Some related idea (that I already posted earlier in this thread but with a completely differenct context).
Some sort of 'snapshot' when there is a change in the aggro holder, maybe usable via a debug/developer switch. It would save all threat values in the savedvariables file to examine later, maybe out of game first, or even within the game, via the menu (show snapshots of last fight or whatever).
Whenever there is a change in the aggro holder, one could examine how the threat table looked like when somebody pulled aggro.
Of course this could have some issues with secondary skills, where the aggro doesn't really change but theres just a spell cast on another player than the tank, which happens quite often.

My first idea was when I got killed by Hydross altough KTM showed my as #3 (or so) and right after me a meleeing paladin.

Now my idea is that these snapshots could be used to find out such abilities like knockback.
Set the multiplier to 1 (so 0% reduction) and let two player's beat on the mob, the tank and some DPS class. When the knockback happens, just stop tanking and let the DPS (or even the healer) draw aggro.
Thinking about it, this could also be done with the current implementation, but would require a raid willing to do so.
But with the snapshot feature, your raid could proceed as normal and IF the tank looses aggro, you would have a snapshot of the threat table and could compare the tank's threat to the 2nd on the list when he got aggro.

The only flaw besides integration into the mod currently is that you would have to know the number of knockbacks before the aggro switch happened.

Oh wow. That's amazing. I didn't really see a reason to install Aloft before, but that would be tremendously useful. Thanks for pointing that out.

Our raid leader packaged threat into the latest "Required Mods" on our website and the meters were just nutty last night. I should fraps it just to show how the bars were jumping around like crazy, and not giving a very good indicator of threat at all. This was on trash before Azgelor, Azgelor himself, and Archimonde attempts, so it has nothing to do with boss modules or abilities.

At one point last night I had a similar issue. Tank (druid) would show at 31k threat, then 15k threat, then back to the proper (now) 31.5k threat within a second.

Noticed someone (a warlock) was running a really old version, but that shouldn't throw off the tank, should it?

I was having the same issue yesterday, however, i noticed it seemed to only occur for the #1 threat player.

It's not only the top aggroholder.
I had 2 issues with hopping bars yesterday in Karazhan:

-all one or two seconds it seemed like it switched threat between the global threat list and the actual target threat. First time it happened was at Attumen, after the transition with Midnight. After the aggro reset several people hopped from near bottom with 1-5k threat to the top with 30k+ threat and back to bottom. Every second. Very annoying.

-One mob had aggro to our Offtank, but the MT had slight more threat. That was causing the you-get-aggro-Bar always switching from MT to Offtank very very often and rescaling all bars. Don't know what to do, but it was very diffivult to read the actual order.

And a third issue:
On some mobs I could only see me in Omen - and other Omen users didn't see me. Could have been a localisation problem - as I (and few others) am running a differnt locale than my party.

As said - could all be related to different locals and KTM, as several users had KTM installed.
First I thought it could be problem from Threat2KTM, but disabling it had no results.
What was seen from people using Omen and KTM was, that it switched between the value from Omen and perhaps the value from KTM - therefore my assumption to global threat.

It was definitely over calculating the threat reduction in the revision that I had going last night at ~10 PM EST. I believe it was 40993. The tanks were still holding aggro but were so far down the threat list that all three didn't even show up on the meter and our Fury warrior didn't pull until he had almost 150% of the supposed threat (VR was at 2% by then).

Maybe it's possible that the knock away is a flat reduction instead of a percentage? It just seems odd to me that 30% seems too low for some people and 25% seems too high. The only variable that I can think of that would account for that would be TPS generation by a tank, either that or just poor observation on the part of people watching when they pull/don't pull on the meter.

This is exactly what was happening; I think I fixed it in my Omen commit last night.

I'll check out the other issues, but I'm hoping that they were artifacts of the first issue.

This sounds very much like a localization problem. However, Omen does transparent localization of mob names to account for that; if it's not working, then that would explain this particular issue.

I reverted the default to 0.75 yesterday, as it seems to be more accurate than 30%, easily. I'm wondering if it's as low as something as 20%.

Certainly!

As far as determining Void Reaver threat, I have a logger included in Threat that logs damage done and casts by your party. I'll extend that to include casts done by enemies, which should let us do postmortem analysis on the fight.

