Omen - Ace Threat Meter - Page 26

Fireye · 06/14/07, 5:44 PM

Antiarc,

I've switched over to Omen/Threat-1.0 as my sole threat meter (Horde Warlock, Affliction/Destruction), and I must say I do enjoy it. One of the few things interface-wise I'd like to see, is the ability to resize individual columns. I'm fairly sure this isn't possible as of yet.

How are you dealing with multiple mob of the same name situations? I know DoTimer is doing a preeeetty decent job of that, and with the current builds of Threat-1.0 and omen, it doesn't seem to be tracking it quite properly.

manly · 06/14/07, 5:48 PM

It worked great yesterday in BT, although the void reavers values are still off, the de-aggro is higher than what is being show by a considerable margin. I know it is not your fault for that, since no mod has eveer correctly shown threat for void-reaver. I know at around 95%-ish of the threat the MT had a mage pulled aggro (I can get the full parse if needed, but recomputing the threat from a log is probably wayy too much hassle to bother).

Other than that everything was relatively smooth. Multi-mob threat meters was godsent, I can't recall the amount of times where my sheep finally gets to be tanked and I had no real idea of what the threat the tank had on it. We did run through 2 minor annoyance; one of them seems unspecific to Omen itself -- I know that after running WAU we had a few people not show up on threat meters, the affected players ran WAU again 30 min later and it was fixed. Apparently someone committed something in SVN (I guess thats what ace uses) and it got reverted in between. The other is a small UI glitch that I was experiencing (can't speak for others, I do not know if they were affected); from time to time the list of threats would just clear up and come back up a second later. Maybe this is because some players still use KTM or something? Well, in any case the values were still shown, so it didnt matter much.

Antiarc · 06/14/07, 5:54 PM

Fireye: You can move columns around/resize them - Omen menu -> Display -> Columns -> Pick a column -> Offset slider. Ugly, but it'll do the job and you shouldn't need to move them around a lot.

Multiple mobs get rolled into one threat pool for a number of reasons already covered about 26 times in this thread

Manly: If we can get a precise deaggro value for Void Reaver (I'd heard 25%?) then it's as simple as changing a float in the void reaver module. I committed a fix for the threat clear/repopulate today, though.

Fireye · 06/14/07, 6:02 PM

Thanks Antiarc! Wonderful job developing this, along with Sanity (Which has indeed saved my sanity). Hurrah for Cenarion Circle!

Apate · 06/14/07, 6:27 PM

Originally Posted by Fireye

Antiarc,

I've switched over to Omen/Threat-1.0 as my sole threat meter (Horde Warlock, Affliction/Destruction), and I must say I do enjoy it. One of the few things interface-wise I'd like to see, is the ability to resize individual columns. I'm fairly sure this isn't possible as of yet.

How are you dealing with multiple mob of the same name situations? I know DoTimer is doing a preeeetty decent job of that, and with the current builds of Threat-1.0 and omen, it doesn't seem to be tracking it quite properly.

Don't take this as rude, but DoTimer has been mentioned repeatedly in this thread (11 posts in 26 pages http://elitistjerks.com/search.php?searchid=176438 )

sasukekun · 06/14/07, 6:57 PM

Not sure if it was mentioned yet, but a few times I've had feign death resist, it's still reset my threat.

♦ Asgorath · 06/14/07, 7:00 PM

Tip: Use the "Search this Thread" tool and search for DoTimer. That was the mistake I made, used the wrong kind of search.

demongr · 06/14/07, 7:29 PM

hello again antiarc

i tested the threat values and they proved right indeed
Thanks for the reply and sorry to disturb

maybe it was something that caused it, maybe cos i had KTM running at the same time, dont know... i use alot of addons so something may have cramped up the calculation

Keep up the good work

dr_AllCOM3 · 06/14/07, 7:37 PM

hydross worked good, sometimes someone was at the top with wrong values.
void was ok first and then totally off. i was first and survived, as a fury

Nemaa · 06/14/07, 7:43 PM

Hello again! It's nice to see the new features!

One of our druids installed threat1.0. He does not use a lot of addons, from ace addons he uses only Ag_unitframes. He said he had a lot of interface lua errors during combat, referring some kind of missing addons. I think he said it was Babble-Spell or Babble-something. I think it's a lib for translating different localization installations? He has enGB client. He deleted threat and installed omen and it worked fine for him.

Antiarc · 06/14/07, 8:34 PM

Babble or AceLocale or something got borked hardcore last night. It's back to normal now.

Feign Death and Soulshatter resists are still clearing threat right now - I should have this resolved soon, though.

