunt such that a mob that is currently CCd in some form, when taunted, *does* gain threat.

Has anyone done any testing to determine what form this takes, and how reliable it is? I don't have a class with a taunt - druids, paladins, and warriors, unite!

Is there an option somewhere that I'm missing? Perhaps it's a bug, because with r39531 it is showing up each time I zone into an arena.

My best guess is that the person the mob will attack AFTER it breaks fear is the one whos agro counts.


Only indirect agro abilities. Beating the mob still generates agro, the same applies to non-damage agro abilities like Fearie Fire etc. i believe.

This is what my previous post was about.
I think would be good if there's an option to show only GLOBAL threat dispate of what you are targetting.

Thanks
Luca

Totally off topic derail here but its amazing that this seems to be the prevalent thought among horde paladins - "Judgments? Who needs em!"

I'm Alliance and in ~2 years of raiding I've rarely seen Judgements kept up on anything. I'm guessing there is a reason but I've never even looked into how they even work.

as a healer i dont care how much aggro i have on my target or on the globalthreat list, what i do care about is a list of each known mob iam in combat with. the idea is a bit like a threatmeter reverse. instead of showing the threat of 10 people on one target, show me the 10mobs i am most likely to pull aggro.
eg:
mob threat perc
Kael'thas Sunstrider 120,1k 71%
haladred the Darkener 25.4k 69%
Lord Sanguinar 40,6k 50%
Grand Astromancer Capernian 123,4k 30%
....

i think you get the idea.

Is heal aggro something which is really a problem in current encounters ? I don't remember having ever pulled aggro on any named mob due to healing aggro. More specifically I don't remember a situation where I could have kept tabs on a Threat meter and see that I was going to pull aggro, healing can't stop because of aggro...
The reason why Threatmeters are so popular among DPS people is that they have the time necessary to make a conscious decision on whether they could maybe go lighter on the DPS, as a healer I need to get a big AGGRO warning when some mob is targetting me but I won't be able to act in a timely fashion according to a bunch of colored bars when I'm trying at the same time to keep focused on the other green bars I'm supposed to fill...
Replacing AGGRO with "AGGRO RISK" when I'm on the brink of getting aggro on one of the targets may be the only information I could do something about...

well healing aggro on boss fights is not issue normally, but healers still want to see what is the situation also healer might be leader of raid and wants to see what others are doing during fights.

Also it is not uncommon that in for example in heroic dungeons there is mob loose and in that situation view that shows aggro/mob for healers could be great so they have more reaction time and they can maybe do something to reduce aggro before aggro gain.

Nice idea, but only usefull if your party/raid can actually survive to you stop healing (or healing less than you could).
Anyway the one who's tanking should be able to see you as #2 on the list and that you are going to reach him, so he can react to save you.

As dpsers you can stop dps and than start lightly. As healer you most likely can't stop healing, and probably you can't heal less either (if you can, either you are overhaling or your party/raid has too many healers). This is the way I see it.

s/amazing/idiotic.

Have any other spriests seen weird TPS numbers (by weird I mean very, very high, like, 3k-30k high)? For me it *seems* like it occurs around the time I shadowfiend, and I'm trying to figure out if that's really the defining moment.

(Absolute threat seems to hold correct, though.)

r39662 | antiarc | 2007-06-12 22:05:05 -0400 (Tue, 12 Jun 2007) | 1 line
Threat-1.0: Removed the startup message. Threat-1.0 declared to have reached stable beta status

It's Threat and not Omen, but I guess that's what you wanted to know.

Are we factoring in that healing threat is distributed to all the mobs? In my experience in Shattered Halls, usually after a fear I see a couple mobs making a beeline straight for me.

Perhaps the mechanic of each fear are slightly different? I mean, surely intimidating shout is different from psychic scream/howl of terror, but are psychic scream and howl of terror different from each other? fear vs. psychic scream vs. howl of terror vs. intimidating shout. Btw, is turn undead still a nature spell? =p

Well, there are other methods too.

For instance, Prayer of Mending has different threat mechanics from normal heals. Power Word: Shield generates less threat too. Now, normally, I wouldn't use something like Power Word: Shield unless its like a mortal-strike mob or something, because its mana-prohibitive, but if aggreo sensitivity is an issue, then its more important for me to sacrifice mana to reduce my threat.

Also, in a situation like that, if a healer is healing too much, perhaps its time for an off-healer to throw in an extra spot heal or two. My raid leader has been known to ask feral druids to shift out and throw some heals before going back into feral form. Sure, their mana pool is limited, but they can do it.