To start the logger, use /tlog start - when you have threat data to examine, use /tlog report, which will pop up a window that you can select/ctrl-a/ctrl-c/paste into a text editor. /tlog stop then stops logging. Enemy casts aren't logged right now, but I'll try to add those to it.

We'll check this too -- we had it happen on our Void Reaver kill last night. We had three tanks, and #2 and #3 kept jumping all over the map. First they'd be 2/3, then they'd be 10/20, then random things, and every 2 or 3 seconds, it jumped.

Aside from that, the commit of last evening around 5:30 PDT did seem to represent the knockback reasonably accurately. We only had one aggro pull the entire evening, when a warlock passed the *first* tank, and the knockback occurred. He just shattered as it turned for him, and it immediately returned to the first tank.

Very much appreciate all the work you're putting into this -- we're moving the entire guild over to it now, and look forward to the first "gold" release.

Hum I'm having errors today (updated this morning and right now, still the same) :

[2007/06/21 19:12:21-1177-x1]: Omen\Omen.lua:345: unexpected symbol near ','

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[2007/06/21 19:12:21-1177-x1]: Omen\OmenDisplay.lua:30: unexpected symbol near ','

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[2007/06/21 19:12:21-1177-x1]: Omen\OmenMenu.lua:85: attempt to index global 'Omen' (a nil value)

---

I deactivated Recount (which seems very buggy too, it pops with test bars that I can't seem to get rid of and makes a lua error like every second), I still have those 3 and of course Omen doesn't show up. Any idea ?

Update, if you can. I'm doing some drycode work and committed a couple of typos.

Might that also relate to this?

Give me a bit to update the logger; I need to include buff and stance data as well before it's ready for raid testing, I believe.

We were having the same problems, with all 25 of us using whatever was on wowace.com/files as of around 7:45 CT last night.

The crazy fast jumping of bars combined with wildly inaccurate TPS numbers is causing a lot of concern within the guild. I have my TPS update frequency set to 1.5s and yet there were times when it'd report that tanks would be generating 1400 tps on SSC trash mobs. That seems unlikely.

Furthermore, Doom Lord Kazzak was up and while Omen had myself (fury) and a rogue way behind on threat, the rogue pulled Kazzak about 45 seconds into combat, and I pulled pretty much right after the rogue died. (At that point he was doing about 1200 DPS and I was doing around 1100.) But Omen never even gave us a hint we were that close on threat.

So right now we have some reservations about the reliability of Threat + Omen. I'm not sure what to say to help, just that KTM is still very much trusted.

The bars jumping around should be fixed; the TPS numbers still need some work, admittedly. I got them mostly-working and moved on to other things.

Kazzak's a bit worrying though. Who was your MT - druid, warrior, paladin? What was their spec? My main's a rogue, and I've found rogue threat to be about dead-on synched with KTM, so I'm not thinking that's the problem; rather, the tank's threat was being over-reported, either by Threat or Omen. If it was a druid tank, then it's entirely possible that it was an Omen display issue that I fixed last night; warrior and paladin tanks would have the same problem, but likely to a lesser degree.

I really, really appreciate you trying it out and giving me an update on it. My goal, obviously, is to make it as reliable as possible and all the info I can get will help towards that end.

(FWIW, I haven't recommended to my tanks that they stop running KTM just yet - I run Threat and KTM side-by-side myself, till I'm confident that Threat is providing proper numbers)

MT is a full prot spec warrior.

We'll continue using nightly builds of Omen/Threat (the entire guild updates typically around 7:30 CT) alongside KTM. We're very impressed and pleased with the progress we're seeing in Omen and we're all looking forward to it reaching a level of stability, maturity and reliability that KTM has offered.

When I do that, I'll be making an official release announcement and stamping it 1.0 non-beta.

Where did the option to turn off bar animation go? Animations are useles to me, so I would rather have them turned off.

It should be in Skins -> Skin Settings

What exactly are bar "animations" anyway?

Smooth transitions between one value and another rather than having the bar just refresh at your new threat value.

It's rather apparent early on in a fight because the animations will be large enough to actually see (on a multi-tank fight, watch the threat on Tank N vs Tank 1; on a single tank fight, watch the DPS when they start to really open up).

When you do officially release Threat1.0, it would be great if new changes could be done in a different branch or in some sort of ThreatBeta addon. I realize that updating from svn is not guaranteed to work properly but WoWACEUpdater is simply the only way to get my guild to reliably update.

Great work btw, better in most ways than KTM.