Zanthor · 06/14/07, 10:29 PM

not seeing my healers... 39812, 39955 Omen/Threat respectively.

Morrigan · 06/15/07, 1:13 AM

Since nobody except Roywyn has replied to my question concerning Hamstring extra threat, I decided to run some tests on Terokkarantular (the snare immune elite mob in Terokkar) to prove that Hamstring has an additional threat component associated with it.

So it was me and a fellow druid, untalented except for Feral Instinct (+15% threat in bear form) to make sure that the testing is not skewed/getting complicated by things like rage gain procs or LotP heals.

You can find the combatlog from one of my tests here, untrimmed up to the point where I pulled aggro. A WWS report is also available.

In this fight, the druid did nothing but auto-attacks for a total of 5876 damage. He then stopped attacking the mob and I started hitting it with hamstrings (highest rank ofc) until aggro gain. As you can see in the WWS, I did 9191 damage to the mob, including the damage component of hamstring.

Considering the appropriate threat modifiers, the druid produced 5876 * 1.3 * 1.15 = 8784.62 threat, unless I'm mistaken. So at the point where he stopped attacking, I had to overcome 8784.62 * 1.1 = 9663.082 threat to pull aggro, however, my attacks only produced 9191 * 0.8 = 7352.8 threat.

As a conclusion, Hamstring does infact have an extra threat component (even when the particular creature is immune to its debuff), what never has been accounted for in KTM and hopefully will be included in Omen/Threat.

Unfortunately, it is not apparent from my test what the exact bonus threat value is, but since other people already claim to have determined it, the aforementioned 181 (see http://www.wowwiki.com/Hamstring) seem to at least fit my results.

Antiarc · 06/15/07, 2:34 AM

Hamstring has been added to the warrior module as 181 threat at rank 4, linearly interpolated for ranks 1-3 for now.

Jpwirtz · 06/15/07, 3:13 AM

Aggro reduction for Void Reaver in TK should be changed from a 25% reduction to a 30% reduction. I've reviewed the threatmeters in some frapsed footage and this should be pretty accruate although only more testing will tell for sure.

Antiarc · 06/15/07, 4:02 AM

Can I get a second confirmation of 30% before I change it? Due to problems with people not being synched up, I want to be careful about changing values like that.

Jpwirtz · 06/15/07, 4:30 AM

Originally Posted by Antiarc

Can I get a second confirmation of 30% before I change it? Due to problems with people not being synched up, I want to be careful about changing values like that.

Here's the data i used if you want to double check it. I was using KTM when i frapsed this footage and I am the OT that's second on aggro.

-MT has 85.4k of threat when the first knock-back of the fight lands.
-At that time I'm sitting at 58.6k threat.
-The knock-back lands on the MT and KTM show's him getting a 50% aggro reduction which
drops him down to 43.8k threat.
-At that time I have 59.2k threat, yet the MT maintains aggro on void reaver.
-According to my calculations, the most he could've reduced the MT's aggro without him losing it to me would be around 37%. So since ppl are reporting his aggro reduction to be more than 25%, it's likely either 30% or 35%.

Xerophyte · 06/15/07, 8:13 AM

Originally Posted by Morrigan

In this fight, the druid did nothing but auto-attacks for a total of 5876 damage. He then stopped attacking the mob and I started hitting it with hamstrings (highest rank ofc) until aggro gain. As you can see in the WWS, I did 9191 damage to the mob, including the damage component of hamstring.

Considering the appropriate threat modifiers, the druid produced 5876 * 1.3 * 1.15 = 8784.62 threat, unless I'm mistaken. So at the point where he stopped attacking, I had to overcome 8784.62 * 1.1 = 9663.082 threat to pull aggro, however, my attacks only produced 9191 * 0.8 = 7352.8 threat.

Actually, I think we do have all the data needed in the log. Conventional wisdom - and threatlib, far as I can tell from the code - holds that Feral Instinct is additive to the stance bonus so the druid produced 5876 * (1.3 + .15 ) threat, and the difference between your damage threat and his melee aggro gain threshhold is 5876 * (1.3 + .15 ) * 1.1 - 9191 * .8 = 2020 threat. You're logged as hitting the mob with Hamstring 15 times. Fortuitously the only hit on the mob after the last hit on the druid but before aggro is your 15th Hamstring - it's possible the threat from this attack was excessive but we at least have a lower bound of 2020/15/0.8 = 168 threat/Hamstring and an upper bound of 2020/14/0.8 = 180 threat/Hamstring.

tedv · 06/15/07, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by Xerophyte

Actually, I think we do have all the data needed in the log. Conventional wisdom - and threatlib, far as I can tell from the code - holds that Feral Instinct is additive to the stance bonus so the druid produced 5876 * (1.3 + .15 ) threat, and the difference between your damage threat and his melee aggro gain threshhold is 5876 * (1.3 + .15 ) * 1.1 - 9191 * .8 = 2020 threat. You're logged as hitting the mob with Hamstring 15 times. Fortuitously the only hit on the mob after the last hit on the druid but before aggro is your 15th Hamstring - it's possible the threat from this attack was excessive but we at least have a lower bound of 2020/15/0.8 = 168 threat/Hamstring and an upper bound of 2020/14/0.8 = 180 threat/Hamstring.

I'm pretty sure the threat factors are multiplicative, not additive. (As a general rule of thumb, increase by +X is added and increase by X% is multiplied. But blizzard is not always consistant.) So the actual threat difference is 2142. That puts the upper bound at 191 threat and the lower bound at 178 threat, and 181 is still in the range. Would need a another few data tests to determine if 181 is in fact the actual number.

Antiarc · 06/15/07, 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by tedv

I'm pretty sure the threat factors are multiplicative, not additive. (As a general rule of thumb, increase by +X is added and increase by X% is multiplied. But blizzard is not always consistant.) So the actual threat difference is 2142. That puts the upper bound at 191 threat and the lower bound at 178 threat, and 181 is still in the range. Would need a another few data tests to determine if 181 is in fact the actual number.

Feral Instinct is the odd man out for threat mechanics - it is indeed additive. Don't ask me why.

♦ s4dfish · 06/15/07, 12:46 PM

Has a threat modifier been determined for the pet skill Screach? If not how can I help determine the value?

woo-haa · 06/15/07, 12:47 PM

Are there any known problems on the Karathress fight in SSC? Having checked the fraps from our Shaman tank (Chopsuey) I can see that the Shaman's threat list has the Priest's tank (Nelinda) listed, as well as people doing DPS on the Hunter (we kill Hunter, Shaman then Priest). Further on, our Karathress tank died while killing the priest and got picked up by Chopsuey. At that point Karathress' threat list had Nelinda at the top. Only the Priest's threat list seemed correct.

Antiarc · 06/15/07, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by s4dfish

Has a threat modifier been determined for the pet skill Screach? If not how can I help determine the value?

Not yet, and I would love it if you could do so!

The basic procedure is to have your pet screech a few times, and note any damage they do. Make sure other skills, such as Dive and Growl are off.

Now, you melee the enemy (preferably with no weapon for smaller hits) until you pull aggro. Take your damage done, divide by 1.1, subtract the pet's damage done, and then divide the remainder by the number of times the pet screeched. This should be an approximate threat value for the pet, given that rank of Screech, though that doesn't consider pet AP scaling. If you want to be really thorough, then do that test with an unbuffed pet, then buff it by using Aspect of the Hawk and having a paladin or warrior cast Might or Battle Shout on the pet, then test it again to see if you end up with a significantly different value - if so, we may have a scaling skill on our hands.

As I understand it, Screech is single target damage + AOE debuff, so you may need to calculate its threat as:

[(your damage / 1.1) - (pet's non-Screech damage) - (pet's Screech damage)] / number of times screeched = Debuff threat per application for that rank of Screech. With that info, I shoul hopefully be able to just use the same mechanism I use for Demoralizing Shout et al, and properly apply AOE threat from the screech.

Antiarc · 06/15/07, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by woo-haa

Are there any known problems on the Karathress fight in SSC? Having checked the fraps from our Shaman tank (Chopsuey) I can see that the Shaman's threat list has the Priest's tank (Nelinda) listed, as well as people doing DPS on the Hunter (we kill Hunter, Shaman then Priest). Further on, our Karathress tank died while killing the priest and got picked up by Chopsuey. At that point Karathress' threat list had Nelinda at the top. Only the Priest's threat list seemed correct.

I don't think we even have a Karathress module running. However, anyone generating global threat should show up on all mobs in the encounter - heals, rage gains, etc. Not a lot, but some. If you can provide screenshots explaining the discrepancy, I might be able to explain it and/or identify any problems more easily.

It's also possible people were just out of date. There are lots of bugs being fixed rather rapidly, so if they hadn't updated in the last few hours, I make no guarantees.

roq · 06/15/07, 1:55 PM

I haven't updated in awhile, but i was wondering have you added a feature to disable the mini map button? I didn't notice it last time looked for it.